13 hours ago, Rumar said:

Cover needs to scale with the attack, not the target.

It doesn't do that in 40k. In that game it's always scaled with the target in the form of armor saves. More dice = more chances to fail the armor save.

1 hour ago, VanorDM said:

It doesn't do that in 40k. In that game it's always scaled with the target in the form of armor saves. More dice = more chances to fail the armor save.

Yes it does. Cover does not diminish proportionally with more attack dice. That said, even Legion with flawed cover is head and shoulder above 40k. That's why I should hate to see Legion going the way of X-Wing which started out absolutely brilliant and now the only recognizable thing left after wave 12 is that it still has fix-the-X-wing-threads.

1 hour ago, Undeadguy said:

Once again, defense dice scales with attacks. For every successful hit after cover is considered, you get a defense die. You cancel a hit 1:1. If you have 5 hits coming in, you roll 5 defense dice. If you have 2 hits coming in and stand in heavy cover, you have 0 hits. If you have 6 hits and stand in heavy cover, you have 4 hits coming and roll 4 defense dice. Cancel hit 1:1.

Your point being? There is no connection whatsoever between cover on one hand and attack and defence dice on the other hand, i. e. cover does not scale.

6 minutes ago, Rumar said:

Your point being? There is no connection whatsoever between cover on one hand and attack and defence dice on the other hand, i. e. cover does not scale.

Why would cover scale? Defense dice already do. That's my point. 2 scaling defensive factors would make it quite hard to kill something.

1 minute ago, Undeadguy said:

Why would cover scale? Defense dice already do. That's my point. 2 scaling defensive factors would make it quite hard to kill something.

Because it makes units with few attack dice disproportionally weak and units with many attack dice disproportionally powerful. Ever heard of power creep? You go and kill something behind cover with a squad that has been decimated down to two troopers. The amount of scaling factors is immaterial. The impact of those factors makes the difference. And yes, it should be quite hard for most units to kill something behind cover, because that forces players to maneuver to the flank. If you insist on the Charge of the Light Brigade, go play 40k.

10 minutes ago, Rumar said:

Because it makes units with few attack dice disproportionally weak and units with many attack dice disproportionally powerful. Ever heard of power creep? You go and kill something behind cover with a squad that has been decimated down to two troopers. The amount of scaling factors is immaterial. The impact of those factors makes the difference. And yes, it should be quite hard for most units to kill something behind cover, because that forces players to maneuver to the flank. If you insist on the Charge of the Light Brigade, go play 40k.

Never played 40k nor do I want to.

If cover makes you so bent out of shape, maybe this game isn't for you.

Or wait till the rules get released then complain.

I have been thinking about this, many games give cover some bonus to the units saves or make the save go from hard to easy. Often this leads to a game where the strategy of building big units is rewarded by rolling more dice to shoot and making the unit very hard to kill. As such the games move away from being small units to being as large as you can manage.

Games design can sometimes face a problem, you want to simulate a certain effect, but when you do the game play takes a turn in another direction and does something that you don't want. As such you have a compromise where perhaps the specific rules makes no practical sense but just works and gives the effect you want form.

So the rule as it stands gives a benefit to small units, in a game that deals with small units. Maybe the rule is doing exactly what it should be doing.

5 hours ago, Amanal said:

So the rule as it stands gives a benefit to small units, in a game that deals with small units. Maybe the rule is doing exactly what it should be doing.

Actually, while I disagree with much of Rumars pessimism, he is correct in hat as it stands to cover system penalises small units, not benefits them.

Small units will struggle to get any hits on targets in cover due to the lack of dice they throw. Personally I don't have a major issue with this as it makes sense to me (weight of fire is a thing), but he is quite right. It certainly doesn't help small units in any way.

2 hours ago, Extropia said:

Actually, while I disagree with much of Rumars pessimism,

If they go easy on the power creep, this can still be a lot of fun. But they have form...

1 hour ago, Rumar said:

If they go easy on the power creep, this can still be a lot of fun. But they have form...

You're not wrong, but i'll cross that bridge if we come to it. At least so far i don't see it being an issue....it really depends what comes out later.

1 minute ago, Extropia said:

You're not wrong, but i'll cross that bridge if we come to it. At least so far i don't see it being an issue....it really depends what comes out later.

Let' s just hope you're right. Or that FFG reads forums.

6 hours ago, Extropia said:

Actually, while I disagree with much of Rumars pessimism, he is correct in hat as it stands to cover system penalises small units, not benefits them.

Small units will struggle to get any hits on targets in cover due to the lack of dice they throw. Personally I don't have a major issue with this as it makes sense to me (weight of fire is a thing), but he is quite right. It certainly doesn't help small units in any way.

I disagree.

First, I'd expect FFG to make units balanced. So you don't have a single unit with 2 attack dice trying to attack into cover. It won't do anything, unless it has blast or rolls a crit.

Second, you can move and then shoot. Your speeder bikes have to make 1 mandatory move and then can move again and then shoot. Even with their 3 dice front arc, there is no reason you can't find a flanking shot which negates cover.

Third, even small units matter. The assumption being your squad has taken 3 hits leaving 2 guys standing, their attack is still important for morale. From the sounds of it, so long as a unit is defending from an attack, they take a suppression token, which will reduce the amount of actions it can take and eventually force it to retreat. Being able to have 2 almost dead units attack a full squad is valuable to reduce their actions.

3 hours ago, Rumar said:

Let' s just hope you're right. Or that FFG reads forums.

If this team is anything like Armada, they do read the forums. People wanted Thrawn, a new ISD, MC75, Raddus, and a boarding Vader that kills things. Armada got all of it.

8 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

If this team is anything like Armada, they do read the forums.

I know for a fact FFG reads the forms... They are however not allowed to post on them. That's a FFG policy.

It looks like Alex Davis is the lead dev for Legion and if that's true I know he keeps up on what the community feels, because he's mentioned stuff he's read on the boards in interviews and such and I've seen his name listed on the list of people viewing threads in the past, but I don't think the new forms actually has that.

10 hours ago, Undeadguy said:

If this team is anything like Armada, they do read the forums. People wanted Thrawn, a new ISD, MC75, Raddus, and a boarding Vader that kills things. Armada got all of it.

But no SSD !!

2 hours ago, Amanal said:

But no SSD !!

Still missing two products based off the codes so you never know, and if the SSD was not going to be released all they would need to do would be to finally put out Piett as a commander in the game.

Maybe they plan on a specialist card for small units, 'if your unit is under 3 figures convert one hit to cri't sort of thing.

Maybe the cover rule is to mitigate the advantage smaller units have in command and control. you will have more units to choose from and maneuver and will be able to act after the opponent

Also if a small unit takes 10 hits but only has 4 guys that's is inherently an advantage, you still get full defense but will never take more than 4 casualties.