15 minutes ago, Wondergecko said:

Re. the Kom'rk's scale -- has anybody confirmed that 52 m is accurate? I know we've scaled the A-wing a million times off of screengrabs, but I have my doubts about the Kom'rk being quite so large. Also, even at that size, it's only 1.5" bigger than the ghost, and the Upsilon has basically already cleared the way for massive wingspans.

There's a pretty cool Aka'jor up on Shapeways, btw.

*cough* I'm biased because I made it. *cough*

Yeah I had the same inkling. It never seemed as large as its documented dimensions in the clone wars or rebels.

9 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

'only'. The ghost is already so fricking huge it had to have a special stand and it's still a pain in the rear to actually have at the table.

Yes only. At a common scale of 1/270 that would be roughly 3cm longer. Furthermore FFG don't always adhere to a common scale. The scurrg is a perfect example being much larger than the X-wing model suggests. And with articulated wings it's footprint would be smaller than the Ghost anyway.

4 minutes ago, BVRCH said:

Yeah I had the same inkling. It never seemed as large as its documented dimensions in the clone wars or rebels.

Yes only. At a common scale of 1/270 that would be roughly 3cm longer. Furthermore FFG don't always adhere to a common scale. The scurrg is a perfect example being much larger than the X-wing model suggests. And with articulated wings it's footprint would be smaller than the Ghost anyway.

its wings rotate around a central axis and rotate to vertical. It's still going to be MUCH wider than the ghost even with them rotated vertical. And the Upsilon with its wings folded wits entirely within the footprint of a large base.

I wouldn't be surprised to see it shrunk down a bit, but I'd prefer not to. It's just too big. The Ghost is ALREADY too big. 3cm longer than too big is too big.

8 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

its wings rotate around a central axis and rotate to vertical. It's still going to be MUCH wider than the ghost even with them rotated vertical. And the Upsilon with its wings folded wits entirely within the footprint of a large base.

I wouldn't be surprised to see it shrunk down a bit, but I'd prefer not to. It's just too big. The Ghost is ALREADY too big. 3cm longer than too big is too big.

Whilst I don't agree that the Ghost is TOO big, if the Gauntlet was at the same scale using its documented dimensions it would be wider yes. Whilst I can see that causing some issues, I think having articulated wings (in the 90 degree upward rotation about the cockpit) would alleviate most collisions as I find the Falcon and U-wing's front prongs are the points of the ship that get in the way most of the time. I rarely have issues with the Ghost getting in the way. I don't think the stand is due to its size, and more so due to its poor weight distribution. The Decimator is fine on a standard peg, and the Gauntlet looks like it would be closer to that in terms of casting.

All that being said, I wouldn't have a problem seeing it at a smaller scale. Even if was just scaled down to a similar size to the Decimator model. I personally can't understand how its as large as it says it is, but that's irrelevant. The Hounds Tooth is at a smaller scale than most other large ships (it's supposed to be 62m long), so I can't see why this can't be too.

On 8/26/2017 at 1:24 AM, BVRCH said:

So we've just had the Gauntlet fighters announced for armada, (and Grand Admiral Thrawn!) and this is a ship I've wanted in X-wing since the day I saw it in rebels.

When the cross faction Scurrg was announced I thought what better ship to be the next cross faction option for X-wing as its had all 3 fly it at some point.

I made some concepts that day for fun not thinking it would really be possibility, but with the ratio of armada ships making it into X-wing, we may well see the Gauntlet in a future expansion.

Anyway, here are my concepts. What would you guys want to see if this ship was brought into X-wing?

P.S. This would be a large base ship since its actually crazy long. I also designed the title with the epic Jam action in mind, the new wave 12 small ship jam wasn't thing when I thought this up, although it might actually better suit the ship.

Awesome

12 hours ago, GLEXOR said:

1) Mass =/= hull, if it did, the jm5k and YT-2400 would be running around at 6-7 hull, because they have more mass than a Y-wing. 2) the y-wings seen in the original trilogy do not have their armor ripped off, they are actually built that way, that is their armor.

not the case. the original Ys are partially salvaged clone wars bombers, with their plating removed. there are multiple EU references and a whole rebels episode about it. the Y-wing is bare bones, hence the exposed wiring etc.

34 minutes ago, Vontoothskie said:

not the case. the original Ys are partially salvaged clone wars bombers, with their plating removed. there are multiple EU references and a whole rebels episode about it. the Y-wing is bare bones, hence the exposed wiring etc.

link?

1 hour ago, GLEXOR said:

link?

theres a cross section picture and a picture of clone Ywings getting their armor stripped off in Rebels. just go on wookipedia

21 minutes ago, Vontoothskie said:

theres a cross section picture and a picture of clone Ywings getting their armor stripped off in Rebels. just go on wookipedia

So they did. But why? They lose a lot of durability (unless the armor was crap) when they remove the armor, and it didn't make them any faster to remove it, not to mention they completely changed the structure that holds the gunner and turret, switched it for an ion cannon, and completely redid the inside of the cockpit, almost all of this seems unnecessary.

2 hours ago, GLEXOR said:

So they did. But why? They lose a lot of durability (unless the armor was crap) when they remove the armor, and it didn't make them any faster to remove it, not to mention they completely changed the structure that holds the gunner and turret, switched it for an ion cannon, and completely redid the inside of the cockpit, almost all of this seems unnecessary.

One reason I read was; because of their age and tendency to get shot they were in regular need of repairs. The Alliance decided that due to how frequently they needed to pull them apart for repairs, it was easier to permanently remove the paneling. The turret was actually modified so that it could be operated by the pilot lessening the need for a gunner, and allowing the Y-wings to be operated by a single pilot, due to the limited amount of pilots the Alliance had at the time. The cockpit is the same just sans the fuselage paneling.

In the Rebels episode they were being scrapped for salvage so I guess the paneling was taken off during that process.

6 hours ago, BVRCH said:

One reason I read was; because of their age and tendency to get shot they were in regular need of repairs. The Alliance decided that due to how frequently they needed to pull them apart for repairs, it was easier to permanently remove the paneling. The turret was actually modified so that it could be operated by the pilot lessening the need for a gunner, and allowing the Y-wings to be operated by a single pilot, due to the limited amount of pilots the Alliance had at the time. The cockpit is the same just sans the fuselage paneling.

In the Rebels episode they were being scrapped for salvage so I guess the paneling was taken off during that process.

yeah this, the fact the armor was already off when the rebels stole them, and that they were more concerned about fast hit and runs than battles where armour is needed. also in that schematic you can see where the shield generators were taken out, originally it had 4 of them.

anyway I think thats proven my point: the Gauntlet needs more than 6 hull because an armourless light bomber a tenth its size has 5 hull. The gauntlets cockpit/bridge area(roughly 3% of the ship) is the size of an A-wing... think about that when you look at pictures of it.

3 minutes ago, Vontoothskie said:

yeah this, the fact the armor was already off when the rebels stole them, and that they were more concerned about fast hit and runs than battles where armour is needed. also in that schematic you can see where the shield generators were taken out, originally it had 4 of them.

anyway I think thats proven my point: the Gauntlet needs more than 6 hull because an armourless light bomber a tenth its size has 5 hull. The gauntlets cockpit/bridge area(roughly 3% of the ship) is the size of an A-wing... think about that when you look at pictures of it.

Well it's not proven your point at all. FFG don't design their ships stat lines purely based on size, so why would I. It has more agility and is in keeping with the other large base ships. I could see it's hull being increased by 1. Any more would be unbalanced. It has access to crew like I said before, as well an illicit slot with the title allowing it to scavenger crane mods like countermeasures and stealth device.

3 hours ago, BVRCH said:

Well it's not proven your point at all. FFG don't design their ships stat lines purely based on size, so why would I. It has more agility and is in keeping with the other large base ships. I could see it's hull being increased by 1. Any more would be unbalanced. It has access to crew like I said before, as well an illicit slot with the title allowing it to scavenger crane mods like countermeasures and stealth device.

Ive demonstrated that Y-wings have their armor removed, and thus proven my point that an unarmored light bomber has 5 hull. The Gauntlets silhouette is very close to the vt49 decimator, except its almost twice the size. the decimator has 12 hull. even if you scale down its size and retcon it to be the same size as the Ghost, why would it have a small base fighters statline?

I feel like you have an idea of the role you want the Gauntlet to fill in game, and youre ignoring aspects of what the ship is to make it fit that role.

trying to make a lighter version of the Firespray out of the Gauntlet doesnt make sense.

1 hour ago, Vontoothskie said:

The Gauntlets silhouette is very close to the vt49 decimator, except its almost twice the size.

You do realize that the decimator is scaled down a LOT, don't you? The decimator should have been the empires first epic ship.

21 minutes ago, GLEXOR said:

You do realize that the decimator is scaled down a LOT, don't you? The decimator should have been the empires first epic

23 minutes ago, GLEXOR said:

You do realize that the decimator is scaled down a LOT, don't you? The decimator should have been the empires first epic ship.

Ahh, good old "moving the goal post"... lol. not taking the bait. The Gauntlet is unquestionable larger than the Ghost though, so why do you want it to be a smaller ship with 9 hp so badly? every time i make a valid point or provide evidence, you ask a different question. when you are willing to address my points or present sources which suggest im wrong, we can have a conversation. until then i assume you're going to change the topic every time i present evidence you dont want to hear. my logic is that a ships hull thickness and armor has something to do with its hull value in game, hence a thin winged TIE is fragile while a brick like the Scurrg is tougher. why are you so insistent that armour plating and mass are not relevant to hull value? is there some rationale or do you just want it to be cheaper than the ghost?

I think one thing we can all agree on is that the ship we really want is a Rebel-factioned Sabine's Gauntlet Fighter, right?

*smirk*

1 hour ago, Vontoothskie said:

You do realize that the decimator is scaled down a LOT, don't you? The decimator should have been the empires first epic

2 hours ago, GLEXOR said:

You do realize that the decimator is scaled down a LOT, don't you? The decimator should have been the empires first epic ship.

Ahh, good old "moving the goal post"... lol. not taking the bait. The Gauntlet is unquestionable larger than the Ghost though, so why do you want it to be a smaller ship with 9 hp so badly? every time i make a valid point or provide evidence, you ask a different question. when you are willing to address my points or present sources which suggest im wrong, we can have a conversation. until then i assume you're going to change the topic every time i present evidence you dont want to hear. my logic is that a ships hull thickness and armor has something to do with its hull value in game, hence a thin winged TIE is fragile while a brick like the Scurrg is tougher. why are you so insistent that armour plating and mass are not relevant to hull value? is there some rationale or do you just want it to be cheaper than the ghost?

I'm not saying that hull/ armor thickness isn't a factor, it is, but mass =/= hull strength, and this thing looks like it's wings are super flimsy, and held on by tiny pegs, vs the ghost is like a brick, and should be able to take much more punishment. And I guarantee that if it loses a wing, it is going down. That is why it should not be a high hull ship, 6 is probably good. You want it tougher? Give it some better, military shields, after all, it is a warship.

Edit: also, when you compared the sizes of this and the VT, I felt like I had to say something. I wasn't trying to divert or change the subject, just point out that they are not as similar as you might think.

8 hours ago, BVRCH said:

Well it's not proven your point at all. FFG don't design their ships stat lines purely based on size, so why would I. It has more agility and is in keeping with the other large base ships. I could see it's hull being increased by 1. Any more would be unbalanced. It has access to crew like I said before, as well an illicit slot with the title allowing it to scavenger crane mods like countermeasures and stealth device.

balance is derived from a ships viability vs. cost as compared to other ships. so you saying "anymore would be unbalanced" doesnt make sense... you'd just up its cost to match its power. or do you think decimators are unfair because of their 12 hull?

if a tie defender generics cost 20 points, theyd be uncontested as the best ship in the game, but at 50 points would be unplayably bad. the cost is what determined balance.

I think the generic gauntlet pilot should be around 50 to 60 points, but have stats like a beefed up firespray. 4/1/12/4 with an okay dial, and maybe a "Gauntlet" title that buffs either agility or mobility for a few points. Something that big should play big

1 hour ago, Vontoothskie said:

balance is derived from a ships viability vs. cost as compared to other ships. so you saying "anymore would be unbalanced" doesnt make sense... you'd just up its cost to match its power. or do you think decimators are unfair because of their 12 hull?

if a tie defender generics cost 20 points, theyd be uncontested as the best ship in the game, but at 50 points would be unplayably bad. the cost is what determined balance.

I think the generic gauntlet pilot should be around 50 to 60 points, but have stats like a beefed up firespray. 4/1/12/4 with an okay dial, and maybe a "Gauntlet" title that buffs either agility or mobility for a few points. Something that big should play big

50 to 60 points for a naked low PS ship?? Who is going to want to play that?

Why have you given it 4 attack? it's a troop transport not a gunship.

I give up, I'm not even going to bother trying to argue this with you anymore.

2 hours ago, Wondergecko said:

I think one thing we can all agree on is that the ship we really want is a Rebel-factioned Sabine's Gauntlet Fighter, right?

*smirk*

You smirk, but Rebel Sabine's ability on that baby? Aaaawww Yeeeeah!

1 hour ago, BVRCH said:

50 to 60 points for a naked low PS ship?? Who is going to want to play that?

Why have you given it 4 attack? it's a troop transport not a gunship.

I give up, I'm not even going to bother trying to argue this with you anymore.

i gave it 4 attack because its as nearly Gozanti sized and is called a "Gauntlet Fighter"... people dont name troop transports "fighters" unless they give them big guns. in fact the plans for the ship on wookepedia show that it has enormous cannons built into the nose cone, probably twin turbolasers based on them being around 4 meters long.

anyway, i regularly play a 70 point Ghost, and a Ghost with 2 agility would probably be the most OP ship in the game. I'd play a 4/2/12/4 if it cost a 100 points with upgrades and a decent dial. if this ship makes it into the game it will be a new archetype, it isnt like anything else we've got

13 minutes ago, Vontoothskie said:

i gave it 4 attack because its as nearly Gozanti sized and is called a "Gauntlet Fighter"... people dont name troop transports "fighters" unless they give them big guns. in fact the plans for the ship on wookepedia show that it has enormous cannons built into the nose cone, probably twin turbolasers based on them being around 4 meters long.

anyway, i regularly play a 70 point Ghost, and a Ghost with 2 agility would probably be the most OP ship in the game. I'd play a 4/2/12/4 if it cost a 100 points with upgrades and a decent dial. if this ship makes it into the game it will be a new archetype, it isnt like anything else we've got

GAUNTLET FIGHTER

Part of Pre Vizsla's arsenal were Gauntlet starfighters -- sleek combat ships that also served as troop transports. A Gauntlet has a sleek primary hull flanked by large pivoting wings that contain the ship's drives. The wings are on a collared mount, which can rotate independently from the hull, offering the ship remarkable maneuverability for a ship of its size. Within the hull is a drop-seat bay where 24 armored Death Watch troopers can egress via jetpack as the Gauntlet provides air support. The ship is armed with two forward laser cannons, and a pair of rearward facing cannons that flank its boarding tube.

From the Star Wars Databank website: http://www.starwars.com/databank/gauntlet-fighter

On 9/1/2017 at 6:55 AM, Wondergecko said:

I think one thing we can all agree on is that the ship we really want is a Rebel-factioned Sabine's Gauntlet Fighter, right?

*smirk*

On 9/1/2017 at 9:52 AM, SabineKey said:

You smirk, but Rebel Sabine's ability on that baby? Aaaawww Yeeeeah!

Well she's not in the Phantom II expansion, and she's now pseudo head of House Vizsla.. I'm sure Gar Saxon had a few extra's laying around for a future 'post rebels' X-wing wave

On 8/31/2017 at 9:23 PM, BVRCH said:

GAUNTLET FIGHTER

Part of Pre Vizsla's arsenal were Gauntlet starfighters -- sleek combat ships that also served as troop transports. A Gauntlet has a sleek primary hull flanked by large pivoting wings that contain the ship's drives. The wings are on a collared mount, which can rotate independently from the hull, offering the ship remarkable maneuverability for a ship of its size. Within the hull is a drop-seat bay where 24 armored Death Watch troopers can egress via jetpack as the Gauntlet provides air support. The ship is armed with two forward laser cannons, and a pair of rearward facing cannons that flank its boarding tube.

From the Star Wars Databank website: http://www.starwars.com/databank/gauntlet-fighter

precisely. big guns on a big ship

On 8/30/2017 at 8:16 AM, GLEXOR said:

1) Mass =/= hull, if it did, the jm5k and YT-2400 would be running around at 6-7 hull, because they have more mass than a Y-wing. 2) the y-wings seen in the original trilogy do not have their armor ripped off, they are actually built that way, that is their armor.

The Clone Wars and Rebels have disproven such a notion.

On 8/31/2017 at 2:35 PM, GLEXOR said:

You do realize that the decimator is scaled down a LOT, don't you? The decimator should have been the empires first epic ship.

Hahahaha. I served on one. It's the right scale. Throw away your crappy Wookieepedia articles, They are never correct about Scale.

Take this for example, yeah? So I want you to use those article trusting eyes to look at its primary gun up top. See that Quad Laser Cannon? Look familiar? It should.

Now what I want you to do is this SUPER cool thing called Extrapolation. Star Wars Galaxies' large, "Ace" ships? They all used the same scale for their turret hardpoints and the same models. Just, flat out, those did NOT ever change. So here, we can find a common scale and...



Ohoho wow, would you look at that.

She's at the proper scale from her source material and not some crappy wook article that always takes awful WoTC content as canon.

Been doing this since the HWK-290. Guess I gotta do it for my beloved VT-49 now.