One thing that could be added, since the Gauntlet is a troop carrier, is a Mandalorian Strike Team card. This card would be like the Wookiee Commandos or Death Troopers, taking up both crew slots and giving you a special ability.

On 17/03/2018 at 7:22 AM, Vontoothskie said:

precisely. big guns on a big ship

It says it has 2 forward guns and 2 rearward guns... nothing about them being big. You can't just say 'precisely' about something that bares no reference to your point, and act like your point has been validated. None of your arguments on this thread have any backing of logic nor evidence.

1 hour ago, BVRCH said:

It says it has 2 forward guns and 2 rearward guns... nothing about them being big. You can't just say 'precisely' about something that bares no reference to your point, and act like your point has been validated. None of your arguments on this thread have any backing of logic nor evidence.

you quoted an article which describes the ship as a combat vessel and later on references it a having 12 meter long cannons.... that validated my point about its firepower and was in fact 1 of the sources ive been referencing.

As for my second point that it should have a reasonable hull value, its common sense. its a huge warship. its bigger than the decimator and the wings are the same thickness. if the decimator gets 12, the gauntlet should get at least 10. the Skuurg is a tenth the mass and just look at its stats

28 minutes ago, Vontoothskie said:

you quoted an article which describes the ship as a combat vessel and later on references it a having 12 meter long cannons.... that validated my point about its firepower and was in fact 1 of the sources ive been referencing.

As for my second point that it should have a reasonable hull value, its common sense. its a huge warship. its bigger than the decimator and the wings are the same thickness. if the decimator gets 12, the gauntlet should get at least 10. the Skuurg is a tenth the mass and just look at its stats

12 metre long cannons??? Nowhere does it state that at all. Now you're just making stuff up, I shouldn't have even replied...

44 minutes ago, Vontoothskie said:

you quoted an article which describes the ship as a combat vessel and later on references it a having 12 meter long cannons.... that validated my point about its firepower and was in fact 1 of the sources ive been referencing.

As for my second point that it should have a reasonable hull value, its common sense. its a huge warship. its bigger than the decimator and the wings are the same thickness. if the decimator gets 12, the gauntlet should get at least 10. the Skuurg is a tenth the mass and just look at its stats

Where does it say it has 12 meter long cannons?

GR-75 has a hull of 8. That’s ptobabky due to mass more than anything. The combat refit (presumedly adding armor) brings the hull to 10. I would expect the Mando ship to be in the 8-10 range at the most.

I think hull represents a lot of things in combination:

mass, armor, robustness of critical systems, location of critical systems, etc.

given this I would say the ship should be in the 7-9 range, it’s very thin in most of its frame and might not as resistant to damage as its size would indicate.

14 hours ago, SabineKey said:

Where does it say it has 12 meter long cannons?

it has the length of the ship schematics, and the cannons are shown in the schematic cut away. its easy to ballpark the math.

I actually rounded down the size, theyre probably closer to 20 meters as they run down the wings.

24 minutes ago, Vontoothskie said:

it has the length of the ship schematics, and the cannons are shown in the schematic cut away. its easy to ballpark the math.

I actually rounded down the size, theyre probably closer to 20 meters as they run down the wings.

I don't see any schematics in the StarWars.com link @BVRCH used. Would you please link to what you are using?

8 hours ago, GrimmyV said:

GR-75 has a hull of 8. That’s ptobabky due to mass more than anything. The combat refit (presumedly adding armor) brings the hull to 10. I would expect the Mando ship to be in the 8-10 range at the most.

I think hull represents a lot of things in combination:

mass, armor, robustness of critical systems, location of critical systems, etc.

given this I would say the ship should be in the 7-9 range, it’s very thin in most of its frame and might not as resistant to damage as its size would indicate.

I agree. The other aspects that need to be considered are its agility value and balancing with the existing ships. Whilst having a larger footprint, the Gauntlet is much more agile both in its manoeuvrability and its overall profile, than the floating fortress' of the Ghost and the Decimator. I originally gave it 2 agility, but maybe it should be more along the lines of the Falcon, having 1 agility and an evade action. That being said, existing ships with 1 agility have a max of 9 hull so I don't think it should be any higher than that. It should also heavily focus on armoured hull over shielding since that seems to be the way of MandalMotors.

Maybe something along the lines of B-SF17 stats with a higher attack value. I don't agree with the 4 attack suggestion some have made simply as it has access to HLC through the cannon slot. I do however think that its aux arc should be a special arc allowing for cannon shots out the rear arc. That way it can be a sub 40pt support ship without a cannon, but if you want it to hit like a truck it becomes a min 40pt fighter.

So maybe..

3 Atk / 1 Agl / 9 Hull / 3 Shld

w/ Focus, Target Lock, Boost

Nightbrother title to read something like; "When defending, if you are inside the attackers firing arc and the attacker is inside your firing arc, roll 1 additional defense die." Similar to its little brother's Concord Dawn Protector title.

What do you guys think? @GrimmyV @SabineKey

Statline looks alright. I do think it's a canidate to be the 4 att Scum ship, but that does drive up the points. As I look into the ship, I don't think it should have a cannon slot. It's only described as having 4 laser cannons (2 front, 2 rear), which are the standard weapon designation. The 1 agi is probably right. I would love for it to be two, but with its size, 1agi makes more sense.

Agreed on the action bar.

So, I like the ability for the title, but I don't think it should be the Nightbrother. I feel the Nightbrother should give more of a Maul/Shadow Collective feel rather than a Mandalorians one. A simple example of this is for it to add the illicit slot to the ship.

10 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

Statline looks alright. I do think it's a canidate to be the 4 att Scum ship, but that does drive up the points. As I look into the ship, I don't think it should have a cannon slot. It's only described as having 4 laser cannons (2 front, 2 rear), which are the standard weapon designation. The 1 agi is probably right. I would love for it to be two, but with its size, 1agi makes more sense.

Agreed on the action bar.

So, I like the ability for the title, but I don't think it should be the Nightbrother. I feel the Nightbrother should give more of a Maul/Shadow Collective feel rather than a Mandalorians one. A simple example of this is for it to add the illicit slot to the ship.

I do understand the sentiment of wanting to give Scum a 4 dice primary, but I think in order to do that (coupled with its other attributes) it would have to be a 40pt ship anyway. I also think it would close the door on a Scum support ship and an alternative to the party bus, which I think the Gauntlet has the potential to be. I realise the ship doesn't have any special cannon like the Outrider or the Slave 1 but by giving it a cannon slot (and an HLC in the box) it has the option to be a 4 dice gunboat or a 2 crew scum support ship. With a superior dial and action bar I think if it were to have 4 attack it would completely eclipse the Upsilon as the big hitting imperial crew carrier, and would bury the U-wing even deeper than it already is on the rebel side.

Yeah I think 1 agility and access to autothrusters is a fair trade. Coupled with the title it would be tanky but in an agile way, rather than just face-tanking like the Ghost.

Yeah that's a fair call, maybe give it a generic title called something like "Concord Dawn Defender" with the extra defense die, and keep the Nightbrother title as it was but give it a Maul only clause?

2 hours ago, BVRCH said:

I do understand the sentiment of wanting to give Scum a 4 dice primary, but I think in order to do that (coupled with its other attributes) it would have to be a 40pt ship anyway. I also think it would close the door on a Scum support ship and an alternative to the party bus, which I think the Gauntlet has the potential to be. I realise the ship doesn't have any special cannon like the Outrider or the Slave 1 but by giving it a cannon slot (and an HLC in the box) it has the option to be a 4 dice gunboat or a 2 crew scum support ship. With a superior dial and action bar I think if it were to have 4 attack it would completely eclipse the Upsilon as the big hitting imperial crew carrier, and would bury the U-wing even deeper than it already is on the rebel side.

Yeah I think 1 agility and access to autothrusters is a fair trade. Coupled with the title it would be tanky but in an agile way, rather than just face-tanking like the Ghost.

Yeah that's a fair call, maybe give it a generic title called something like "Concord Dawn Defender" with the extra defense die, and keep the Nightbrother title as it was but give it a Maul only clause?

Fair on the Attack issue. There a couple of ways it can be made, and frankly at this point, I don’t really mind which it ends up being as long as we get it.

I do like the idea of having a generic title like you suggested.

As for the Nightbrother title, I don’t think it has to be Maul only. I don’t know exact details, but you could give it slots and/or an ability to make it a better support ship. With your idea of the Gauntlet having a cannon slot, maybe the Nightbrother takes that away for more crew slots, thus allowing it to be more of a party bus, but the YV-666 still has a differing option from it.

1 hour ago, SabineKey said:

Fair on the Attack issue. There a couple of ways it can be made, and frankly at this point, I don’t really mind which it ends up being as long as we get it.

I do like the idea of having a generic title like you suggested.

As for the Nightbrother title, I don’t think it has to be Maul only. I don’t know exact details, but you could give it slots and/or an ability to make it a better support ship. With your idea of the Gauntlet having a cannon slot, maybe the Nightbrother takes that away for more crew slots, thus allowing it to be more of a party bus, but the YV-666 still has a differing option from it.

Yeah I will take any iteration of ship

I think the original idea of a jam action and an illicit slot would be good. Or maybe a Tie/D style title for cannons 2pts and under.

The reason I suggested a Maul only clause is that the nightbrother is his particular Gauntlet and the Jam and illicit feel very 'Maul' to me, and it would also prevent Imperials from getting an illicit slot, which seems to be a thing that FFG is actively doing. But if the title were something different and be across all factions I'd definitely change the name.

14 minutes ago, BVRCH said:

Yeah I will take any iteration of ship

I think the original idea of a jam action and an illicit slot would be good. Or maybe a Tie/D style title for cannons 2pts and under.

The reason I suggested a Maul only clause is that the nightbrother is his particular Gauntlet and the Jam and illicit feel very 'Maul' to me, and it would also prevent Imperials from getting an illicit slot, which seems to be a thing that FFG is actively doing. But if the title were something different and be across all factions I'd definitely change the name.

But it’s still the Nightbrother Ezra brings back to Phoenix Squadron, though they do refer to it as the Gauntlet from then on. If we had other titles that were pilot specific (like Slave 1 for Boba Fett or The Shadow Caster for Ketsu), then it would fit, but other titles are free to use across the pilots (and factions in a few places).

I also don’t think keeping illicits out of Imp hands is all that important, so them getting access to it through a Nightbrother title seems to be a good way to give it something more unique for Imp lists. I mean, Rebels already have what, 4 ships that can take it?

3 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

But it’s still the Nightbrother Ezra brings back to Phoenix Squadron, though they do refer to it as the Gauntlet from then on. If we had other titles that were pilot specific (like Slave 1 for Boba Fett or The Shadow Caster for Ketsu), then it would fit, but other titles are free to use across the pilots (and factions in a few places).

I also don’t think keeping illicits out of Imp hands is all that important, so them getting access to it through a Nightbrother title seems to be a good way to give it something more unique for Imp lists. I mean, Rebels already have what, 4 ships that can take it?

Yeah I know, but Ezra does have access to Maul as crew, fulfilling the title clause requirements.

I agree, I don't think illicits should be banned from imperials (I think the Imp Slave should definitely get a new title giving it an illicit slot). I do think it should only be available to modified ships like the Slave 1 though.

I'm in 2 minds about it being the 'nightbrother' for Imperials though. Gar Saxon could be considered a Imperial contractor just like Boba, and would be a candidate for an illicit slot in my eyes. However the ship only became the 'nightbrother' after Maul had stolen it, which makes the fluff-police in me think the title should be called something different for Imps. The Fang fighters don't have illicit slots either.

Or maybe we just drop the Nightbrother name altogether, make the generic title, and have the illicit slot be a native upgrade on the ship.

1 minute ago, BVRCH said:

Yeah I know, but Ezra does have access to Maul as crew, fulfilling the title clause requirements.

I agree, I don't think illicits should be banned from imperials (I think the Imp Slave should definitely get a new title giving it an illicit slot). I do think it should only be available to modified ships like the Slave 1 though.

I'm in 2 minds about it being the 'nightbrother' for Imperials though. Gar Saxon could be considered a Imperial contractor just like Boba, and would be a candidate for an illicit slot in my eyes. However the ship only became the 'nightbrother' after Maul had stolen it, which makes the fluff-police in me think the title should be called something different for Imps. The Fang fighters don't have illicit slots either.

Or maybe we just drop the Nightbrother name altogether, make the generic title, and have the illicit slot be a native upgrade on the ship.

Well, the fluff can work out as the Nightbrother is listed as Maul's flag ship when he ruled Death Watch, commanded by the Mandalorian Rook Kast, with even a young Gar Saxon serving on it. Not ironclad, but there is enough ambiguity to imply that the modifications that make the Nightbrother different happened when he still had power over the Shadow Collective. And again, it's not like any other title is pilot restricted.

I don't really equate Fett and Saxon as the former was an independent contractor while the latter had actual authority and title from the Empire. While Saxon seems to be more of an opportunist that allies with whoever is the strongest at the time, he is still more involved with the Empire than Fett ever was. Then we have Gar's brother who was more firmly Imperial than he was.

I really don't think the base Gauntlet should have the illicit slot for the basic reason that Fangs don't.

2 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

Well, the fluff can work out as the Nightbrother is listed as Maul's flag ship when he ruled Death Watch, commanded by the Mandalorian Rook Kast, with even a young Gar Saxon serving on it. Not ironclad, but there is enough ambiguity to imply that the modifications that make the Nightbrother different happened when he still had power over the Shadow Collective. And again, it's not like any other title is pilot restricted.

I don't really equate Fett and Saxon as the former was an independent contractor while the latter had actual authority and title from the Empire. While Saxon seems to be more of an opportunist that allies with whoever is the strongest at the time, he is still more involved with the Empire than Fett ever was. Then we have Gar's brother who was more firmly Imperial than he was.

I really don't think the base Gauntlet should have the illicit slot for the basic reason that Fangs don't.

Fair call. You've satisfied the fluff haha.

Yeah I agree for the same reason. I might have another play in Strange Eons and edit some of these cards later today.

On 26.8.2017 at 7:24 AM, BVRCH said:

Concept and Dial look really fun!

Excuse me for being a bit out of the loop on this though, why can this thing fire backwards?

3 hours ago, DampfGecko said:

Concept and Dial look really fun!

Excuse me for being a bit out of the loop on this though, why can this thing fire backwards?

Two aft facing cannons as seen here.

My take is nearly identical to the original poster, with the following possible changes

I think the dial needs a touch more green. Maybe add the 4 straight?
I think 4 Attack primary would be fine, unless it has a native rear arc.
More than 1 title, with one allowing a single equipped cannon to fire in the rear arc. Similar to how the Mist Hunter Title works, but this cannon must not be Tractor beam or linked (possibly others)
I'd like to see Barrel Roll on this puppy.
This ship has no Segnor's loop or Tallon Roll (The latter would be a nightmare with a large base ship) Perhaps it should have an S-Loop? EDIT: It was included, I'm just blind.
More points. I think it has been under-priced, even as-is.

38 minutes ago, Yakostovian said:

My take is nearly identical to the original poster, with the following possible changes

I think the dial needs a touch more green. Maybe add the 4 straight?
I think 4 Attack primary would be fine, unless it has a native rear arc.
More than 1 title, with one allowing a single equipped cannon to fire in the rear arc. Similar to how the Mist Hunter Title works, but this cannon must not be Tractor beam or linked (possibly others)
I'd like to see Barrel Roll on this puppy.
This ship has no Segnor's loop or Tallon Roll (The latter would be a nightmare with a large base ship) Perhaps it should have an S-Loop? EDIT: It was included, I'm just blind.
More points. I think it has been under-priced, even as-is.

yeah the T-roll would be really strange for a large ship, as much as I would like to see it on this.

7 minutes ago, CMDR Ytterium said:

yeah the T-roll would be really strange for a large ship, as much as I would like to see it on this.

If there was a case for it on any large ship, I think you would be hard pressed to find a better ship than the Gauntlet. But that may be my Mandalorian Fanboi speaking.