So we've just had the Gauntlet fighters announced for armada, (and Grand Admiral Thrawn!) and this is a ship I've wanted in X-wing since the day I saw it in rebels.

When the cross faction Scurrg was announced I thought what better ship to be the next cross faction option for X-wing as its had all 3 fly it at some point.

I made some concepts that day for fun not thinking it would really be possibility, but with the ratio of armada ships making it into X-wing, we may well see the Gauntlet in a future expansion.

Anyway, here are my concepts. What would you guys want to see if this ship was brought into X-wing?

P.S. This would be a large base ship since its actually crazy long. I also designed the title with the epic Jam action in mind, the new wave 12 small ship jam wasn't thing when I thought this up, although it might actually better suit the ship.

I really like it. In my private musing on the ship, I imagined the same statline. I was hoping for a better dial, but that does jack up the price and what you have put together looks workable.

Love Maul's and Saxon's abilities. Were you intending them to stay PS 4?

Hondo is great. It might be fun to actually remove all faction restrictions on him and just have him work with anybody.

I'm little ify on Thrawn's ability, but he is a hard to balance out. The wide spread nature of his benefit is good.

A little worried about AP-5. For that price, he might need to be discarded after use of something.

Also, what is your reasoning for the cannon slot?

Edit: Forgot about the title. Considering the power of the Epic Jam action, I fear 2 points is too low. Otherwise love what it gives.

Thanks! I chose the dial as this ship seems to function equally as a troop carrier as it does a starfighter. As a large ship, its fast but isn't as manoeuvrable as say a Fang fighter. All the Pilots benefit from stress as well so I thought this dial was a good balance in movement whilst also working with the pilot abilities.

I think Hondo's ability works well thematically and would hopefully incentivize the use of more discardable upgrades as he bypasses ships upgrade slots. The only reason I didn't give him to the empire is they have no access to illicit upgrades right now, so he's less useful to them, but that could change. Thematically I think he would work for them for the right price lol.

I ended up making Thrawn lower his agility, to keep to his theme of affording the enemy an advantage to gain his own advantage in the long run, and setting a trap. He sits well in a decimator, or Upsilon shuttle as their agility values aren't that useful anyway (certainly not the Deci). However I was also toying with him being an action card instead of lowered agility. Do you think that's a more balanced option?

I envisioned AP-5 crew as a device to escape. As he's locked in to triggering whilst in a firing arc, he would shine for high PS arc dodgers, but wouldn't be as effective for mid to low PS ships. That was my reasoning for 2pts and not 3pts, as the majority of high PS rebel ships don't have have crew slots anyway, and 3pt crew have a lot of other arguably better options for the price. If he were a discard I would say he should drop to 1pt.

I put the cannon slot on there as I see this ship as the Fang's big brother, with heavier fire power etc. They are equipped with both forward and rear cannons in Rebels so I thought it would be an accurate option for it. Especially with supplementary cannons like Ion, autoblaster etc.

I only went with PS4 as that's Ezra's established pilot skill. I'm not tied to that number in particular, I just thought it fair for all pilots to be the same PS. FFG have increased Ezra's pilot skill for the phantom II so maybe they're PS should be higher?

The only Hondo of my heart

On 8/26/2017 at 3:05 PM, SabineKey said:

I'm little ify on Thrawn's ability, but he is a hard to balance out. The wide spread nature of his benefit is good.

Also, what is your reasoning for the cannon slot?

Edit: Forgot about the title. Considering the power of the Epic Jam action, I fear 2 points is too low. Otherwise love what it gives.

After your comments and thinking about it some more, Thrawn should really be a contender for epic play as well and my iteration doesn't really account for that.

Maybe something like "At the end of the activation phase, you may spend your target lock, if you do, all friendly ships at Range 1-2 may acquire a target lock." I think that gives it a bit more of a command feel, and you could put him on a Gozanti and let your undocked TIE fighters gain free target locks for example.

I agree with you on the Nightbrother title too, I think since we have now seen the effects of the wave 12 small ship Jam, maybe it shouldn't have the Jam action at all. Maybe this is where the cannon slot comes into play? With something similar to the Mist Hunter title card.

Nightbrother (0pts) - Your ship's upgrade bar gains the illicit upgrade icon. You must equip 1 "Jammer Beam" upgrade card (paying its squad point cost as normal).

1 hour ago, BVRCH said:

After your comments and thinking about it some more, Thrawn should really be a contender for epic play as well and my iteration doesn't really account for that.

Maybe something like "At the end of the activation phase, you may spend your target lock, if you do, all friendly ships at Range 1-2 may acquire a target lock." I think that gives it a bit more of a command feel, and you could put him on a Gozanti and let your undocked TIE fighters gain free target locks for example.

I agree with you on the Nightbrother title too, I think since we have now seen the effects of the wave 12 small ship Jam, maybe it shouldn't have the Jam action at all. Maybe this is where the cannon slot comes into play? With something similar to the Mist Hunter title card.

Nightbrother (0pts) - Your ship's upgrade bar gains the illicit upgrade icon. You must equip 1 "Jammer Beam" upgrade card (paying its squad point cost as normal).

That could work with Thrawn. The broad range is important, though I did like what you were saying about him giving a small advantage while setting up a larger one for himself. The Target Lock cost should be enough for that.

Taking the jammer beam might be interesting. Another alternative might work out is to model it after the Shadow Caster title. Like "after you perform an attack that hits, if it is at X range, you may assign a Jammed Token to the target". That would require a point cost of around 3, though. Either way has interesting possibilities.

On 8/26/2017 at 1:24 AM, BVRCH said:

So we've just had the Gauntlet fighters announced for armada, (and Grand Admiral Thrawn!) and this is a ship I've wanted in X-wing since the day I saw it in rebels.

When the cross faction Scurrg was announced I thought what better ship to be the next cross faction option for X-wing as its had all 3 fly it at some point.

I made some concepts that day for fun not thinking it would really be possibility, but with the ratio of armada ships making it into X-wing, we may well see the Gauntlet in a future expansion.

Anyway, here are my concepts. What would you guys want to see if this ship was brought into X-wing?

P.S. This would be a large base ship since its actually crazy long. I also designed the title with the epic Jam action in mind, the new wave 12 small ship jam wasn't thing when I thought this up, although it might actually better suit the ship.

for a ship 3 times the mass of the falcon it should have more hull. at least 10 hull, so with 3 shields it would be tougher than tanky small ships like the Scurrg

Mass =/= hull.

I view Hull as the ability of a ship to sustain damage. Unlike the Falcon, this ship seems like it would be fairly fragile for it's size, while the Falcon is built like a brick.

It being an agile ship that can't quite take a hit makes sense.

40 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

That could work with Thrawn. The broad range is important, though I did like what you were saying about him giving a small advantage while setting up a larger one for himself. The Target Lock cost should be enough for that.

Taking the jammer beam might be interesting. Another alternative might work out is to model it after the Shadow Caster title. Like "after you perform an attack that hits, if it is at X range, you may assign a Jammed Token to the target". That would require a point cost of around 3, though. Either way has interesting possibilities.

Yeah I agree, he needs to give wide range support, but he needs to be set up, in a way, in order to do so. He affords his squad an advantage at the cost of his target lock.

I love that idea for the title, that way it doesn't take up an attack. It makes the rear arc more of a threat as well. Combo it with Tail Gunner and it'd quite a nice set up.

34 minutes ago, Vontoothskie said:

for a ship 3 times the mass of the falcon it should have more hull. at least 10 hull, so with 3 shields it would be tougher than tanky small ships like the Scurrg

28 minutes ago, BadMotivator said:

Mass =/= hull.

I view Hull as the ability of a ship to sustain damage. Unlike the Falcon, this ship seems like it would be fairly fragile for it's size, while the Falcon is built like a brick.

It being an agile ship that can't quite take a hit makes sense.

Yeah I've always seen it as a big Fang Fighter, hence the low eHP and lower squad cost. I think it should be more fragile than the Shadowcaster and the Slave 1 in terms of eHP which is why I went with 3 and 6. Both Ezra and Maul have the potential to dodge quite a few shots when stressed. Maybe it should be more, I thought having equal eHP as the Jumpmaster was a fair stat line for the squad cost.

I am probably somewhat ignorant as I didn't saw rebels past season2 (yet). However from what I saw (basically the Thrawn-Armada Announcement) this ship looks pretty much like an upscaled protectorate-fighter (was that the name). Seems like a lazy design to me.

4 hours ago, Hannes Solo said:

I am probably somewhat ignorant as I didn't saw rebels past season2 (yet). However from what I saw (basically the Thrawn-Armada Announcement) this ship looks pretty much like an upscaled protectorate-fighter (was that the name). Seems like a lazy design to me.

Technically, it's the other way around. The Gauntlet Fighters were originally shown in the Clone Wars cartoon, while the Protectorate Fighters(or Fang Fighters) were invented for the Rebels show, which came out after.

I think the similarities in design were intended to give Mandalorian Ships a distinct design apart from some of the other Star Wars ships. Now, this doesn't line up with Legends Mandalorian ships or even ships made by MandalMotors for other clients, but just taking Clone Wars and Rebels, the style fits. There is even a shuttle from Clone Wars that fits in.

On 26/08/2017 at 3:39 AM, RufusDaMan said:

The only Hondo of my heart

"We'll split it in half, 60 / 40."

On Saturday, August 26, 2017 at 0:39 AM, RufusDaMan said:

The only Hondo of my heart

You sir, owe me a new keyboard. Thanks for the good chuckle.

Awesome ideas and I like it! It's hard to do an accurate Hondo or Thrawn and you came as close as I have seen yet to a balanced one that won't get Palpa-nerfed (still annoyed about that one, they should reverse it!) but great stuff

15 hours ago, Hannes Solo said:

I am probably somewhat ignorant as I didn't saw rebels past season2 (yet). However from what I saw (basically the Thrawn-Armada Announcement) this ship looks pretty much like an upscaled protectorate-fighter (was that the name). Seems like a lazy design to me.

I personally really like the design. Like @SabineKey said it seems to be Mandalorian only sort of design aesthetic in keeping with the armour etc. The Gauntlet design (in rebels) is in the shape of the skull of the mythosaur as well which I think is a pretty neat little touch, adding to the mandalorian aesthetic.

10 hours ago, GILLIES291 said:

Awesome ideas and I like it! It's hard to do an accurate Hondo or Thrawn and you came as close as I have seen yet to a balanced one that won't get Palpa-nerfed (still annoyed about that one, they should reverse it!) but great stuff

Thanks! I tried my best to make them as balanced as I could in todays game, rather than just an OP wishlist I think theming is as important as making them competitive, and while these 2 characters are hard to design for in terms of balance, they have strong themes which is what I was hoping would show through in their abilities.

Images not working for me. Access denied XML error.

I recommend using imgur, as I belive its galleries are supported natively by this forum.

16 hours ago, SabineKey said:

Technically, it's the other way around. The Gauntlet Fighters were originally shown in the Clone Wars cartoon, while the Protectorate Fighters(or Fang Fighters) were invented for the Rebels show, which came out after.

I think the similarities in design were intended to give Mandalorian Ships a distinct design apart from some of the other Star Wars ships. Now, this doesn't line up with Legends Mandalorian ships or even ships made by MandalMotors for other clients, but just taking Clone Wars and Rebels, the style fits. There is even a shuttle from Clone Wars that fits in.

The aka'jor would fit as a Large ship.

I still maintain that the Kom'rk/Gauntlet doesn't fit into X-Wing at all. It's way too big to be a standard-play ship, and it's not long and thin enough to be an Epic ship, not to mention lacking hardpoints or space for teams etc.

It would also struggle to fit into any of the current packaging shapes in x-wing.

I doubt it's coming to the game unless they seriously mess with its scale.

If I recall, these ships also had drop bays, we could get a new crew, or team, mandalorian commandos.

Give a boarding action, or attack. Mandalorian commandoes would work with all factions. Drop like a bomb, move at pilot skill zero, execute a 1 straight or bank. Cross the token, make an attack.

6 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

The aka'jor would fit as a Large ship.

I still maintain that the Kom'rk/Gauntlet doesn't fit into X-Wing at all. It's way too big to be a standard-play ship, and it's not long and thin enough to be an Epic ship, not to mention lacking hardpoints or space for teams etc.

It would also struggle to fit into any of the current packaging shapes in x-wing.

I doubt it's coming to the game unless they seriously mess with its scale.

A scale down or new base classification.

15 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

The aka'jor would fit as a Large ship.

I still maintain that the Kom'rk/Gauntlet doesn't fit into X-Wing at all. It's way too big to be a standard-play ship, and it's not long and thin enough to be an Epic ship, not to mention lacking hardpoints or space for teams etc.

It would also struggle to fit into any of the current packaging shapes in x-wing.

I doubt it's coming to the game unless they seriously mess with its scale.

Yeah I realise it would be the largest large base ship in the game, but I don't think it's so big that its a complete write-off. The smallest model of the Kom'rk is only about 9 metres longer than the Ghost and its pretty much all wing. if you take into account how wide the Upsilon Shuttle is with its wings down that's quite a big ship as well, even though it has a small fuselage. The Kom'rk is similar in that regard and also has articulating wings. I mean you might be right and FFG might not even bother due to the scale, but I really love the ship and I'd love to see it in the game (even at a reduced scale) .

12 hours ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

If I recall, these ships also had drop bays, we could get a new crew, or team, mandalorian commandos.

Give a boarding action, or attack. Mandalorian commandoes would work with all factions. Drop like a bomb, move at pilot skill zero, execute a 1 straight or bank. Cross the token, make an attack.

That would be awesome! I like the bomb/board idea although boarding doesn't really fit into the dogfight play too well.

Maybe 'Mandalorian Jet Trooper' or similar, that goes a little something like this; 'After executing a manoeuvre, you choose an enemy ship at Range 1, if you do, you may discard this card to deal that ship 1 damage and remove all of its focus, evade, and blue target lock tokens.'

I think that kinda gives it a 'boarding party' sort of feel but in keeping with X-wing dynamics. Maybe 2pts because its a discard?

On 8/28/2017 at 1:02 AM, BadMotivator said:

Mass =/= hull.

I view Hull as the ability of a ship to sustain damage. Unlike the Falcon, this ship seems like it would be fairly fragile for it's size, while the Falcon is built like a brick.

It being an agile ship that can't quite take a hit makes sense.

Im super confused... you think that a y-wing with its armor plating stripped off and a warship bigger than the ghost should have nearly identical stats?

youre talking one extra hull for a warship dozens of times the mass

10 hours ago, Vontoothskie said:

Im super confused... you think that a y-wing with its armor plating stripped off and a warship bigger than the ghost should have nearly identical stats?

youre talking one extra hull for a warship dozens of times the mass

1) Mass =/= hull, if it did, the jm5k and YT-2400 would be running around at 6-7 hull, because they have more mass than a Y-wing. 2) the y-wings seen in the original trilogy do not have their armor ripped off, they are actually built that way, that is their armor.

10 hours ago, Vontoothskie said:

Im super confused... you think that a y-wing with its armor plating stripped off and a warship bigger than the ghost should have nearly identical stats?

youre talking one extra hull for a warship dozens of times the mass

I wouldn't really call it a warship. It's a fighter/troop transport. Its large but its not a tank. I think you need to look at it in comparison to the rest of the large ships. The Falcon and Ghost have a lot of eHP but they are both freighters, and heavily modified freighters at that. The YT-2400, Shadow Caster and Slave 1 all have 10 eHP, and the Jumpmaster has 9eHP. Then you have the U-wing (which is probably its closest comparison) with only 8 eHP. I think the Gauntlet would be considered one of the fastest and most agile out of all of them, its not a barge like the VCX-100 or YT-1300. It also has 2 agility, more than the Corellian ships, and more than your comparison of the Y-wing. Add to that the crew slot which gives all factions access to either damage mitigation or restoration. The likes Chewbacca and R2-D2 on the rebel side; Ysanne and Palp on the imperial; Gonk and Latts all help with avoiding or enduring damage. Both Ezra and Maul's abilities whilst stressed also make it a lot more tanky than the stat line suggests. I think to give it any more health would make it unbalanced, especially for the squad cost.

Re. the Kom'rk's scale -- has anybody confirmed that 52 m is accurate? I know we've scaled the A-wing a million times off of screengrabs, but I have my doubts about the Kom'rk being quite so large. Also, even at that size, it's only 1.5" bigger than the ghost, and the Upsilon has basically already cleared the way for massive wingspans.

There's a pretty cool Aka'jor up on Shapeways, btw.

*cough* I'm biased because I made it. *cough*

'only'. The ghost is already so fricking huge it had to have a special stand and it's still a pain in the rear to actually have at the table.