11 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:

I knew this. I asked cause the timing cause is the same involved on Raddus Bomb. Sorry not being more specific.

How that would interact with the first paragraph of HA's FAQ?

That FAQ state that stuff set aside CANNOT be affected by effects what would be contradictory with the card that actually set aside stuff. Of course we have to agree that they are inmune to OTHER effects cause it wouldn't work if not. I just noticed the incoherence there. Or maybe I understood something wrong.

I don't quite understand your question here, so I am going to make assumptions and hope I'm interpreting correct.

The statement that you are questoning is this:

"Ships and squadrons set aside are not in play. Their abilities and upgrades are inactive and they cannot be affected by any abilities."

The reason why the Raddus Bomb "works", in the way that you can pack everything away, is you are affecting the Ships with the abilities before they go into the next step in the resolution chain. That doesn't then undo the resolution of the previous rule.

Which is why it is important to have the bomb, effectively, resolve in the following Order at the start of the game:

1) Initially - Squadrons are placed in Rapid Launch Bays as required.
2) Following that resolution, a Small ship is placed off board due to the presence of the "Profundity" Title. This does not cancel "1)."
3) Following that resolution, the MC75 with the "Profundity" title is placed off board due to the presence of Admiral Raddus. Placing this off board does not cancel the completed resolution of the Profundity title... It stops the Profundity title from Resolving at that point, but as it has already been resolved, you are not resolving it.
4) Place the Small/Medium ship with Admiral Raddus off-board due to the presence of Hyperspace Assault. Doing so will prevent Admiral Raddus from Resolving, but as he has already resolved , this doesn't matter.

Now, as it stands, all of those ships off board have rules that cannot be resolved as they are not on the board. They cannot be chosen or effected by rules unless specifically stated... Which is why they would then have to come out in order , as their rules for being placed on the board will not exist until such time as those rules are ON the board.

So the Hyperspace Assault FAQ is stating that while you are off the board, you cannot be affected by rules... What it doesn't say is any rules you are effected by are cancelled ... So if you have something that happens before Hyperspace Assault Does, you could resolve it before Hyperspaec Assault, and the Resolution would remain .

But once you are in Hyperspace, think of it is "nothing new can happen". Its not a perfect analogy by a long shot, but it kind of like:

- In Hyperspace assault, I cannot throw purple paint at you.
- Before Hyperspace assault, I can throw Purple paint at you.

If I throw purple paint at you before Hyperspace assault... You will have Purple Paint on you. Just because you can't now have purple paint thrown at you won't stop you from being purple beforehand.

... I hope in a roundabout way, that answers the questioon.

If you take the absolute strictest reading of "Their abilities are inactive" in meaning that any resolutions are cancelled , which is at least theoretically possible... Then it has other things like Rapid Launch Bays not being able to store squadrons in Hyperspace Assault, which has been suggested to be allowed by the rules...

And of course, at that point, you need to make an assumption as to what to do with them, because nowhere does it state what happens... Are they destroyed? Are they deployed as normal? They were set aside, and now they are not. Are they ready to be deployed? There is no strict wording to define it... (And I contend that if you're going to demand strict wording at one point of a rule, then you must demand strict wording the rest of the time. You don't get to be Authoritarian at the start and laissez faire where you get the advantage...)

So we have a conflicting conundrum at that point, which would require specific FAQs for everything to state whether it is allowed or not... Including for any and all new abilities that are created from that point on.

10 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

I don't quite understand your question here, so I am going to make assumptions and hope I'm interpreting correct.

The statement that you are questoning is this:

"Ships and squadrons set aside are not in play. Their abilities and upgrades are inactive and they cannot be affected by any abilities."

The reason why the Raddus Bomb "works", in the way that you can pack everything away, is you are affecting the Ships with the abilities before they go into the next step in the resolution chain. That doesn't then undo the resolution of the previous rule.

Which is why it is important to have the bomb, effectively, resolve in the following Order at the start of the game:

1) Initially - Squadrons are placed in Rapid Launch Bays as required.
2) Following that resolution, a Small ship is placed off board due to the presence of the "Profundity" Title. This does not cancel "1)."
3) Following that resolution, the MC75 with the "Profundity" title is placed off board due to the presence of Admiral Raddus. Placing this off board does not cancel the completed resolution of the Profundity title... It stops the Profundity title from Resolving at that point, but as it has already been resolved, you are not resolving it.
4) Place the Small/Medium ship with Admiral Raddus off-board due to the presence of Hyperspace Assault. Doing so will prevent Admiral Raddus from Resolving, but as he has already resolved , this doesn't matter.

Now, as it stands, all of those ships off board have rules that cannot be resolved as they are not on the board. They cannot be chosen or effected by rules unless specifically stated... Which is why they would then have to come out in order , as their rules for being placed on the board will not exist until such time as those rules are ON the board.

So the Hyperspace Assault FAQ is stating that while you are off the board, you cannot be affected by rules... What it doesn't say is any rules you are effected by are cancelled ... So if you have something that happens before Hyperspace Assault Does, you could resolve it before Hyperspaec Assault, and the Resolution would remain .

But once you are in Hyperspace, think of it is "nothing new can happen". Its not a perfect analogy by a long shot, but it kind of like:

- In Hyperspace assault, I cannot throw purple paint at you.
- Before Hyperspace assault, I can throw Purple paint at you.

If I throw purple paint at you before Hyperspace assault... You will have Purple Paint on you. Just because you can't now have purple paint thrown at you won't stop you from being purple beforehand.

... I hope in a roundabout way, that answers the questioon.

If you take the absolute strictest reading of "Their abilities are inactive" in meaning that any resolutions are cancelled , which is at least theoretically possible... Then it has other things like Rapid Launch Bays not being able to store squadrons in Hyperspace Assault, which has been suggested to be allowed by the rules...

And of course, at that point, you need to make an assumption as to what to do with them, because nowhere does it state what happens... Are they destroyed? Are they deployed as normal? They were set aside, and now they are not. Are they ready to be deployed? There is no strict wording to define it... (And I contend that if you're going to demand strict wording at one point of a rule, then you must demand strict wording the rest of the time. You don't get to be Authoritarian at the start and laissez faire where you get the advantage...)

So we have a conflicting conundrum at that point, which would require specific FAQs for everything to state whether it is allowed or not... Including for any and all new abilities that are created from that point on.

My question about the FAQ was not related with the Raddus Bomb. It was just one thing I found but I see the point you said about the HA already resolved and just waiting for the last effect. That was what I missed. It works for me. Thanks.

The only question related with Raddus was the Garm Bel thing cause I thought that, maybe, someone found himself throwing Garm Bel from hyperspace at the beginning of a round when Garm would give tokens and, maybe, we got a precedence about it that would help with the Matryoska issue. If not we still wait for the official clarification.

Just now, ovinomanc3r said:

My question about the FAQ was not related with the Raddus Bomb. It was just one thing I found but I see the point you said about the HA already resolved and just waiting for the last effect. That was what I missed. It works for me. Thanks.

The only question related with Raddus was the Garm Bel thing cause I thought that, maybe, someone found himself throwing Garm Bel from hyperspace at the beginning of a round when Garm would give tokens and, maybe, we got a precedence about it that would help with the Matryoska issue. If not we still wait for the official clarification.

It is the same question, basically, if you bring a Ship containing Garm Bel Iblis on to the board at the Start of Turn 5......

So for actual clarification, there is no official wording as of yet...

I'm totally on board with it working... I do fear there will be... "people"... who play a certain way with this power, however...

3 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

So for actual clarification, there is no official wording as of yet...

Neither from a tournament? It is a very corner case but it is since wave 1.

We don't play enough

2 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:

Neither from a tournament? It is a very corner case but it is since wave 1.

We don't play enough

Garm Bel Iblis has never been very popular.

Hyperspace Assault as never been very popular.

Even with Hyperspace assault, delaying until turn 5 has never been very popular.

The scenario where you have Garm Bel Iblis at a Tournament, in Hyperspace Assault, Until Turn 5 ...

Well, you've got a better chance of successfully navigating an Asteroid Field. Even without Plot Armour.

I would contend that it is potentially one of, if not the most corner case in the game we've discussed thusfar

Since the issue only occurs when Garm Himself is in Hyperspace. A Ship coming out of Hyperspace assault at the Start of Turn 5 while Garm is already on the board is a Recipient for Garm's Tokens.

3 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Garm Bel Iblis has never been very popular.

Hyperspace Assault as never been very popular.

Even with Hyperspace assault, delaying until turn 5 has never been very popular.

The scenario where you have Garm Bel Iblis at a Tournament, in Hyperspace Assault, Until Turn 5 ...

Well, you've got a better chance of successfully navigating an Asteroid Field. Even without Plot Armour.

I would contend that it is potentially one of, if not the most corner case in the game we've discussed thusfar

Since the issue only occurs when Garm Himself is in Hyperspace. A Ship coming out of Hyperspace assault at the Start of Turn 5 while Garm is already on the board is a Recipient for Garm's Tokens.

You played double dictors and with success so that asteroids field was navigated already isn't it?

Just now, ovinomanc3r said:

You played double dictors and with success so that asteroids field was navigated already isn't it?

Moving the asteroid field out of the way doesn't count as navigating through it.

Resolved by FAQ.

Resolved in that it is allowed?

The three relevant FAQ points are:

Q: During Setup, can ships and squadrons resolve card effects before they have been deployed? A: Yes. During Setup, ships and squadrons that have not yet been deployed are in play, and their ship, squadron, and upgrade cards are active, unless that ship or squadron has been destroyed or set aside.

Q: Is a player defeated if they do not have any ships in play, but do have ships that are set aside due to a card effect? A: Yes. All of that player’s set-aside ships and squadrons are destroyed. In official tournaments, this occurs at the end of the game round.

Q: If a ship or squadron was set aside and is deployed at the start of a game round by an ability or upgrade card effect, can it resolve abilities and upgrade card effects at the start of that round? A: Yes, as long as those abilities could be resolved at the start of the round in which that ship or squadron was deployed

If I read this right... this would mean that the Raddus bomb can work with the caveat that you would need to deploy at least one ship onto the table prior to start of round one. The rest of the set aside ships could then come in as you originally laid out start of round 2?

On 04/02/2018 at 12:49 AM, aaronsa86 said:

Resolved in that it is allowed?

The three relevant FAQ points are:

Q: During Setup, can ships and squadrons resolve card effects before they have been deployed? A: Yes. During Setup, ships and squadrons that have not yet been deployed are in play, and their ship, squadron, and upgrade cards are active, unless that ship or squadron has been destroyed or set aside.

Q: Is a player defeated if they do not have any ships in play, but do have ships that are set aside due to a card effect? A: Yes. All of that player’s set-aside ships and squadrons are destroyed. In official tournaments, this occurs at the end of the game round.

Q: If a ship or squadron was set aside and is deployed at the start of a game round by an ability or upgrade card effect, can it resolve abilities and upgrade card effects at the start of that round? A: Yes, as long as those abilities could be resolved at the start of the round in which that ship or squadron was deployed

If I read this right... this would mean that the Raddus bomb can work with the caveat that you would need to deploy at least one ship onto the table prior to start of round one. The rest of the set aside ships could then come in as you originally laid out start of round 2?

The FAQ stated that you can’t start the game with no ships in play I think

Question related to all this but I don't seem to see being asked yet:

If I have three ships set aside - 1 due to Raddus, 1 due to Profundity and 1 due to HA do they HAVE to be deployed by the effect that set them aside or can they deployed by a different effect? I suspect the deployments are specific to the effect but thought I'd ask.

Example:

CR-90 with Raddus, MC-75 with Profundity, HH and an AF MkII

My opponent chooses Hyperspace assault.

Using HA I set aside the AF Mk II

Using Profundity I set aside the HH

Using Raddus I set aside the MC-75

I deploy the CR-90

Question is - could I deploy the AF Mk II with Raddus rather than HA? Could I deploy the HH using HA or can it only be deployed using Profundity?

The effect that puts them aside gives the ONLY way they can be deployed... so yes, they MUST be in the designated order with those designated effects...

30 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

The effect that puts them aside gives the ONLY way they can be deployed... so yes, they MUST be in the designated order with those designated effects...

Thought that would be the case - thanks for replying.

A Q came up last night - opening salvo, do the set aside ships receive the token, as they are set aside and not on the board at the end of deplayment.

They will not - as you stated, after deployment, they are set aside , and thus, not in play to gain the token.

The secondary effect at end of game will still count though.