6 minutes ago, codegnave said:

Could someone better at the game than me(anyone really) tell me how Darth Vader's cost compares to Cham Syndulla's?

He is 2 points cheaper and his ability seems much more 'plug and play' than Cham's. He also fits on more ships. Are the costs out of sync with each other or am I misunderstanding?

Darth depends an awful lot on how important the upgrade is. Removing more expensive upgrades is obviously more powerful, but if all you get to do is discard a cheap or circumstantial upgrade it's not as big of a deal.

Cham depends an awful lot on how deep the other ship's command stack goes. Hosing a heavy ship's command stack for 3 turns straight is potentially extremely good. Messing with a 1 Command ship's single dial is a trickier Slicer Tools and is not that great.

Honestly I think the costs are reasonable but it's meta-dependent.

12 minutes ago, codegnave said:

Could someone better at the game than me(anyone really) tell me how Darth Vader's cost compares to Cham Syndulla's?

He is 2 points cheaper and his ability seems much more 'plug and play' than Cham's. He also fits on more ships. Are the costs out of sync with each other or am I misunderstanding?

IMO, Vader is certainly under costed. There will always be a good target for him, even if it's not as amazing as forcing Admo or Demo to be discarded. Forcing XI7, Leading Shots, Boosted Comms, Intel Officer, or any other high value upgrade is worth it.

Cham is weird. If you face a command 3, he's really good. If you don't, well, you have an expensive Slicer Tools.

Thank you both. Hopefully the new commanders bring more big ships into the forefront for Cham to shine!

2 minutes ago, codegnave said:

Thank you both. Hopefully the new commanders bring more big ships into the forefront for Cham to shine!

That's a good point! People playing new ISDs means Cham can get some game time.

Just now, Undeadguy said:

That's a good point! People playing new ISDs means Cham can get some game time.

Yea, and I keep seeing people mention using Raddus to bring in a Liberty or something similar, so Cham could mess that up somewhat.

1 hour ago, codegnave said:

Yea, and I keep seeing people mention using Raddus to bring in a Liberty or something similar, so Cham could mess that up somewhat.

oh i cant wait for this now. Yeah, you bring in your Liberty, but I go first. Let me tell you what his Commands are going to be....

1 hour ago, geek19 said:

oh i cant wait for this now. Yeah, you bring in your Liberty, but I go first. Let me tell you what his Commands are going to be....

It's a well-known fact that LMC80s deep down have been dying to command squadrons. Their parents told them not to bother due to Squadrons 2, their teachers told them about how the Liberty title student they had years ago went on to do nothing of value with his life by obsessing over his inadequacies, but deep down every LMC80 knows that they are going to be that special LMC80 that commands squadrons like a boss. Cham is just here to give them that pep talk they need: "Navigate commands? Repair commands? Why would you need something like that? Listen to your heart. Squadron commands all the way down! Believe in yourself!"

7 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

It's a well-known fact that LMC80s deep down have been dying to command squadrons. Their parents told them not to bother due to Squadrons 2, their teachers told them about how the Liberty title student they had years ago went on to do nothing of value with his life by obsessing over his inadequacies, but deep down every LMC80 knows that they are going to be that special LMC80 that commands squadrons like a boss. Cham is just here to give them that pep talk they need: "Navigate commands? Repair commands? Why would you need something like that? Listen to your heart. Squadron commands all the way down! Believe in yourself!"

It's like how every time I encounter a Demolisher with my Slicer Tools flotilla, I help him become the squadron pusher he always wanted to be!

7 minutes ago, geek19 said:

It's like how every time I encounter a Demolisher with my Slicer Tools flotilla, I help him become the squadron pusher he always wanted to be!

I've actually used squadron commands to great effect on Demo

1 minute ago, Belegon said:

I've actually used squadron commands to great effect on Demo

For some STRANGE reason, my opponents never seem to like having their Navigate command change into the squadron command they wanted all along! I wish I could figure out WHY they don't like being helped into commanding squadrons. Ah well, the mysteries of life.

Well I tend to run my Demo in a list with 5 flotilas and bunch of squadrons, plus I tend to keep a token for exactly that reason.

8 hours ago, geek19 said:

It's like how every time I encounter a Demolisher with my Slicer Tools flotilla, I help him become the squadron pusher he always wanted to be!

Still amazed that, post Slicer Tools, people aren't running Navigation Officer on their Demo.

1 minute ago, Democratus said:

Still amazed that, post Slicer Tools, people aren't running Navigation Officer on their Demo.

I'm the only one in Chicago who does run slicer tools, and it's not in every list. I just find it fun/monstrous, personally.

8 minutes ago, Democratus said:

Still amazed that, post Slicer Tools, people aren't running Navigation Officer on their Demo.

I run Skilled First Officer on Demolisher (when I'm not using Intel Officer). The command control and Slicer Tools insurance for 1 point is pretty swell.

John does seem to be the only person locally who still runs Slicer Tools, though. Even at tournaments we've gone to I don't see anyone else using them anymore.

10 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

I run Skilled First Officer on Demolisher (when I'm not using Intel Officer). The command control and Slicer Tools insurance for 1 point is pretty swell.

John does seem to be the only person locally who still runs Slicer Tools, though. Even at tournaments we've gone to I don't see anyone else using them anymore.

Which to me is so weird. Turning off Quasars or Star Destroyers of various types is good times.

I tried Slicer Tools for a while. Most of the time I felt I was better off not taking it, with the exception of facing squadron lists. Even then, do I change the ISD dial to Nav, CF or Repair, all of which are good options since it has taken damage and is at range of my ships. I tend to think Nav is the safest in that case but I've had it go wrong. At best, my opponent has no squads and now they get to push squads all game.

It's very hit/miss for me. And Thrawn negates Slicer Tools completely.

5 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

I tried Slicer Tools for a while. Most of the time I felt I was better off not taking it, with the exception of facing squadron lists. Even then, do I change the ISD dial to Nav, CF or Repair, all of which are good options since it has taken damage and is at range of my ships. I tend to think Nav is the safest in that case but I've had it go wrong. At best, my opponent has no squads and now they get to push squads all game.

It's very hit/miss for me. And Thrawn negates Slicer Tools completely.

He does and doesn't. If you know what he's revealing then you change the other dial to that too. Or change what it wants. If it REALLY needed those squadrons being pushed, it wanted to CF instead.

Here, weirdly, there's very little squadron play, so changing dials to that at least makes my opponent start to realize that he should start bringing some squadrons to the game instead of not doing that. Also it's hilarious throwing squadrons on Mc30s or Demo. So angry!

3 minutes ago, geek19 said:

He does and doesn't. If you know what he's revealing then you change the other dial to that too. Or change what it wants. If it REALLY needed those squadrons being pushed, it wanted to CF instead.

Here, weirdly, there's very little squadron play, so changing dials to that at least makes my opponent start to realize that he should start bringing some squadrons to the game instead of not doing that. Also it's hilarious throwing squadrons on Mac30s or Demo. So angry!

I've only pulled it off a couple of times, but the best thing in life is slicing off that critical nav command and helping your enemy fly off into hyperspace.

5 minutes ago, geek19 said:

He does and doesn't. If you know what he's revealing then you change the other dial to that too. Or change what it wants. If it REALLY needed those squadrons being pushed, it wanted to CF instead.

Here, weirdly, there's very little squadron play, so changing dials to that at least makes my opponent start to realize that he should start bringing some squadrons to the game instead of not doing that. Also it's hilarious throwing squadrons on Mc30s or Demo. So angry!

Ah I suppose you're right. Thrawn reveals at the start so you know what to slice into. At least you can take the token and have a dial. It's like a cheap Leia for Imps, who also happens to be better.

6 minutes ago, geek19 said:

Here, weirdly, there's very little squadron play, so changing dials to that at least makes my opponent start to realize that he should start bringing some squadrons to the game instead of not doing that. Also it's hilarious throwing squadrons on Mc30s or Demo. So angry!

I think you're remembering mostly Mike who infamously runs very few squadrons, but I can't say I agree overall. Especially since the Quasar came out I'm seeing at least 4 squadrons per side in most games I've been playing lately, often 6-8.

10 hours ago, Snipafist said:

It's a well-known fact that LMC80s deep down have been dying to command squadrons. Their parents told them not to bother due to Squadrons 2, their teachers told them about how the Liberty title student they had years ago went on to do nothing of value with his life by obsessing over his inadequacies, but deep down every LMC80 knows that they are going to be that special LMC80 that commands squadrons like a boss. Cham is just here to give them that pep talk they need: "Navigate commands? Repair commands? Why would you need something like that? Listen to your heart. Squadron commands all the way down! Believe in yourself!"

One game against @Valca he got the crit to change my dial to a squadron command.....

Suffice to say the two A-Wings at medium range managed to kill one ship and tie down the YT-2400 allowing the liberty to limp away for the win. Don't knock those squadron commands.....

1 minute ago, jamie nasmyth said:

One game against @Valca he got the crit to change my dial to a squadron command.....

Suffice to say the two A-Wings at medium range managed to kill one ship and tie down the YT-2400 allowing the liberty to limp away for the win. Don't knock those squadron commands.....

True story: once I had a Gozanti destroy my opponent's flagship Gladiator.

That doesn't mean Gozantis are combat ships. Neither does that mean an LMC80 is a capable carrier. There's a time and place for everything but we're dealing in generalities here.

2 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

True story: once I had a Gozanti destroy my opponent's flagship Gladiator.

That doesn't mean Gozantis are combat ships. Neither does that mean an LMC80 is a capable carrier. There's a time and place for everything but we're dealing in generalities here.

My Gozantis are combat ships. 2 double arc with CF is 6 dice for 46 points. Even better against MW ships where they throw 5 dice.

I love Gozantis. Nice burst of power, typically enough to tip the scales into my favor.

14 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

I think you're remembering mostly Mike who infamously runs very few squadrons, but I can't say I agree overall. Especially since the Quasar came out I'm seeing at least 4 squadrons per side in most games I've been playing lately, often 6-8.

Sam too, but yeah. Also, somewhat where the fighters are faaaaaaar away from Demo thanks to placement or whatever. He just wants to command them!

14 hours ago, codegnave said:

Could someone better at the game than me(anyone really) tell me how Darth Vader's cost compares to Cham Syndulla's?

He is 2 points cheaper and his ability seems much more 'plug and play' than Cham's. He also fits on more ships. Are the costs out of sync with each other or am I misunderstanding?

Feels that way to me, somewhat - Vader will have a good upgrade to remove in almost 100% of games, not the case for Cham (who becomes a one-off Slicer Tools against swarms). Even a CR90 losing a TRC is probably a worthwhile use of Vader if there's nothing better to grab, assuming he gets close enough. Vader also spikes harder - losing Demolisher (or Profundity!) or some other keystone upgrade can ruin a fleet's game plan. On the other hand, Cham is countered by a generic 4 point officer.

That said, keep in mind the cheapest Cham platform is a full 8 points cheaper than the cheapest Vader platform.