1 minute ago, thecactusman17 said:

Just to be clear, you don't?

Gotta take 8 squads to do that. Why am I taking 8 squads?

Just now, Undeadguy said:

Gotta take 8 squads to do that. Why am I taking 8 squads?

Because its still less than half of your total potential allocation?

And one **** of an Alpha.

2 hours ago, Green Knight said:

How is this confusing?

It indicates that RAW there's no inherant restriction on the dials being combined.

3 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Because its still less than half of your total potential allocation?

And one **** of an Alpha.

Feed me the points!

2 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

Feed me the points!

You think you can drop them all with Anti-Ship firepower in one turn?

Because I'm pretty sure since I can send 'em all in one turn, do the alpha damage, and then bring them all OUT again the next turn to go hang out at the statio - I'm comeing ahead in the trade.

Of course, in ANY case, its completely Ludicrous, and I wouldn't be doing it...

... Even if 8 Defenders is Tempting.

1 hour ago, Undeadguy said:

Wow I'm so ******* happy Thrawn completely bashes Leia's ability. For 32 points all my ships get 2 different dials with no token restriction, compared to 38 points and getting a token and dial, with token restriction.

This is seriously stupid. I thought Leia and Tarkin were over costed, but this is the first legitimate sign of power creep in Armada.

This really pisses me off.

Leia's ability can be used in all 6 rounds, Thrawn's ability can only be used in 3 rounds and all ships in your fleet is tied to the same dial ability, wheather they need it or not.

So Leia's ability is more flexible on individual ships, while Thrawn's ability is more general for all ships.

1 minute ago, Drasnighta said:

You think you can drop them all with Anti-Ship firepower in one turn?

Because I'm pretty sure since I can send 'em all in one turn, do the alpha damage, and then bring them all OUT again the next turn to go hang out at the statio - I'm comeing ahead in the trade.

Honestly it's fine with me. I've been playing with no squads, or just Ciena/Valen, since wave 5 dropped. I'm willing to make sacrifices as a true Imperial.

There is zero chance you're going to get double squadron dials, guys.

Zero.

Ref: designer's intent . Also the RRG.

Just now, Undeadguy said:

Honestly it's fine with me. I've been playing with no squads, or just Ciena/Valen, since wave 5 dropped. I'm willing to make sacrifices as a true Imperial.

Basically, As a Rebel, I don't want to see it happen. There's too much abuse there.

17 minutes ago, thecactusman17 said:

It indicates that RAW there's no inherant restriction on the dials being combined.

No it doesn't. It requires you to have a command other than squad. To avoid the awkward implication that you CAN spend to dials for combined effect.

So it reinforces RAW - and gives players a break.

Excellent.

32 minutes ago, Xeletor said:

Ok it is not. Persuant and thrawn have very different text. No way to infer thrawns mechanic from persuant. Maybe raises the question about a persuant squad command together with a thrawn squad command. Not looking forward to that discussion.

No more confusing then Leia + a matching token. It just doesn't exist.

9 minutes ago, Green Knight said:

No it doesn't. It requires you to have a command other than squad. To avoid the awkward implication that you CAN spend to dials for combined effect.

So it reinforces RAW - and gives players a break.

Excellent.

Ok, maybe i’m misreading the card. Does Thrawn give everyone an additional command dial to spend, or does he replace everyone's dial?

2 minutes ago, thecactusman17 said:

Ok, maybe i’m misreading the card. Does Thrawn give everyone an additional command dial to spend, or does he replace everyone's dial?

Additional

43 minutes ago, thecactusman17 said:

Just to be clear, you don't?

Maybe I just don't want you to.

21 minutes ago, thecactusman17 said:

Ok, maybe i’m misreading the card. Does Thrawn give everyone an additional command dial to spend, or does he replace everyone's dial?

An extra dial.

Then what is preventing a player from getting the additional dial effect?

2 minutes ago, thecactusman17 said:

Then what is preventing a player from getting the additional dial effect?

The same thing preventing Leia + matching token.

It doesn't exist.

2 minutes ago, thecactusman17 said:

Then what is preventing a player from getting the additional dial effect?

You get the additional dial effect. But as you're only able to resolve a command once, and the fact that a dial is a command on its own, you're not able to have two identical dials.

Can totally have two differnet dials. Can totally stack those dials with respective tokens... But two Dials cannot be stacked for a double effect, as its not permitted in the Rules.

That is both the RAW and the RAI as JJ has informed us, as the card designer.

Functionally, the only thing currently preventing Leia is that the scenario isn't explicitly shown in the RRG. It can be FAQ'd to read however they'd like.

Just now, thecactusman17 said:

Functionally, the only thing currently preventing Leia is that the scenario isn't explicitly shown in the RRG. It can be FAQ'd to read however they'd like.

Sure. But you're not debating rules, you're debating something else, when you're factoring in hypotheticals that aren't actually rules, no matter how 'as of yet' they are.

7 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Sure. But you're not debating rules, you're debating something else, when you're factoring in hypotheticals that aren't actually rules, no matter how 'as of yet' they are.

You're right. Hypothetically, Thrawns card text won't change. Assuming that stays the case, what is mechanically in the RRG to prevent Thrawn's dial from being combined with the other dial.

What we know: it isn't a second command, because gaining a dial doen't count as a command and revealing a dial doesn't count as spending it for a command by itself. It's not that you cannot reveal two dials, because if it was then Thrawn doesn't function at all. It isn't a matter of multiple similar commands, because tokens are themselves a command and the basis for counting multiple commands as a single command, even when they have different effects. It's not order of operations, because there's nothing that prevents a player from sending the command token before they spend the dial.

So mechanically, what's restraining this hypothetically final card text from being combined with an identical command dial?

Just now, thecactusman17 said:

You're right. Hypothetically, Thrawns card text won't change. Assuming that stays the case, what is mechanically in the RRG to prevent Thrawn's dial from being combined with the other dial.

What we know: it isn't a second command, because gaining a dial doen't count as a command and revealing a dial doesn't count as spending it for a command by itself. It's not that you cannot reveal two dials, because if it was then Thrawn doesn't function at all. It isn't a matter of multiple similar commands, because tokens are themselves a command and the basis for counting multiple commands as a single command, even when they have different effects. It's not order of operations, because there's nothing that prevents a player from sending the command token before they spend the dial.

So mechanically, what's restraining this hypothetically final card text from being combined with an identical command dial?

That like the Leia argument - there is no rules statement on how to apply it that way. Unless some way is written to state that Two Dials can be combined into a single command (The way that Dials and Tokens can be), either the Second Dial has to be its own separate command, or , it literally does nothing, because its not a command and can never be used, combined, or activated as a command.

When two sides are "does something" and "does nothing"*, I err on the "does something".

*Of course, that's when the answer is literally nothing, not, "not as much as I want."... Nothing.

So I answered my own question.

RRG pg4, Commands:

• A ship can spend both a command dial and a command
token to combine their effects. Doing so counts as a
single resolution of the command. For example, a ship
can increase its speed twice by spending a M command
dial and a M command token.

So the reason Thrawn doesn't work to double his own commands, mechanically, is because per the RRG players only combine the effects if they spend a dial and token at the same time explicitly to do so. All other forms of commands are separate commands.

2 hours ago, JJs Juggernaut said:

Well let's also remember Leia and tarkin work for 6 rounds. Thrawn is only 3. That said, I think both the aforementioned admirals are overcosted...devs make mistakes too...

I think its has alot to do with how the game works as well. While pure math would say working on 6 rounds gives you the edge against 3 round. Realistically on practice its rare the 6 rounds will be combat and that important. Most of my games are decided in 2-3 turns, between turn 2-5. Thwarn can take full opportunity of the important rounds, when a player has some experience, we all know when these rounds happen in most games.

Thrawn does seem either overpowered and under priced. (I mean, he should be amazingly awesome don't get me wrong, and I appreciate that he finally made it!). At first I read his price as 42, which seems to make more sense, 32 to sees very cheap.

I also at first thought his dial would just be given to one ship each round, which would still be very powerful! That's 3 extra commands to give at the crucial moment! Still amazing. But EVERY ship having the possibility for two dials for 3 whole rounds and all for the price of Sato! That seems bananas to me.

Also the days of slicer tools and Cham Syndulla seem over, or at least much less worth while, in the era of Thrawn.