On 9/1/2017 at 11:14 AM, cielago said:

We won't get "spider", and a classic horde faction is hard to imagine workin in the current game, but those hoping there won't be some kind of corrupted mechanic/faction (featuring by the classic shadowlands/spider leadership) are going to be sorely disappointed.

I haven't read every single thread, but while I've seen a lot of people arguing against a corrupted faction in the sense of "on par with and equivalent to a Great Clan in the card game," I don't recall seeing a single person arguing against a corrupted mechanic . Quite the contrary: lots of people have been rooting for that idea, for a whole host of reasons ranging from game balance to narrative subtlety. There may well be exceptions (as I said, I haven't read every thread), but on the whole, people seem to be in favor of having corruption represented that way.

And this is why I think using "Spider" as the moniker for Whatever Might Happen With Corruption in Nu5R is just muddying the waters more and more, to no particularly good end. There are plenty of cool things to do with Bloodspeakers, the Shadowlands, and everything Taint-related that aren't the Spider as we knew them.

14 hours ago, KerenRhys said:

The problem being that not everybody has the same notion of what would be awesome, far from it.

In that case, it does not matter what they do.

On 9/1/2017 at 2:14 PM, cielago said:

well, hate to be the bearer of bad news (not really, but its the polite thing to say) but we've already seen Daigotsu (sort of?) in the new story, and his girl Shahai is headed to the imperial palace to meet him.

We won't get "spider", and a classic horde faction is hard to imagine workin in the current game, but those hoping there won't be some kind of corrupted mechanic/faction (featuring by the classic shadowlands/spider leadership) are going to be sorely disappointed. They were a part of the game as much as much as any otehr clan, and FFG is going to mine them just like every other part of the story. Especially considering the large (larger than any other clan's by the end of the ccg) and rabid spider fanbase.

He had another son in the story, but not one that had been captured by the shadowlands (but at least this time he won't have to be retconned into existence). I have no idea what the fanbase looked like at the end of the CCG. I (and most of the players I know) gave up on the game by that point as the story was just bad by that point, in large part because of the Spider story.

Do you really think they're going to bring back all 15 clans from the original CCG? As a Naga and Ratling player, I really hope they don't. Too many factions dilutes story opportunities, writer talent, card pools, etc. If they add a faction, they need to consider it very carefully.

Somebody after GenCon said that, they did non-confirm that two factions were coming to the game, one was already chosen, and the other would be storyline tournament chosen. Again, non-confirmed.

Lest we forget the story has been reset (and BADLY needed to be). It may not develop the same way as before if for no other reason than the annual player decisions that directly alter the path of the story.

As for players not coming over because of the mechanics being changed, I find it laughable. People played the CCG IN SPITE OF the mechanics not because of them. The story was the lure; the original mechanics were problematic at best. FFG has done a good job of creating a mechanically sound, interesting game that kept as much of the CCG mechanics as it could while fixing the massive problems (the CCG was one of the biggest examples of "snowballing" in the hobby) and integrating elements like the Rings more tightly into the play.

1 hour ago, Joelist said:

(the CCG was one of the biggest examples of "snowballing" in the hobby) and integrating elements like the Rings more tightly into the play.

You mean having the loser lose everything in a battle while the attacker loses nothing was a bad idea?

Also, O didn't realize until I started playing the LCG just how unimportant the rings were in the CCG. I rarely ever even ran one of them.

20 minutes ago, DarwinsDog said:

You mean having the loser lose everything in a battle while the attacker loses nothing was a bad idea?

Also, O didn't realize until I started playing the LCG just how unimportant the rings were in the CCG. I rarely ever even ran one of them.

That and the "1 per deck" thing lol. Having 1 of a ring for your deck means, even if it is useful its not reliable. Same for unique characters omg I had forgotten how bad it was to have just 1 of a unique character in deck construction...

2 hours ago, Barbacuo said:

Somebody after GenCon said that, they did non-confirm that two factions were coming to the game, one was already chosen, and the other would be storyline tournament chosen. Again, non-confirmed.

Regardless, I doubt we'll see a new faction for awhile since we really need some tools for the current ones and to lay the story ground work. Starting a faction via Dynasty pack would also be problematic too. I'm guessing the first deluxe would be the perfect place to showcase the new faction.

I'm not counting a stronghold that links together particular traits as a faction, but as it's own thing. The main reason is that it would be far easier to introduce that type of card in a Dynasty pack compared to a brand new faction.

I'm interested in how they would introduce a new faction. I agree that a deluxe box would be the best way to introduce a new faction, as you can give them proper support for a full deck (no splash in dynasty means you need a LOT to build a deck) but if they utilize Strongholds to create themes like saying "any Imperial card counts as a card of your faction" or "Any Magistrate counts as a card of your faction" it could open up some really interesting decks...

I'd love it if there were alliance strongholds that were like Scorpion + Dragon but you get 0 influence.

FFG owns a lot of Mantis and Spider art. It's hard for me to believe that they won't eventually find a way to make use of those assets.

1 hour ago, Yoritomo Reiu said:

FFG owns a lot of Mantis and Spider art. It's hard for me to believe that they won't eventually find a way to make use of those assets.

I was going through a bunch of the personality cards for both clans and they might be tough at the moment. The Mantis have a problem with the Dragon being green now and many Spider cards have too much of their look (i.e. iconography) for usage right now too. There are some things that could be used without needing too many changes like the various sohei monks or non-humans.

2 hours ago, Yoritomo Reiu said:

FFG owns a lot of Mantis and Spider art. It's hard for me to believe that they won't eventually find a way to make use of those assets.

Well, they already used one Spider character for the Wandering Ronin, but I see what you mean.

3 hours ago, shosuko said:

Same for unique characters omg I had forgotten how bad it was to have just 1 of a unique character in deck construction...

Not only that........originally there could only be one copy of a unique character in play for both players. In the mirror match or when both players were using the same may neutral uniques, the person that went first was at an even bigger advantage. Watching games and because I'm person played their unique first was just stoopid. It had a profound effect on deckbuilding as many players opted not to include their own champs or other strong uniques for fear of not being able to play them. And have clever deckvuilders something to exploit. I'm so glad the LCG did not bring that nonsense back.

I can't wait to see how the role out all the stuff from the past that wasn't represented in the core set.

2 hours ago, Yoritomo Reiu said:

FFG owns a lot of Mantis and Spider art. It's hard for me to believe that they won't eventually find a way to make use of those assets.

So much this ^

11 hours ago, Yoritomo Reiu said:

FFG owns a lot of Mantis and Spider art. It's hard for me to believe that they won't eventually find a way to make use of those assets.

But do they own Yoritomo Tadame?

33 minutes ago, Fumo said:

But do they own Yoritomo Tadame?

Nobody knows. Surely FFG used some Baker's stuff in FFG, but seems that they use graphics from Celestial edition and onwards. Maybe original paintings or digital copies of pre-Celestial (like Lotus/Samurai's Tadame) don't exist?

13 hours ago, shosuko said:

That and the "1 per deck" thing lol. Having 1 of a ring for your deck means, even if it is useful its not reliable. Same for unique characters omg I had forgotten how bad it was to have just 1 of a unique character in deck construction...

Because Rings were something special and was really rare to use it as Victory Condition from clans not predestined for this VC? From all of games i played in CCG i remember my first enlightenment victory ever, becasue it was so memorable for me. I was so excited about it that i even shared my decklist then, haha.

http://www.unicornclan.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6081#p6081

Talking about 1-of-s. I hope you also laugh and call bad a lot of people who put 1-ofs in their decks in every card game around even if playset mean 3 or 4.

5 minutes ago, kempy said:

Because Rings were something special and was really rare to use it as Victory Condition from clans not predestined for this VC? From all of games i played in CCG i remember my first enlightenment victory ever, becasue it was so memorable for me. I was so excited about it that i even shared my decklist then, haha.

http://www.unicornclan.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=620&p=6364&hilit=rainbow#p6364

Talking about 1-of-s. I hope you also laugh and call bad a lot of people who put 1-ofs in their decks in every card game around even if playset mean 3 or 4.

Yeah - I think that is something I will miss - the ever elusive, grand spectacle of an enlightenment victory.

I did an enlightenment deck once. Before I knew about Set Legality, I made a Jade + Imperial enlightenment deck. It was 100% jank. I took it to a tournament, won my first round, then got pulled away by my g/f, who took me away to tell me she was moving... the next day lol. I left my deck in her van :\ never got it back. Oh well lol.

I have played several ccg, and always call people out for including 1 off. I don't do it to be condescending, but to help them focus their decks better. Having just 1 of any card makes it luck based. With a playset of 3 cards in l5r lcg I will be including mostly 3x of cards, and then some 2x of what I would consider situational. Never a 1x, except for Splash cards - 10 influence is not a lot...

14 hours ago, Yoritomo Reiu said:

FFG owns a lot of Mantis and Spider art. It's hard for me to believe that they won't eventually find a way to make use of those assets.

They also own a lot of Ratling, Naga, Brotherhood of Shinsei, Toturi's Army, Shadowlands Horde, Shadow, and Spirit art. Some of those were around as long as and had as many players as Spider. That doesn't mean you'll see those factions in the LCG.

I'd be happy to see YA come back (as the alliance, as opposed to unified Mantis Clan), and if they are doing two new factions, then I'd rather have Ratlings (already mentioned in a story) than Spider. I would expect that they are working on (at least outlining) some story arcs that introduce new factions. They may even be entirely new factions.

I'm really hoping for Mantis as a full-fledged clan, but with fewer dynasty cards than other clans, a bunch of neutral personalities with a minor clan as a trait and Yoritomo's Alliance as a trait, and have at least the first Mantis stronghold (and/or Mantis fate cards) have a strong interaction with YA characters. That would leave open the door for splitting up the Alliance later on in the story.

Here was the thing about the '1 of' cards that we're in Old5R.....many were really like the 4th or 5th copy of a particularly strong effect.

For example there would be a card that would say something like 'bow one of your personalities to bow and opposing personality' and you're already playing 3 c opies of it. Then there would be a sweet promo or just a random unique action that said 'bow an opposing personality' or something that said 'bow a personality or move your personality to a battle.' It would be clearly superior and essentially an auto include.

Towards the tail end of the CCG it was not uncommon to see decklists that looked like someone was trying to play highlander style......and they we're typically the best decks.

Now in the LCG you will fill in cards depending on how you splash and what your deck wants to accomplish. I suspect you could see several 1 of inclusions.....but in reality many will be that 4th copy of a desired effect.

5 hours ago, DarwinsDog said:

They also own a lot of Ratling, Naga, Brotherhood of Shinsei, Toturi's Army, Shadowlands Horde, Shadow, and Spirit art. Some of those were around as long as and had as many players as Spider. That doesn't mean you'll see those factions in the LCG.

Most (all?) of that art is unusable from FFG's perspective as it doesn't match the aesthetic they've established for the new game.

GENZOMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN

I'd love to see Mantis and Shadowlands factions in the game. If the rumor above of two factions joining, with one being tournament chosen, I'd wager on Shadowlands as the definite, with a ronin/minor clan faction as the other - Toturi's Army or Yoritomo's Alliance.

The main issue I see with a Shadowlands faction joining comes from the honor wager. Admittedly, the only time I ever played was around 2002, and then only casually, but from what I remember Shadowlands just didn't care about honor gain or loss at all. In fact, I think my stronghold said they cannot gain or lose honor. This could massively unbalance the honor bidding, but it could also play into it very interestingly. Say they keep that text - that would prevent an opponent from gaining honor by underbidding you (makes sense, being more honorable than the Shadowlands is kind of the bare minimum), but depending on the rules may or may not lose honor for overbidding you (RAW says that you give the opponent the difference in honor - what happens if they can't gain honor?) It's a weird conundrum, but one I'd be interested in seeing. Alternately, a Spider Clan style faction of infiltrators could be intriguing - follow the same rules when it comes to honor because if they lose all their honor they'll be revealed as corrupted and the other clans would band against them anyway.

On 9/3/2017 at 2:21 PM, Joelist said:

Lest we forget the story has been reset (and BADLY needed to be). It may not develop the same way as before if for no other reason than the annual player decisions that directly alter the path of the story.

As for players not coming over because of the mechanics being changed, I find it laughable. People played the CCG IN SPITE OF the mechanics not because of them. The story was the lure; the original mechanics were problematic at best. FFG has done a good job of creating a mechanically sound, interesting game that kept as much of the CCG mechanics as it could while fixing the massive problems (the CCG was one of the biggest examples of "snowballing" in the hobby) and integrating elements like the Rings more tightly into the play.

I agree that the idea is laughable. Nonetheless, that's what some people claim as their reason for not picking up the new game.