So the aces with even modest upgrades are 30-45 points...for a 1 agility ship with 8hp. wont the insanely powerful new ordinance just erase your kimogila first round of combat?

a list might throw 6 attack die first round, but these days its more likley throwing 9-30 attack die first round. Isnt this the same issue the rebels have, but without biggs or regen?

Depends on how you build the rest of the list. As i've said elsewhere i dont know if stacking ordance on the aces is going to be best fit.

45 points would be really pushing it. I bet the PS8 guy is going to be fielded at 33-37 points. The Upgrades of choice:

Salvaged mech: R4 Agromech or Unhinged Astromech.

Ordnance: Anything with 4 dice, probably Homing missiles.

Elite: Vi, expertise or predator, probably VI every time due to the bullseye mechanic.

Illicit: Glitterstim or Cloaking device.

Modification: EU or Guidance.

The total for VI, R4, Homing missile, Glitterstim and guidance is: 36 points.

Honestly though I don't see this ship keeping pace with Dengar, which leaves it DoA.

11 hours ago, tsuruki said:

45 points would be really pushing it. I bet the PS8 guy is going to be fielded at 33-37 points. The Upgrades of choice:

Salvaged mech: R4 Agromech or Unhinged Astromech.

Ordnance: Anything with 4 dice, probably Homing missiles.

Elite: Vi, expertise or predator, probably VI every time due to the bullseye mechanic.

Illicit: Glitterstim or Cloaking device.

Modification: EU or Guidance.

The total for VI, R4, Homing missile, Glitterstim and guidance is: 36 points.

Honestly though I don't see this ship keeping pace with Dengar, which leaves it DoA.

meanwhile, vi and eu or vectored thrusters + astro + title gives you a 30-36 point option that has real ability to line up that bullseye (ps 10 and reposition) which then leads to the strip tokens or damage and stress.

At this point nothing "should" be keeping pace with Dengar. Dengar is whats both pushing and hampering diversity in the meta right now. I'd fully expect to see this paired with rage Dengar (to avoid jam tokens) and a z95 with prockets or something else cheap the likes of which will make people wear the damage it the hopes their mods save more damage.

It wont even get to shoot because by that time all Imperial players will be playing RAC/Kylo as they very obviously should and blind/PS0 its immovable scum azz back to the wretched hive it came form.

I mean surely you will be running it with a bumpmaster to help keep the target in the killzone.

1 hour ago, Ralgon said:

meanwhile, vi and eu or vectored thrusters + astro + title gives you a 32-36 point option that has real ability to line up that bullseye (ps 10 and reposition) which then leads to the strip tokens or damage and stress.

It already has Vectored Thrusters.

You need to keep this guy really cheap. VI, R4, and maybe that title to triple down on that new arc. You pair him with ever bigger threats and screw with target priority. If he can get a TL and then next turn adjust his arc with barrel roll if need be, he could lay down a lot of hurt. Low 30's might be a good build for this guy. Need to see the dial.

i actually think they will compliment the G4H ships fine.

Issue i was having with the G4H ships in listbuilding is they are usually at a point level Scum normally dont have, so pairing them with a big decked out ship leaves a lot of excess points, trying to do the imperial thing of 2mid-30s and a mid20 doesnt work as great due to not really having a valid mid-20s ship that compliments the G4H ships. It either leaves an obvious flaw in your list or puts too much pressure on the kfighters/vipers to do amazing work.
Course i mainly blame this on i think kfighters are still utter trash.

Took a while for someone the drop the ol' DOA this time...

3 hours ago, tortugatron said:

It already has Vectored Thrusters.

You need to keep this guy really cheap. VI, R4, and maybe that title to triple down on that new arc. You pair him with ever bigger threats and screw with target priority. If he can get a TL and then next turn adjust his arc with barrel roll if need be, he could lay down a lot of hurt. Low 30's might be a good build for this guy. Need to see the dial.

Indeed. Veteran Instincts, Enforcer, Cloaking Device and Unhinged Astromech (depending on the dial) and you're pretty much done as a gunship.

That gives you a ship which should be a nightmare to get ordnance lined up on (because on the turn it engages, you've got a decloak plus dial plus PS10 barrel roll, so it could be anywhere and if it gets the bullseye lined up it'll make enough of a mess not to care about reprisals; plus it's high enough PS not to get Kylo Ren blinded pilot before shooting if you have initiative.

I think ordnance/reload is probably best saved for the lower level ships

8 hours ago, Ralgon said:

meanwhile, vi and eu or vectored thrusters + astro + title gives you a 32-36 point option that has real ability to line up that bullseye (ps 10 and reposition) which then leads to the strip tokens or damage and stress.

At this point nothing "should" be keeping pace with Dengar. Dengar is whats both pushing and hampering diversity in the meta right now. I'd fully expect to see this paired with rage Dengar (to avoid jam tokens) and a z95 with prockets or something else cheap the likes of which will make people wear the damage it the hopes their mods save more damage.

fully agree, except you dont need vectored thrusters as it has a native barrel roll.

14 minutes ago, Vontoothskie said:

fully agree, except you dont need vectored thrusters as it has a native barrel roll.

pointed out, i'm confusing my ships . Mind you that drops my build lower ceiling to 30 pnts too.....that's almost falling into budget ace that would slow roll and try to bullseye at R3

OP is right. We have another 8HP, 1 agility scum ship in a similar point bracket that no one plays.

2 minutes ago, Jo Jo said:

OP is right. We have another 8HP 1 agility scum ship and no one plays that.

The Kimo is a point cheaper, a point higher PS, and has a funky arc. It's definitely better than the G1a. WHether it's better ENOUGH will remain to be seen.

And dang is that G1a out of scale.

G1A also suffers from pilot abilities. Zuckuss is interesting but it lacks the utility to actually punish people with it despite the extra defense. 4LOM is good but its on a platform/PS level that makes it stupid difficult to get off, as the only ships that dont just roll away from you will obliterate you anyway.
I've tried to use it and i find every time i add upgrades to deal with its lack of actions, stress blows (either self or attack stress) or its like half the list almost. Its actually the first non-G4H ship i looked at for a companion to those ships, but too expensive. Could run one with a viper and a little Z or Scyk probably but not a Kfighter (even a cheapo kfighter)

Zuckuss with title, FCS and Gunner is pretty good, but costs a flipping fortune.

The trick to using the "B-Wing family" ships (B-Wing, G1-A, Kimogila and maybe U-Wing) is keeping them cheap enough to make other, much more durable ships much more appealing as targets. Using generics is one way to do it, but going after a ps10 Kimogila (ps8 ace with VI, eu and title, 33 pts) that will strip your tokens and leave you stressed if you do it might not be a very enticing idea when you're also getting flanked by Fenn and Guri.

7 minutes ago, Elavion said:

The trick to using the "B-Wing family" ships (B-Wing, G1-A, Kimogila and maybe U-Wing) is keeping them cheap enough to make other, much more durable ships much more appealing as targets. Using generics is one way to do it, but going after a ps10 Kimogila (ps8 ace with VI, eu and title, 33 pts) that will strip your tokens and leave you stressed if you do it might not be a very enticing idea when you're also getting flanked by Fenn and Guri.

Or a budget talonbane, kimo and regen dalarn with ion passing ( the new super manuverable viper). Leave the other two out at r3 where their abilities shine while dalarn keeps them busy arc dodging and dumping ion tokens

4 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

The Kimo is a point cheaper, a point higher PS, and has a funky arc. It's definitely better than the G1a. WHether it's better ENOUGH will remain to be seen.

And dang is that G1a out of scale.

the g1a has evade and crew though. i used to play zuckus a lot with gonk, and if you can get him through the opening turns hes a beast with that regen. the issue is ordinance can take him out in a single round now guaranteed.

seperately, **** yes the scale is absurdly off on the G1a. its because there are 2 scales in this game: one for x-wings, y-wings, etc., and another for A-wings, G1As...

The difference between this and ships like the B-Wing and G1-A is that Bullseye arc, especially the PS8 pilot. That thing is going to be murder against Large ships, who will have a harder time arc-dodging it.

45 points for "modest" upgrades on this is wrong. If you're filling every slot on this ship with the most expensive options, you're doing it wrong.

13 hours ago, ABXY said:

Took a while for someone the drop the ol' DOA this time...

had to let the air clear of all the "OMG scum gets another OP ship FFG have scum-favoritism despite making no logical sense etc etc etc"

15 minutes ago, PhantomFO said:

The difference between this and ships like the B-Wing and G1-A is that Bullseye arc, especially the PS8 pilot. That thing is going to be murder against Large ships, who will have a harder time arc-dodging it.

45 points for "modest" upgrades on this is wrong. If you're filling every slot on this ship with the most expensive options, you're doing it wrong.

EI, ptl, unhinged astro, and youre already at 35 points. i cant see the ps8 surviving a single round without those upgrades or equivalent value in something else. throw in a decent missile/torpedo, an illicit, or a more expensive astromech... if you put the most expensive upgrade in each slot he'd cost over 50 points.

im begining to wonder if one of the scum astromechs is going to provide regen (for small ships only, thus no double regen chumpmaters) or increase agility somehow

If that is such a concern then the illicit cloaking device might just be of some use there. This upgrade is often underestimated when list building.

2 minutes ago, dotswarlock said:

If that is such a concern then the illicit cloaking device might just be of some use there. This upgrade is often underestimated when list building.

generally for good reason, mainly that none of the ships really merit or need the re-positioning it offers. It's **** good fun on the quad, god bless its little heart, or palob but difficult to justify bothering with elsewhere

Course, the scumboat here generally packs more of a punch than even Zuckuss (which ironically gets worse the more mods the opponent has) so this could be a good home for it

Multiple of them should worsk. It's easy to dodge one bullseye, but dodgin 2/3 of them...well..