Does anyone have a link to the dev answer on using these to leap in or out of engaged range? I can't find it.

It's in the Order 66 Podcast, the episode about Endless Vigil, the Sentinel sourcebook. That said, the quote is confusing to understand but the gist of it that people go with seems to be that because engaged range is more of a condition than a range band, you still have to burn a maneuver to engage/disengage from the target. So one using Force/Kyuzo leap could get as far as short range and then is forced to burn a maneuver, in addition under the rules they can't Force/Kyuzo leap out of engaged range.

This is bologna IMHO and I house-rule leaping into/out of engaged range. It's worked out fine so far, hasn't been overpowered and has actually been pretty thematic!

I agree with the official ruling on this. Engaged means more than mere physical proximity; it means the possibility you can be grabbed, attacked, manhandled. Just being able to leap shouldn't change the fact that an opponent could attack you as you do so, grab onto you, etc. Evading those sorts of tactics is what the maneuver represents, in my opinion.

12 hours ago, SavageBob said:

I agree with the official ruling on this. Engaged means more than mere physical proximity; it means the possibility you can be grabbed, attacked, manhandled. Just being able to leap shouldn't change the fact that an opponent could attack you as you do so, grab onto you, etc. Evading those sorts of tactics is what the maneuver represents, in my opinion.

This is pretty much how I see it, DnD gets round this by allowing an Attack of Opportunity, however doing that in this game is absolutely lethal, so they just force you to take a maneuver to approach someone carefully. If you do allow leaping into and out of engaged ranged you can makenother talents worthless, for example there is one that allows you to disengage as an incidental.

here is the link:

it is within the long post of Dakkar98 on Page 13

"In regards to the second Force Leap question, you may choose to perform it as a maneuver or an action. However, you may not Force Leap into “engaged” range with someone, because engaging someone is a special maneuver you perform while you are at short range from that person. There are specific talents that allow you to engage someone from different ranges, but Force Leap does not do this. "

Thanks for the official quote

7 hours ago, syrath said:

This is pretty much how I see it, DnD gets round this by allowing an Attack of Opportunity, however doing that in this game is absolutely lethal, so they just force you to take a maneuver to approach someone carefully. If you do allow leaping into and out of engaged ranged you can makenother talents worthless, for example there is one that allows you to disengage as an incidental.

As an out of turn incidental when someone engages with you, so this still has a lot of usefulness even if you can leap out on your turn.

3 hours ago, DaverWattra said:

As an out of turn incidental when someone engages with you, so this still has a lot of usefulness even if you can leap out on your turn.

Yes but far less so. The point is that the maneuver to engage/disengage isnt exactly movement per se, its certainly not any where near the distance covered in the move maneuver, its taking the time to move those last few feet or inches to get into range that you can use a melee weapon from. Its time rather than distance (though both are involved). You can run as fast as you can towards someone (move maneuver) but you have to slow down so that you engage with them otherwise you run right past them.

Edit to clarify a little further, in structured time moving isnt done that slowly you can stop on a dime (to coin a phrase) at the drop of a hat, you have to slow down to approach something, leaping in, doesnt also land you right on top of someone, (this what makes hawk bat swoop so cool, because that is exactly what it does)

Preemptive Avoidance is still very good, though--by far the best trick to do with it is:

1. You lose initiative, melee enemy begins at medium range.

2. Enemy uses 2 maneuvers to close to short range and engage.

3. You use Preemptive Avoidance to disengage.

You've just stolen the first attack against this enemy. That's dang good, and there's no way to reproduce it with Force jump or any maneuver, even under the house rule we're considering.

That said, I do think your argument about the time required to safely engage/disengage makes sense. I would only support allowing disengaging with a leap if you also introduced attacks of opportunity into the system.

1 hour ago, DaverWattra said:

Preemptive Avoidance is still very good, though--by far the best trick to do with it is:

1. You lose initiative, melee enemy begins at medium range.

2. Enemy uses 2 maneuvers to close to short range and engage.

3. You use Preemptive Avoidance to disengage.

You've just stolen the first attack against this enemy. That's dang good, and there's no way to reproduce it with Force jump or any maneuver, even under the house rule we're considering.

That said, I do think your argument about the time required to safely engage/disengage makes sense. I would only support allowing disengaging with a leap if you also introduced attacks of opportunity into the system.

And given how lethal combat is you would be worthwhile burning that maneuver rather than taking a hit or multiple hits. This is also why you only require a maneuver to disengage an enemy , disengaging an object or an ally doesnt require one.

For some tough combat characters I could imagine choosing to give a weak enemy an attack of opportunity against you in some situations, so I could see making the option available if players want it.

Keep in mind you can combine Preemptive Avoidance with Force Leap and Hawkbat Swoop/Draw Closer to Kite an opponent in a one on one light saber duel.

Basically you use Hawkbat Swoop/Draw Closer to engage the target then use Force Leap to disengage and when they close you use Preemptive Avoidence to disengage preventing them from ever actually attacking you.

2 hours ago, Decorus said:

Keep in mind you can combine Preemptive Avoidance with Force Leap and Hawkbat Swoop/Draw Closer to Kite an opponent in a one on one light saber duel.

Basically you use Hawkbat Swoop/Draw Closer to engage the target then use Force Leap to disengage and when they close you use Preemptive Avoidence to disengage preventing them from ever actually attacking you.

Technically you cant disengage with a force leap. That would be a house rule if you did. You need a move maneuver to disengage force leaps option neither has engage nor does it hae disengage as an option. You would need preemtpive avoidance to disengage without a maneuver.

It's still a great strategy, but eventually you'll run out of destiny points.

And if you DM is worth a dime he will retalliate this Kiting with a bunch of heavy blaster rifles on 2-4 minion groups that will target the kiting char since theire closecombat friend is in no danger of beeing hit by them ^^

...at least that would be my method if a pc is trying to exploite the same procedur over and over again