1 minute ago, Teslacrashed said:

It feels weird for balancing meta in general, as well as how is this suppose to work for casual play? I just need to see it in action, but the fact I can't use certain cards for MY clan because some tournament winner didn't choose a role is strange.

I initially felt like you, but I think the impact is going to be less. Don't think of it as "Some Tournament Winner" think of it as some mysterious force (IE the developers). Its really nothing more than you getting something like a Sensei from the last game that didn't penalize you, but also didn't help you. Though with come cards being restricted, you could also think of it like "Hey, if only that dynasty card was in MY clan, I would be better off".

I think casual play will basically ignore anything competitive will do.

Roles are only mandatory in competitive events/tournament play. In casual play they aren't mandatory and you can switch around as you please with your casual play group or if you are playtesting for next role win lol

1 hour ago, Darguth said:

No more so than any other type of choice that impacts the actual state of the card game. Subjective opinion will always differ. The only way to resolve that would be to never allow players to affect the state of the cards directly. Which is a valid idea, but obviously not what's going to happen. And I think there's a fairly large contingent of players that would be similarly upset if that concept was removed from this incarnation of the game.

TL;DR - You can't please all people all of the time, don't try.

But this goes beyond a tournament choices people don't like. It literally makes cards unplayable.

55 minutes ago, wolfien8 said:

2 cost for a 1/- hope they have a good effect.

It doesn't need to have a good effect, it just needs to be a goblin for me. <3

21 minutes ago, shosuko said:

The Crab use Goblins as manual labor within the Empire.

The treason of the Crab is well documented, yes indeed.

3 minutes ago, Teslacrashed said:

But this goes beyond a tournament choices people don't like. It literally makes cards unplayable.

Unplayable in a competitive setting. That top placing competitors can choose.

39 minutes ago, KerenRhys said:

If we look at the number of those cards and in case the card order is the same as the core set, we can deduce some things:

- There won't be any Dynasty Scorpion card since Kaede is 9 and the Magistrate is 10. The Scorpion could have 2 Conflict cards or maybe 1 Conflict and 1 Province.

- Since there will be 2 neutral provinces and the Crab holding is 4, there will a be clan-specific province (maybe Scorpion due to previous point) or another Dynasty card for the Crab.

- There will be 2 Dynasty cards for either the Dragon, the Lion or the Phoenix since Yaruma is 6 and Kaede is 9.

We can see that FFG has no intention to follow a 1 Dynasty / 1 Conflict per clan plan, with the remaining 6 as neutral or (balanced on the whole cycle) bonus for some clans for their dynasty packs.

I haven't looked at the numbering in detail. Is it possible Unicorn gets 2 cards? They were down one in the Core set.

Also having Keeper/Seeker Cards allows for FFG to print cards with Strong abilities that are fair by themselves, but broken if used together without having to put them on the Restricted list.

Just now, Cambeul no Oni said:

Also having Keeper/Seeker Cards allows for FFG to print cards with Strong abilities that are fair by themselves, but broken if used together without having to put them on the Restricted list.

This guy gets it ^

1 hour ago, TheItsyBitsySpider said:

*BANGS OVERSIZED GOBLIN DRUM*

It took crab ONE expansion for them to fail to stop a goblin from getting in. Good run this time, I think that's a record!

#ShadowlandsHype

I want to see the goblin and how they choose to handle if you lose honor or not.

So what do we know about the Goblin Sneak so far? He costs two, but isn't particularly strong in military. He's about as far from politically inclined as one can possibly be. He has a keyword that begins with "Go", so I'm assuming it's either Goblin , Go Grandmaster , or Good Guy . (Which would make him the first Good Guy in the game! Take that , Great Clans!)

1 hour ago, player2636234 said:

@Darguth the difference here is that the division is much broader in scope. We're now considering entire playstyles for a faction being locked away behind the "non-canon" role. It's a huge hit to clan loyalty if your favorite Crab deck literally can't be played anymore because the top player decided (rightly or otherwise) that the opposite role was more tournament viable. When it was a few neutrals and small deckbuilding decisions, being forced into one or the other still gives a lot of room to breathe, but we're already seeing certain roles being pushed. The Kitsuki that was spoiled has synergy with Seeker, for example. Not only does it allow you to use flip effects again, but it also gives you the reveal fate for the Seeker role. If that combo becomes a powerful staple of the Dragon, the rest of the deck is being built around this one courtier and certain provinces. It's just an example, but it demonstrates that the seeker/keeper divide can paradoxically make deck building less diverse.

Further, the most important thing the preview tells me, is that we're gonna be stuck with Keeper/Seeker for a while. I really was hoping that we would see new role cards in the near future, if not replacing Keeper/Seeker, then alongside them. Doubling down on Keeper Only and Seeker Only makes that less and less viable.

At the beginning, while the card pool is small, clans will be pushed one way or another. However, this was pretty much inevitable with a small card pool anyway. As it grows, I expect all clans will gain cards that synergize with Keeper and Seeker roles, so it'll be less clear-cut which role a given clan will pursue.

...not to mention, if the first five clans to pick all choose Seeker, for instance, the final two don't really have much say in the matter.

1 minute ago, TheItsyBitsySpider said:

This guy gets it ^

Spider Clan/Shadowlands has to stick together.

3 minutes ago, the eigensheep said:

I haven't looked at the numbering in detail. Is it possible Unicorn gets 2 cards? They were down one in the Core set.

Cards 11 and 12 are not known currently. They could be everything between a Unicorn dynasty card, a neutral dynasty card, a Crab conflict card or a Crane conflict card.

2 minutes ago, Cambeul no Oni said:

Also having Keeper/Seeker Cards allows for FFG to print cards with Strong abilities that are fair by themselves, but broken if used together without having to put them on the Restricted list.

...at least until FFG prints the powerful Seeker of Keepers (or Keeper of Seekers , I suppose).

11 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

...at least until FFG prints the powerful Seeker of Keepers (or Keeper of Seekers , I suppose).

It'll be both, depending on whether you're a Seeker splashing Keeper cards or vice versa.

1 minute ago, Kaigen said:

It'll be both, depending on whether you're a Seeker splashing Keeper cards or vice versa.

Keeper of Seekers sounds rather sinister, though. I'm guessing there will be an honor loss involved.

34 minutes ago, Mirith said:

You don't have to use it on a Lion attachment. There are other attachments in the game! Get back a kimono, get back your mask, get back an ornate fan or blade. I think the strength of the card is that you recover an attachment from your discard and for free (as applicable), not as the reaction. However, bushi only makes it a good bit weaker in my mind.

Well, Time for War only gets back Weapons. As enthusiastic as my beloved Lions are for war, even they don't consider a kimono or fan a weapon. Usually.

Crab Seeker might borrow that Lion card for vengeance tetsubos.

I approve.

"The Crane are talking smack. Get the clubs."

8 minutes ago, Gaffa said:

Well, Time for War only gets back Weapons. As enthusiastic as my beloved Lions are for war, even they don't consider a kimono or fan a weapon. Usually.

Oh right. Nevermind, this card isn't very good. You dodged a bullet lion.

1 hour ago, player2636234 said:

@Darguth the difference here is that the division is much broader in scope. We're now considering entire playstyles for a faction being locked away behind the "non-canon" role. It's a huge hit to clan loyalty if your favorite Crab deck literally can't be played anymore because the top player decided (rightly or otherwise) that the opposite role was more tournament viable.

Hyperbole much? There's a lot of assumptions wrapped up in this perception. We haven't seen anything indicating more than a small handful of cards will be tied to the roles. There's a few in this pack and then maybe some more throughout the cycle. It seems like a gigantic leap to assume entire playstyles will be decided as (non)viable based on a small subset of the cardpool.

35 minutes ago, Teslacrashed said:

But this goes beyond a tournament choices people don't like. It literally makes cards unplayable.

Except it doesn't. As noted several times throughout this thread.

3 minutes ago, Darguth said:

Hyperbole much? There's a lot of assumptions wrapped up in this perception. We haven't seen anything indicating more than a small handful of cards will be tied to the roles. There's a few in this pack and then maybe some more throughout the cycle. It seems like a gigantic leap to assume entire playstyles will be decided as (non)viable based on a small subset of the cardpool.

Remember when everyone thought Seeker roles were OP and the keeper rules would screw anyone over. Everyone was certain that seeker void phoenix would be unbeatable. It was so long ago, like 2 weeks, maybe 3. Wow how the game changes over time...

Goblin !!!!!!!!!!!

I just need 13 other goblin personalities and my deck will be complete.

Seeker/Keeper Cards and Winter Court have the opportunity to offer mini rotations or shake ups in the environment.

Normally in Netrunner they had to wait for the 6th Cycle to either release or be complete, I cannot remember before the first 2 Cycles rotate out. This is the same for Star Wars and I believe Game of Thrones 2.0.

Now with every year your Role will be changing, and potentially the Seeker/Keeper portion will change as well that not only restricts what cards you get, but also adds what cards you can take as well. Also including Provinces and out of Clan Cards as well.

This is no different really than when Old5R changed from Samurai to Celestial, or Celestial to Emperor , etc... etc... Oh no I cannot use my old Stronghold, I will now have to use a new one.

I actually welcome this change up every year because it can help the competitive scene get less stale, and will help lower the potential for Power Creep. (which I sort of saw when I played Netrunner)

I find it pretty hard to imagine the metagame changing substantially for the better with any given "shake up". There are 5 of each role, and the best in clan players will naturally pick the role that makes their clans the strongest, assuming no outside factors. This means that a clan will typically only change roles if they are either locked out of picking it, such as being 5th pick or later (can't pick your old role, can't pick a chosen role), or they will change roles if the grass is greener on the other side. While the former option is tragic, the latter option doesn't really "shake up" anything. A deck gets an upgrade (when it was previously just sitting on good cards it couldn't play) and that's about it. Dollars to donuts there will be a 3:4 clan split among the roles, and nothing ever changes.

8 minutes ago, Cambeul no Oni said:

Seeker/Keeper Cards and Winter Court have the opportunity to offer mini rotations or shake ups in the environment.

Normally in Netrunner they had to wait for the 6th Cycle to either release or be complete, I cannot remember before the first 2 Cycles rotate out. This is the same for Star Wars and I believe Game of Thrones 2.0.

Now with every year your Role will be changing, and potentially the Seeker/Keeper portion will change as well that not only restricts what cards you get, but also adds what cards you can take as well. Also including Provinces and out of Clan Cards as well.

This is no different really than when Old5R changed from Samurai to Celestial, or Celestial to Emperor , etc... etc... Oh no I cannot use my old Stronghold, I will now have to use a new one.

I actually welcome this change up every year because it can help the competitive scene get less stale, and will help lower the potential for Power Creep. (which I sort of saw when I played Netrunner)

Plus, the Keeper/Seeker Roles changing every year also fits with the theme of Mono No Aware too.

Quick clarification if anyone knows. I know that the LCG packs for LOTR's has all the cards needed for their packs or eg, that set. In other words to get 3 copies of a card I only need to get one pack. Will this format continue with L5R or will it mimic packs like the old way before FFG's took over where you get random cards for a set?

1 minute ago, MadMonkZero said:

Quick clarification if anyone knows. I know that the LCG packs for LOTR's has all the cards needed for their packs or eg, that set. In other words to get 3 copies of a card I only need to get one pack. Will this format continue with L5R or will it mimic packs like the old way before FFG's took over where you get random cards for a set?

3 copies of each card.