1 minute ago, VictoryLeo said:I don't know if Legion will ever have those types of gamers playing. Other than the license, I don't think you're going to pull a lot of people away from Warmahordes or 40K.
I don't care what your models look like - I refuse to play with anyone in costume.
6 minutes ago, VanorDM said:Do at your own risk though... It may not happen often, it may never happen to you. But paint your ST's in rainbow colors and there will be people who will refuse to play with you. You may very well think someone like that isn't worth playing with in the first place and you may be justified in thinking so. But it's a chance you take.
In games like 40k, you paint your ultrasmurfs the wrong color and people may give you an odd look, and may refuse to play you... Again not likely but it can and does happen. In historicals you'll run into people who refuse to play with you if your list is the wrong shade of green. Again maybe that person is better off avoided, but if you break from the norm you may find it causes problems finding a game.
I have literally never seen a player refuse to play someone because of a paint scheme.
In fact, in ANY other tabletop where you paint your army its the opposite. People love facing the incredibly weird forces because its different and cool looking.
I see far far more Ultramarine successors than i do regular Ultrasmurfs (by that, theyre not blue but they have Ultramarine rules). And nobody cares.
Edited by Vineheart01Just now, VictoryLeo said:Other than the license, I don't think you're going to pull a lot of people away from Warmahordes or 40K.
I'm sure that's FFG's goal. Also there have been tons of people who posted on the X-Wing and Armada boards saying they quit 40k or Warmahords to play those games, so I think they'll end up taking a pretty sizable chunk out of GW's market share.
I mean even with the huge step forward you have with 8th... GW is still up to many of their same old tricks, with $35 Primaris HQ's. So if people were willing to quit 40k for a completely different game, even more are going to quit 40k for a Star Wars based skirmish game with much better rules.
1 minute ago, Vineheart01 said:I have literally never seen a player refuse to play someone because of a paint scheme.
I've never seen Paris, but I don't doubt it's there. I've never run into it myself but I've heard of it happening often enough to believe it does happen.
1 minute ago, Vineheart01 said:In fact, in ANY other tabletop where you paint your army its the opposite. People love facing the incredibly weird forces because its different and cool looking.
That's not been my experience at all. Most of the 40k players I've encountered seem to expect codex approved stuff, and it's a even bigger deal in historicals.
14 minutes ago, VictoryLeo said:Shoretroopers (as much as I love them) are quite odd. The standard "grunt" shoretrooper carries the rank of sergeant and technically can command a group of regular TKs. So a full of box squad of shores would actually be quite inaccurate. According to Lucasfilm, they were specific to Scarif (even though I think that's a very limiting thing to confirm), so my guess we'll probably never see them in Legions unless they do a full Rogue One wave of Deathtroopers, Shoretroopers, Scarif Rebels, etc.
I fully expect a Rogue One themed wave, with Krennic and Jyn/Cassian commanders, death troopers, shoretroopers, and the rebel marines. There's just too many possible units to come from that movie, especially outside of ESB, its the best ground battle we have that excludes the teddy bear picnic.
P.S. good luck on your TK from a member of the Georgia Garrison
1 minute ago, NervousSam said:I fully expect a Rogue One themed wave, with Krennic and Jyn/Cassian commanders
Jyn and Cassian will have a special that says "At end of game remove both commanders as casualties but do not count them for terms of kill points."
Also the hover thank was in that movie. Boy that's a solid film.
If someone refused to play because they disaproved of my paintjobs, I'd be pretty pleased as I just saved myself an hour+ of time playing with someone who I'm sure I wouldn't get along with.
9 minutes ago, NervousSam said:P.S. good luck on your TK from a member of the Georgia Garrison
Haha thanks! I was hoping to have my shoretrooper done for GenCon but I had a few last minute things to finish up that I didn't want to rush. Soon as this is done and submitted then I have time to finish up my shadowtrooper armor. The addiction is real...
24 minutes ago, VanorDM said:Do at your own risk though... It may not happen often, it may never happen to you. But paint your ST's in rainbow colors and there will be people who will refuse to play with you. You may very well think someone like that isn't worth playing with in the first place and you may be justified in thinking so. But it's a chance you take.
In games like 40k, you paint your ultrasmurfs the wrong color and people may give you an odd look, and may refuse to play you... Again not likely but it can and does happen. In historicals you'll run into people who refuse to play with you if your list is the wrong shade of green. Again maybe that person is better off avoided, but if you break from the norm you may find it causes problems finding a game.
My playing cirlce probably would never get that big. And yeah, I'm more the sort that just wouldn't want to play that person. A fair warning though.
23 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:willing to bet there was a thought of there being a "gay jab" is why he said "lets not call them that"
Despite in almost every cartoon iteration of a fairy, they have a pink/babyblue aura about them (or wings). Hence, Fairytroopers.
Heck i would even go far enough to actually give them fairy wings LOL
That's fair. I can see how that could have been misconstrued.
But yeah if you go that way, Id go all out with little wings. Maybe little crowns and wands too.
24 minutes ago, VanorDM said:I'm sure that's FFG's goal. Also there have been tons of people who posted on the X-Wing and Armada boards saying they quit 40k or Warmahords to play those games, so I think they'll end up taking a pretty sizable chunk out of GW's market share.
I mean even with the huge step forward you have with 8th... GW is still up to many of their same old tricks, with $35 Primaris HQ's. So if people were willing to quit 40k for a completely different game, even more are going to quit 40k for a Star Wars based skirmish game with much better rules.
I think that Legion will be good for two reasons: it uses the license to pull non-wargamers into a wargame. Also, as much as FFG loves upselling (range rulers, dice, etc) it's still not as bad as 40K ever will be. All my friends and I loved 40K but every dropped out after the initial investments since it was insanely pricey. I don't think the diehards will convert fully because of investment and some will find the Legion rules too basic (as far as I saw in the demo I played). Some do like the overly realistic mass of rules.
An alternative and equally good source of inspiration would be to research clone army colors. Each different unit serving under Jedis had a different color highlight scheme. While not technically cannon, it is an 'in universe' look.
18 minutes ago, VictoryLeo said:I don't think the diehards will convert fully because of investment
It's the WoW effect, you have some much time/money invested in it that you can't get away from it. I found myself thinking that after buying the 8th ed rulebook and Imperial Index 1, and having about 500 points worth of DeathWatch at home... I already spent enough on the game that I had to buy more.
So I'm sure there's some out there that will never give up on 40k for much the same reason. I also don't expect Legion to kill 40k, but I do expect it to become the #3 or even #2 best selling game based on the ICv2 iist. It could even surpass X-Wing but I wouldn't expect that. But as has been pointed out before the ICv2 list isn't always 100% accurate because of how it gathers data.
Quoteand some will find the Legion rules too basic (as far as I saw in the demo I played). Some do like the overly realistic mass of rules.
From what I've seen of the Demo, the rules were quite good, but they're not the full rules, so there's a fair amount yet to see, like suppression and such. But 40k, and especially 8th edition is not overly realistic and have been quite streamlined. Plus they still use the IMO anyway, horrible Igo-Ugo system where the other person may as well go in the next room and watch netflix considering how involved they are when it's not their turn.
So I think that Legion has the following things going for it, that will let it steal a lot of players from other games.
Very nice models, and from what I can see easily on par with 40k or others.
Allows for the Hobby side of things including painting models and making terrain.
The Star Wars IP.
A very good rule set, that while not on par with Infinity is as good if not better then Bolt Action and way, way better than 40k.
2 hours ago, Blackbird888 said:Observation: the Battlefront games made by EA/DICE has some variances. Personally, it would have been nice for FFG to follow some of their cues and allow for some helmet-less troopers.
A lot of players will probably use some blue highlights on the shoulder, belts or arms, in a nod to the 501st Legion. (In Legends, even during the Imperial era some depictions showed them with the blue highlights. The 501st are still canon, but we haven't seen them with the blue.) Others will probably follow this idea with red, yellow, green, and so on.
Sorastro painted the IA Stormtroopers with battle damage, making the armor less stark white and more muddied and singed.
I would hope they never do a helmet-less variant, it is technically being out of uniform to not wear it. Finn gets chewed out for it in TFA and it is addressed in a number of books to earn people a good chewing out. Besides, aside from the argument of how good their armor is, you might not want to go into battle not wearing a helmet. If they give people the option for alternate head sculpts and all that is fine I just hope they keep it as an option and not the only thing included in the package for grunt Imperial soldiers. Now if we were talking Clone Troopers...
1 hour ago, RogueLieutenant said:JetTroopers (sort of canon)
These guys have grey markings
Yea those guys are sort of in a grey area, the jet pack is from Battlefront which is canon or at least what shows up in the game is, but that coloring and name I think comes from Star Tours: The Adventure Continues, they show up in the scene where Vader shots the Starspeeder, and that was pretty much it to my knowledge. It would be cool to get some kind of troopers with jetpacks in the game though, I wonder if we will see a specific one in the new Battlefront like how they have that Jet Trooper the clones get access to.
I'll paint my mini's however I want. If some one refuses to play me because they are not the "correct" color, then I guess I would be be very happy with my decision.
8 minutes ago, VanorDM said:It's the WoW effect, you have some much time/money invested in it that you can't get away from it. I found myself thinking that after buying the 8th ed rulebook and Imperial Index 1, and having about 500 points worth of DeathWatch at home... I already spent enough on the game that I had to buy more.
So I'm sure there's some out there that will never give up on 40k for much the same reason. I also don't expect Legion to kill 40k, but I do expect it to become the #3 or even #2 best selling game based on the ICv2 iist. It could even surpass X-Wing but I wouldn't expect that. But as has been pointed out before the ICv2 list isn't always 100% accurate because of how it gathers data.
Oh Legion will easily be successful. The only way it won't be if FFG drops the ball somewhere. Wave 1 needs to be on the heels of the core set, Wave 2 behind that.
8 minutes ago, VanorDM said:From what I've seen of the Demo, the rules were quite good, but they're not the full rules, so there's a fair amount yet to see, like suppression and such. But 40k, and especially 8th edition is not overly realistic and have been quite streamlined. Plus they still use the IMO anyway, horrible Igo-Ugo system where the other person may as well go in the next room and watch netflix considering how involved they are when it's not their turn.
So I think that Legion has the following things going for it, that will let it steal a lot of players from other games.
I played the demo and I enjoyed it. My friends got into Infinity after playing demos of that at GenCon and my one buddy was pleasantly surprised how well Legion played. My only real complaint I had was I don't like the movement templates since they're too gimmicky for my liking and would rather use tape measures but it's FFG, so whatcha gonna do?
5 minutes ago, VictoryLeo said:Wave 1 needs to be on the heels of the core set, Wave 2 behind that.
Agreed, although they may not do Waves like in X-Wing. IA for example tends to just release models from time to time. Runewars is sorta the same way.
QuoteMy only real complaint I had was I don't like the movement templates since they're too gimmicky for my liking and would rather use tape measures but it's FFG, so whatcha gonna do?
That was actually a knock against the game when I first heard about it for me. But after seeing the demo I don't think it's that bad. Infantry units aren't really restricted in any way, but vehicles are, and they should be. I think the tool is no less finicky than the 90 deg pivot for every X" of movement other games use.
And as you say it's FFG... It's like the thread on the Legend of the Five Rings LCG board, where some of the players of the original game were hoping that their wouldn't be a ton of tokens in the FFG version. Those of us who knew FFG just laughed.
Edit: I also didn't think I'd like the 'measure the Leader and just keep everyone else in cohesion' system either, but it actually does seem to work well. Especially since everything is measured to the leader anyway, and the other troops are to a point HP counters.
Edited by VanorDM3 minutes ago, VictoryLeo said:
Oh Legion will easily be successful. The only way it won't be if FFG drops the ball somewhere. Wave 1 needs to be on the heels of the core set, Wave 2 behind that.
1
I watched an interview with the dev for SW:Legion and he made it sound like the core set will come out at the same time as wave 1.(he said something about people being able to buy enough troops to fill out an army on day 1 of release) I assume that is why the core set won't be out until next year. Even though it appears to be ready and probably could be out by Christmas this year.
1 minute ago, VanorDM said:Agreed, although they may not do Waves like in X-Wing. IA for example tends to just release models from time to time. Runewars is sorta the same way.
I really like how Privateer handles releases for Warmahordes. Something comes out every month, be it a single unit or a squad. I'd be happy if one month was new commanders, the next was a new squad. Doesn't have to be huge for me, just continuous.
1 minute ago, VanorDM said:That was actually a knock against the game when I first heard about it for me. But after seeing the demo I don't think it's that bad. Infantry units aren't really restricted in any way, but vehicles are, and they should be. I think the tool is no less finicky than the 90 deg pivot for every X" of movement other games use.
It not bad after using it, honestly. Just feels really weird after years of tape measured based games. I'm hoping Litko or someone else makes some good third party templates and dice, FFG's stuff for being their thing is always really really boring.
I know this guy who paints a squad of each game he plays as My Little Pony. He isn’t local but I seem to play in at a few first round games at tournaments. Invariably I ask what one is his favorite and then I make a point to shoot it first.
I’m petty that way.
Don't forget that there are special divisions in the corp too. For instance you have the Special Commando Advanced Recon troopers. While much of their variation is in armor it still can give you an idea of the diversity that is allowed in unit schemes.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Special_Commando_Advanced_Recon_trooper
With the Empire splitting along many different lines after the Emperor's demise, your troops can be just some warlord who decided to come up with a scheme to distinguish his forces from every other contender for the Imperial throne.
Unit badges are at least known, because the commanders on the Chaemera have a shoulder badge.
I do like the black shadowtrooper and white/red/black look from SW battlefront. I would prefer to play vs people who paint their army in a lore friendly way. Even if most Stormtroopers have to be white there is various ways of basing and weathering them. Chipped armor, dirt/dust collecting on it. Could also just paint the shoulderpads different colors for each squad to signify different groups. But that's the problem with Star Wars games, it has a certain look and if you deviate too far from it then it looses it's feel. And I think a lot of people are going to play this game not cause its better than 40k or AoS but because it's Star Wars.
Paint them anyway you want, its your miniatures and this is only a game! Anyone refusing to play you because your miniatures arent accurately painted is not worth playing against anyway so good riddance.
That said, I dont think I could do with anything other then white for regular stormtroopers. Its the most iconic uniform/armor in sci-fi, lets not mess with it
I'm planning on keeping my Stormtroopers white, but I'm going to give them each one red shoulder, for that understated special forces look.
