First of all, to all the naysayers who think the x-wing is fine "because Biggs": Biggs is broken, and thus an exception that needs some kind of nerf, but that is the subject for another topic, and another time. When was the last time you actually flew an X-wing, and it was effective?

There, with that out of the way here are my ideas for X-Wing titles.

T-65 X-Wing

X-Wing only, title

When you reveal a {turn} maneuver, you may treat it as a red tallon roll of the same speed and in the same direction.

You may equip another different title.

SPs: -2

The tallon roll is a maneuver designed by General Tallon to be performed by T-65 X-Wings. It is only fitting that they should get it. Plus the X-wing is overpriced. And I don't think -2 is terribly bad for a price decrease.

Blue Squadron X-Wing

X-Wing only, Blue Squadron or unique only, title.

Your action bar gains the {barrel roll} action icon.

SPs: 0

this one is to represent the fancy flying we see at Scarif. It would go on a new ps 5 Blue Squadron Elite with EPT slot, as well as any unique.

Red Squadron X-Wing

X-Wing only, Red Squadron or unique only, title.

You may reduce the Squad Point cost of an equipped Torpedo upgrade costing 4 or more by one, or 6 or more by 2.

SPs: 0

This one is to represent what we, or rather you folks over the age of 40-something, saw on the big screen in 1977.

Rogue Squadron Pilot

Rebel only, Small Ship only, Unique only, title.

When attacking, you may reroll a blank result for each friendly ship with this title that can target the defender with one of its weapons, you may instead change a hit to a crit if it is an X-wing.

You may equip another different title.

SPs: 2

Rogue squadron was extraordinarily good at (everything, but that's not the point.) coordinated strikes, and used any fighter necessary for the particular mission, but preferred X-Wings.

With these titles, you can build 5 rookies with R2 astromechs and IA, 4 red squadron pilots with proton torps, R2 astromechs, and guidance chimps , or four Blue Squadron elites with R2 astromech, IA, and your flavor of 1 point elite talents. Plus any number of ace builds.

Thoughts? Comments? Questions?

I was going to say that -3 was too much, bu then you can build 5x scariff defenders with LWF so,,,

I dig the T-65 title. All for talon rolls!

Blue Squadron is not bad, but I feel like boost is a bit much... maybe barrel roll instead or allowing for 2 modifications, possibly point reduction for said mods. That way, you have vectored thrusters and engine modification for your boost and roll actions or another 2 modifications. The X-wing was a jack of all trades, so this way you could tailor your fighter to the role you want it to do.

As for the Red Squadron reload, I don't feel like it's a good fit and makes it a Rebel gumboat proxy. A torpedo point reduction or allowing to require a target lock after firing your torpedo would be neat.

12 minutes ago, DerRitter said:

I was going to say that -3 was too much, bu then you can build 5x scariff defenders with LWF so,,,

Or 5 Vaksais with any combination of 1 point upgrades. All three have 3 attack and 2 agility (striker is sort of an exemption with LWF), but the X-wing, the namesake of the game, the most iconic ship in Star Wars next to the Millennium Falcon, you can't field 5.

Before the Vaksai title came out, I'd come up with a similar title for the X-Wing:

Versatile Engineering (0)

Title. T-65 X-Wing only.

When you equip a modification, you may equip another modifcation of lesser cost for free.

When I originally made the card, it was -2 cost and that was too good. This way, the X-Wing becomes the customizable all-around workhorse it was meant to be.

2 hours ago, GLEXOR said:

When was the last time you actually flew an X-wing, and it was effective?

Yesterday.

It was a T-70 though.

2 minutes ago, haslo said:

Yesterday.

It was a T-70 though.

My point exactly. T-65s need a fix.

Also, it was pointed out to a friend that we can't list Titles as "T-65 Only" as there are no "T-65s" in the game, only "X-Wings" and "T-70 X-Wing" Nit picky but he's right.

I'm hoping we get to see an x-wing fix on Force Friday!

34 minutes ago, drail14me said:

Also, it was pointed out to a friend that we can't list Titles as "T-65 Only" as there are no "T-65s" in the game, only "X-Wings" and "T-70 X-Wing" Nit picky but he's right.

I'm hoping we get to see an x-wing fix on Force Friday!

That's why mine say X-wing only.

16 minutes ago, GLEXOR said:

That's why mine say X-wing only.

So they can go on T-70 as well?

X-Wing only would apply to the T70 as well.

The way the names are done in this game is any part of the name containing the keywords allows it. Its why they had to faq the IG88 Aggressors title to be scum only because technically the TIE Aggressor could use it. Reason being, the IG88 ship was only called "Aggressor" and the "TIE Aggressor" contained the word "Aggressor" so it was legal.
Its also why the TIE Fighter/SF can be in a gozanti/benefit from Youngster, theyre still a TIE Fighter..just with extra stuff.

T65 wouldnt denounce the T70 either since technically thats not in the name of the ship. All you could do to prevent it is something that only the T70 has access to denies the title (i.e. "You may not equip this if you have a [Tech] upgrade slot available")

1 minute ago, Vineheart01 said:

X-Wing only would apply to the T70 as well.

The way the names are done in this game is any part of the name containing the keywords allows it. Its why they had to faq the IG88 Aggressors title to be scum only because technically the TIE Aggressor could use it. Reason being, the IG88 ship was only called "Aggressor" and the "TIE Aggressor" contained the word "Aggressor" so it was legal.
Its also why the TIE Fighter/SF can be in a gozanti/benefit from Youngster, theyre still a TIE Fighter..just with extra stuff.

T65 wouldnt denounce the T70 either since technically thats not in the name of the ship. All you could do to prevent it is something that only the T70 has access to denies the title (i.e. "You may not equip this if you have a [Tech] upgrade slot available")

how about "Non T-70 X-Wing"?

2 minutes ago, drail14me said:

how about "Non T-70 X-Wing"?

Sounds like anything but the T-70 can equip it. I think it would be easier to faq the X-Wing into the T-65 X-Wing, then the fix could say T-65 only, that leaves more design space for things like a droid that gives tech.

4 minutes ago, GLEXOR said:

Sounds like anything but the T-70 can equip it. I think it would be easier to faq the X-Wing into the T-65 X-Wing, then the fix could say T-65 only, that leaves more design space for things like a droid that gives tech.

I agree. FAQing in the T-65 would be best. ****, we all know what a T-65 is anyway! But, there are some in the game that would complain.

...or just say you cant use it if you have a tech like i mentioned earlier

No faq needed, T70 excluded

3 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

...or just say you cant use it if you have a tech like i mentioned earlier

No faq needed, T70 excluded

That works too, just not as sexy sounding.

1 minute ago, drail14me said:

I agree. FAQing in the T-65 would be best. ****, we all know what a T-65 is anyway! But, there are some in the game that would complain.

Remember all those complaints about X/1? "Darth Vader can't equip that! He flies a Tie Advanced X/1, it says Tie advanced only!"

My boint is, people are either dumb, or trouble-makers, or both. They will complain.

7 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

...or just say you cant use it if you have a tech like i mentioned earlier

No faq needed, T70 excluded

That leaves less design space, as you can NEVER make a card to add tech to the X-wing. And I am worried about running out of room on the card, as is, I was out of room on the Red Squadron X-Wing title, so I had to make the T-65 X-Wing title separate.

2 minutes ago, GLEXOR said:

That leaves less design space, as you can NEVER make a card to add tech to the X-wing. And I am worried about running out of room on the card, as is, I was out of room on the Red Squadron X-Wing title, so I had to make the T-65 X-Wing title separate.

the tech is an upgrade limited to the new series, why on earth would they give it to anything not from TFA or newer?

14 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

the tech is an upgrade limited to the new series, why on earth would they give it to anything not from TFA or newer?

What if Luke has a tricked out T-65 in the new trilogy, should it be restricted to 30 year old technology? Or should it not be what it is? A T-65 X-Wing. You don't know all the answers, and neither does FFG, so why land lock yourself?

Ooh, are we talking about X-wing fixes?

14 hours ago, GLEXOR said:

First of all, to all the naysayers who think the x-wing is fine "because Biggs": Biggs is broken, and thus an exception that needs some kind of nerf, but that is the subject for another topic, and another time. When was the last time you actually flew an X-wing, and it was effective?

There, with that out of the way here are my ideas for X-Wing titles.

T-65 X-Wing

X-Wing only, title

When you reveal a {turn} maneuver, you may treat it as a red tallon roll of the same speed and in the same direction.

You may equip another different title.

SPs: -3

The tallon roll is a maneuver designed by General Tallon to be performed by T-65 X-Wings. It is only fitting that they should get it. Plus the X-wing is overpriced. And I don't think -3 is terribly bad for a price decrease.

My Title would be something like this:

Title: Incom T-65

A) Rebel Alliance X-wing only

B) You may equip an additional title OR modification

C) Your upgrade Bar gains the Barrel Roll icon

D) If you are not stressed, you may treat a 3-turn as a Tallon roll. This counts as a red maneuver.

Cost: 0pts

Reasons:

A: Rebel Alliance (as opposed to Resistance) makes it possible to distinguish between the X-wing and T-70 X-wing, and does so with minimal verbiage to cram it more easily on a card.

B: The X-wing needs it's Integrated Astromech, but would also like to have an additional mod sometimes (Guidance Chips, etc). But this also allows you to take a 2nd title if necessary to sweeten the ship up further (I'd like to see a title that adds EPTs to all PS3 or higher pilots that don't have them, for example).

C: For a long time I've been saying that all fighter craft should have at least 3 actions on their action bar. I think barrel roll makes a lot of sense for X-wings and its not ridiculously overpowered to add it in. Boost or Evade would also be acceptable, but some might object to X-wings with autothrusters or an extra-tanky Biggs, so Barrel Roll is probably the conservative option.

D: The X-wing's default dial is pathetic, stiff, boring . Dial creep has made it really suffer in comparison to a lot of newer ships. Tallon Roll makes a lot of sense on the T-65 and it's in line with other add-on maneuver titles that the game has used to enhance bad dials.

Tallon Roll would also make Hobbie much more useful and interesting. With Targeting Astromech he's *almost* good, but the fact that he only has a single red maneuver makes him way too predictable. Of course, other X-wing pilots would benefit from this too.

This is a pretty modest and conservative title compared to a lot of the stuff newer ships are getting. But even all these goodies might not be enough to make the T-65 a tier-1 ship. Still, I think this is a good place to start to figure out where to go from here.

Alternatively, I think this would be neat:

S-foils: Attack Position (reversible)

Rebel Alliance X-wing only

Your Action bar gains the Barrel-Roll icon

If you are not stressed, you may treat a 3-turn as a Tallon roll. This counts as a red maneuver.

After revealing a maneuver you may flip this card.

S-foils: Closed Position (reversible)

Rebel Alliance X-wing only

Your action bard gains the Boost icon

All of your straight maneuvers are green and you may treat a 4 straight as a 5 straight

After revealing a maneuver you may flip this card.

Cost: 0pts

15 hours ago, GLEXOR said:

Or 5 Vaksais with any combination of 1 point upgrades. All three have 3 attack and 2 agility (striker is sort of an exemption with LWF), but the X-wing, the namesake of the game, the most iconic ship in Star Wars next to the Millennium Falcon, you can't field 5.

I agree that being able to field 5 T-65 X-wings is not unreasonable. However, we need to take some care to bring it into the price range of the other heavy swarmers without making it more powerful than the other heavy swarmers.

16 hours ago, GLEXOR said:

T-65 X-Wing

X-Wing only, title

When you reveal a {turn} maneuver, you may treat it as a red tallon roll of the same speed and in the same direction.

You may equip another different title.

SPs: -3

Ability - fine. Making the dial better would help a lot.

Price.....erm.

At -3 Points, you've got enough space for your putative 5 rookies to have Targeting Astromech and Integrated Astromech.

Being able to talon roll and still have a target lock is an extremely powerful ability to add - I have no problem with the X-wing having this, but I think that might be pushing it for a heavy swarmer.

Compare an R2 Astromech/Integrated Astromech Rookie to the other heavy swarmers (ignoring pilot skill since you always assume "lower than your opponent!" - the closest is probably the bomber:

Compared to the Unguided Rockets/Lightweight Frame Scimitar Squadron:

• A T-65 with integrated astromech has the same durability (6 hits versus 3 hits, 2 shields, and integrated astromech)
• A T-65 has essentially the same agility (because a bomber can't spend its focus defensively without crippling its offense unless at range 1, meaning 3 green dice to 2 focused green dice which can become 3 dice when at range 3 or obstructed)
• A T-65 has essentially the same firepower (3 attack dice which suffer range defence bonuses at range 3 but gain range attack bonuses at range 1, whilst the unguided rockets get neither)
• A T-65 has a massively better dial, epecially if the astromech is an R2, with the sole exception of the long speed 5 k-turn and the option of barrel roll (which messes with proton rockets)

Compared to the Mangler Cannon Heavy Scyk

• A T-65 with integrated astromech has much more durability (4 hits versus 3 hits, 2 shields, and integrated astromech)
• A T-65 has lower agility (3 vs 2)
• A T-65 has essentially the same firepower (3 attack dice which suffer range defence bonuses at range 3 but gain range attack bonuses at range 1, whilst the unguided rockets get neither), but the Mangler Scyk does have its hit-to-critical effect (on the other hand, the X-wing is impressively tolerant of criticals, with critical effects being irrelevant on over half its hit points)
• A T-65 has a pretty much equivalent dial - losing speed 1 turns but gaining speed 3 turns and speed 1 straights - if R2 astromech is in play, it also gains a massively superior green dial (although again the Scyk can barrel roll).

Compared to the Autothrusters Alpha Squadron Interceptor

• A T-65 with integrated astromech has massively more durability (3 hits versus 3 hits, 2 shields, and integrated astromech)
• A T-65 has lower agility (3 vs 2) and ridiculously lower agility at long range (where autothrusters make the interceptor night unhittable)
• A T-65 has the same firepower (3 attack dice)
• A T-65 has a slower, but not catastrophically worse dial - losing speed 1 turns and speed 5 straights but gaining speed 1 straights and banks - if R2 astromech is in play, it also has an essentially identical green dial. The Interceptor having both Boost and Barrel Roll are its key advantages

Compared to the Zealous Recruit

• A T-65 with integrated astromech has more durability (4 hits versus 3 hits, 2 shields, and integrated astromech)
• A T-65 has lower agility (3 vs 2)
• A T-65 has the same firepower (3 attack dice)
• A T-65 has a slower, but not catastrophically worse dial - losing speed 1 turns, speed 2 talon rolls and speed 5 straights but gaining speed 1 straights and banks - if R2 astromech is in play, it also has an essentially identical green dial. The Recruit having both Boost and Barrel Roll are its key advantages

Compared to the Thread Tracers/Failsafe/Chips/Dampeners Cartel Marauder

• A T-65 with integrated astromech has slightly more durability (4 hits, 1 shield versus 3 hits, 2 shields, and integrated astromech)
• A T-65 has the same agility (2)
• A T-65 has the same firepower (3 attack dice) although the Cartel Marauders can trade off one shot per turn to target lock the other 4
• A T-65 has a similar dial - losing speed 1 turns, and speed 5 koiogan turns but gaining speed 1 straights and speed 3 turns- if R2 astromech is in play, it also has a massively superior green dial, although the Marauder does have its one-use 'stop' button.

Compared to the Adaptive Ailerons/Lightweight Frame Scarif Defender

• A T-65 with integrated astromech has more durability (4 hits versus 3 hits, 2 shields, and integrated astromech)
• A T-65 has slightly lower agility (3 green dice to 2 green dice which can become 3 dice when at range 3 or obstructed)
• A T-65 has the same firepower (3 attack dice)
• A T-65 has a much worse dial the actual dial is pretty similar, but Adaptive Ailerons means the striker can massively outmanouvre it - however if if R2 astromech is in play, it also has a massively superior green dial. Barrel Roll does also need to be allowed for.
• A T-65 has a worse pilot skill (I know I said I was ignoring this, but this one has a specific value in that the Scarif Defender's PS3 is enough to avoid the worse effects of Predator)

Essentially, my view is that if you took an R2 astromech/Integrated Astromech Rookie, it could perform fairly well against the other heavy swarmers out there and wouldn't feel too powerful. Giving it the ability to talon roll is probably not needed but would help make the basic X-wing more fun to fly - especially since R2 astromech lets you come out of a talon roll into a hard turn! - but I think being able to talon roll (especially since as written you have a choice of two talon roll speeds meaning you've got quite a lot of fine control of your 'turnabout position' and still target lock might be a touch too good.

I'd rather not give the T-65 Boost. Boost, along with the green speed 3 straight is a part of what makes the T-70 'better' - I'm not saying the T70 should be better for its points (it shouldn't) but it should be objectively better ship-for-ship than its predecessor. Plus, boost on the action bar means the inevitable option of autothrusters to deal with, which is a big whack of power to balance for. If you absolutely must give it boost, you could give it a free boost (or barrel roll!) on [condition] without adding it to the action bar

Not to mention the inevitable issue of distinguishing, rules-wise, between the T-65 and T-70 - I guess the obvious option is the [Tech] upgrade, since theoretically an engine upgrade or shield upgrade could invalidate any boost or shield value-based restriction on the title.

Edited original post