32 minutes ago, Democratus said:

That's telling. The Emperor himself, the most powerful man in the galaxy, could only put together 37 ISDs and an SSD for a situation he had foreseen ahead of time?

ISDs must be hard to get.

The Galaxy is kinda huge. The Empire was probably busy doing other things.

Remember, the U.S. has 10 aircraft carriers, but they are never all in the same place. The same would hold true for Star Destroyers.

That said, I found it cheesy that the Emperor only brought a few dozen Star Destroyers. He knew the Rebels were coming and could have put together a fleet that could have finished the job without even firing the Death Star once. But he was a crazy old man who got sadistic pleasure in watching his enemies being blown to pieces by his toy, just like the Mad King.

Sorry for the side rant.

I've always found the 400pt limit a little small but it is for competitive play which of course revolves around how many games you can squeeze into a day's event, while still offering a fun/thematic experience.

We've taken to playing 600pt games, it's a nice increase in size that allows you to still fit the game into an evening - last nights game lasted 4hrs from obstacle deployment to handshake and points totaling. The only problem we've found is if both fleets are running at or close to 200pts of squadrons this can really add some time onto the game.

11 hours ago, Wraithdt said:

We all know the practical reason why standard play is capped at 400pts but thematically it still works, at least for me, because it has the space to fit a proper taskforce(eg. ISD w/ Sqd compliment, plus a 3-4 support ships). It definitely feels bigger than a mere patrol force.

That said, although I've yet to try it, a 500pt limit does sound like it may be the sweet spot between playability and thematic feel.

I'm thinking 450, it would get you up to 150 points in squads, or just that wee bit extra you needed to fit in another ship without making it naked.

7 minutes ago, eViL dAvE said:

I've always found the 400pt limit a little small but it is for competitive play which of course revolves around how many games you can squeeze into a day's event, while still offering a fun/thematic experience.

We've taken to playing 600pt games, it's a nice increase in size that allows you to still fit the game into an evening - last nights game lasted 4hrs from obstacle deployment to handshake and points totaling. The only problem we've found is if both fleets are running at or close to 200pts of squadrons this can really add some time onto the game.

Maybe for 600 points cap squads at 25% of total fleet cost for 150 squad points?

28 minutes ago, Battlefleet 01 Studios said:

That said, I found it cheesy that the Emperor only brought a few dozen Star Destroyers. He knew the Rebels were coming and could have put together a fleet that could have finished the job without even firing the Death Star once. But he was a crazy old man who got sadistic pleasure in watching his enemies being blown to pieces by his toy, just like the Mad King.

Sorry for the side rant.

It's possible that this is the largest fleet the Emperor could put together.

Oppressing 50 million worlds takes a lot of resources.

Just now, Democratus said:

It's possible that this is the largest fleet the Emperor could put together.

Oppressing 50 million worlds takes a lot of resources.

True. But still. I doubt the Empire put a Star Destroyer over EVERY world they occupied.

Just look at Rebels. Star Destroyers started showing up less and less as they brought in the Arquitens.

I mean, realistically he should have had (to play safe):

1 SSD

4 Bellator class Battlecruisers (1 for every 25 Star Destroyers)

100 Imperial Star Destroyers

Around 200 ships of other classes (Victory, Arquitens, Quasar, Raider, Gladiator)

Had the emperor mustered a force of this size and then allowed Piett to sic the Rebels there would be little Ackbar could do. Interdictors were preventing them from jumping away. Palpatine can even still use the Death Star if worse comes to worse.

Knowing there was a possibility that the Rebels might potentially get the shield down, Palpatine should have split his ships, and put half of them behind the Death Star, and move them into position when the trap was sprung. That could have helped prevent pilots from reaching the reactor, and the Rebels would have in my mind realized there was no escape, and the best thing they could do was try to succeed in the mission, whatever the cost. Those ships would prevent them from getting to there, and it would be the equivalent of Custer's last stand.

Then when the Alliance is annihilated, Palpatine blows up Endor, killing the strike team and ending the Rebellion once and for all.

That is the biggest battle of the war (at least the most pivotal) so it makes sense it would be a different scale than normal. If it was Star Wars: Battle of Endor, well then that would be a problem.

45 minutes ago, Battlefleet 01 Studios said:

The Galaxy is kinda huge. The Empire was probably busy doing other things.

Remember, the U.S. has 10 aircraft carriers, but they are never all in the same place. The same would hold true for Star Destroyers.

That said, I found it cheesy that the Emperor only brought a few dozen Star Destroyers. He knew the Rebels were coming and could have put together a fleet that could have finished the job without even firing the Death Star once. But he was a crazy old man who got sadistic pleasure in watching his enemies being blown to pieces by his toy, just like the Mad King.

Sorry for the side rant.

Remember. There job is not to destroy them, just to make sure they dont escape. The Emperor was super cocky. 37ISDs and a SSD was more than enough to quell that rebel fleet. he got overly cocky and held back. Once the deathstar blew up everyone beat feet to try and claim as much territory as they could.

Had the emperor not been cocky, he could have had the galaxy. But alas, he was.

A 400 point fleet technically could be considered an armada. It does feel a little small, but for SW it was probably normal. What you see at Endor was basically the entirety of the Rebel fleet. They would rarely engage in combat at that level. They took small groups and hit weak target that they knew they could beat. They couldn't constantly go up against 5 ISDs because they just don't have the numbers.

Even if the Imps had 25,000 ISDs. They are spread out across a galaxy. Hyperspace travel is not immediate, so you probably have thousands stuck in hyperspace at any time. You need 3-4 per system to effectively garrison/defend it. You have patrols of 1 ISD and some support looking for rebels/criminals. You have a number of them in spacedock for repairs/maintenance. Plus, you're going to have a number of them not on duty as the crew gets shore leave or is not currently on active duty. Even with 25,000 you probably never have more than 3 or 4 in any one location unless the Empire was planning some massive assault (like Endor).

Why didn't the Emperor bring more forces to Endor? In a bubble this seems like a fine question. However on a grand scale it doesn't. He needs to maintain order galaxy wide. A lot of places are on the verge of rebelling. Pulling large forces from those systems could cause more rebellions to flair up. On top of that, a sudden relocation of a large portion of their forces might be noticed. Two potential outcomes from this. First off, it might tip off the Rebels that there is a trap, and secondly it could open up better targets for the Rebels enticing them to completely ignore the trap.

Consider a situation where the Empire leaves just a single ISD in orbit of a few worlds on the verge of civil unrest. The Rebels see that opportunity and realize that Endor may be a trap, or that the Imps may be amassing for an attack on their base again. They could divide their forces to hit each of those systems at the same time. Suddenly they pull off a coordinated assault against several systems in one region of space and each of those worlds sees a lone ISD blowing up in orbit, or ripping up into pieces as it falls from orbit. The sudden rise in support for the Rebels could tip the galactic balance and cause a ripple effect of rebellions across the galaxy.

I agree with this notion. I mean yeah IF the rebs had shown up it was the emps best chance to crush them. But you right moving a crushing amount of SD to endor would of been a dead give a way.

Maybe if we look at this from a different perspective. The game considers each player to be an admiral, each in control of their own fleets. Perhaps the title of Armada was included to count all the admirals and each of their fleets as a collective.

"Star Wars: Armada is a competitive game of space warfare for two players. In each game, players take on the roles of Rebel and Imperial admirals, directing their fleets and countless weapons into explosive conflict. The victorious admiral will send the fiery remnants of his opponent’s fleet limping into hyperspace to beg forgiveness for their failure."

In such a way the literal thousands of players split between the two factions make up the hundreds of admirals needed to field and command the entire Armada.

It's called Armada because we're not just individual commanders of single fleets, we're a community of admirals commanding the massive Armada of Imperial/Rebel forces.


Boom. Question answered.

Mind blown....but wait who is the supreme commander of a conflicting zone then....do all imp player report directly to the emp. Are all rebel fleets just cells then?!? Wait that means that shop tournies are warzones, with multiple task groups joining up to Duke it out. And stuff like national and world's are like endor and scarrif.

This idea pleases me.

I think we've seen that "supreme commander" doesn't mean much in the Star Wars universe.

The Rebels do whatever rebels will do, including calling their own shots during battle.

In Star Wars:Rebels, even Thrawn was unable to maintain command of his own direct subordinates - as Konstantine's final battle clearly demonstrated.

Star Wars is a galaxy of mavericks - on both sides.

10 hours ago, CDAT said:

where we are not even close to fielding an armada, so you have no point.

Under some definitions, they are armadas. Just small ones.

Even under the most widely defined version of Armada, a Corellian Conflict all in Battle does apply.

For a Fleet is a collection of ships under a single command formed for a specific purpose.

An Armada is a collection of fleets under a unified command. Oh, look at that, you nominate a Grand Admiral.

Counts as a legal naval definition.

There is at least some point.

Gentleman, gentleman, I think we're in danger of mincing the finer points. Technically yes normal games do consist of an Armada. But I think the qeustion here is dose it feel like you playing one in game? ( At the recommended point level)

2 minutes ago, Noosh said:

Gentleman, gentleman, I think we're in danger of mincing the finer points. Technically yes normal games do consist of an Armada. But I think the qeustion here is dose it feel like you playing one in game? ( At the recommended point level)

No.

I feel like I am playing as advertised.

"A Game of Tactical Fleet Combat."

I think what you see on the table is very likely the size of battles in Star Wars. The Rebels lacked ships to go toe-to-toe with the Imperials, but the Imperials were spread thin to ensure control of the galaxy. In most of the media I've seen, 1-3 ISDs is the most you'd see at any location that wasn't a larger conflict.

From what little I've read about the ships, it seems like an ISD was designed to be an all-purpose occupation cruiser that shows up in a region and pacifies everyone with the large force that it can bear down on any enemy ship. Particularly difficult areas or key locations may have two+ ISDs (see Rogue 1). If you're hunting for potential stolen Death Star plans, you drop 3 ISDs (A New Hope).

As the game is designed, it also allows for other potential factions as you could easily see a small region mustering enough force to fight against a single region's Imperial force.

43 minutes ago, Noosh said:

Gentleman, gentleman, I think we're in danger of mincing the finer points. Technically yes normal games do consist of an Armada. But I think the qeustion here is dose it feel like you playing one in game? ( At the recommended point level)

Only partly. I feel like I am playing a battle believable in the Star Wars universe - one of importance and often great scale (2 HMC80s vs. 2 ISD-IIs, say), that tries my tactical abilities and makes me feel like an admiral, but not one of the epic scale that is, however inaccurately, associated with the word 'Armada'. For those, I play 2000+ games and feel like a Grand Admiral.

6 hours ago, FourDogsInaHorseSuit said:

You're not wrong, but this game already takes FOREVER so an actual armada of Armada would take longer than anyone has the attention span for.

Interesting, I find that the games are over to quick myself, when we play scenarios first shots normally fired on turn four. With turns 1-3 being just moving so they are quick, turn four just one or maybe two ships firing at long range, turn five being the first real turn of combat, and then turn six and the game is over.

regardless of terminology, I have always found the 400 fleet point limit more than a little suffocating for list building. It's fine to have to make choices in fleet building, but I feel like I can never fit more than the skeleton of a fleet that fits my vision for the game before I'm over the point limit with barely any squadrons or upgrades. Even just going up to the 420-450 range would be satisfactory for me personally.

doesn't mean the game needs to be changed to suit my tastes, but that's how I feel about it and it has kind of kept me from really diving into the local armada scene

3 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

No.

I feel like I am playing as advertised.

"A Game of Tactical Fleet Combat."

A fair point good sir. I enjoy this games mechanics and it dose an excellant job of fleet engagements. Sometimes i play and i miss the epic format that the title implies. Ill be blunt if the name were difffrent maybe this wouldnt be a thought wizzing maddly through my head occasionally. On ther other hand.... Star Wars : Armada is such a good name, and i dont think it would if gained as much traction as it has if it were named, for instance Star Wars: Skirmish battles ( or something else along this line)

1 hour ago, CDAT said:

Interesting, I find that the games are over to quick myself, when we play scenarios first shots normally fired on turn four. With turns 1-3 being just moving so they are quick, turn four just one or maybe two ships firing at long range, turn five being the first real turn of combat, and then turn six and the game is over.

Set up and tear down alone is about half an hour.

18 hours ago, Wraithdt said:

We all know the practical reason why standard play is capped at 400pts but thematically it still works, at least for me, because it has the space to fit a proper taskforce(eg. ISD w/ Sqd compliment, plus a 3-4 support ships). It definitely feels bigger than a mere patrol force.

That said, although I've yet to try it, a 500pt limit does sound like it may be the sweet spot between playability and thematic feel.

500 to even 600 points is definitely the sweet range for reasonably big thematic battles. 700 to 800 is when it slows down.

Yeah, let's be honest an ISD, a Quasar, a couple of smaller ships and half a dozen fighters isn't an "Armada" is it! I don't think the game lacks any enjoyment because of that though.

As long as it didn't warp any of the objectives I'd happily play regularly at 500 points though I don't think pushing the limits any further than that would be worth it in terms of enjoyment versus complexity and time taken to complete the game. I'd also be a bit concerned about the possible effect of bigger fleets than 500 points on objectives.

At least we have avoided the ludicrous situation in X Wing where the Emperor turns up in a fighter skirmish. FFS what were they thinking of???? Oh yeah I remember, you need to buy a big ship for the dead "epic" format to get his card. No thanks.