Lowhhrick Ability Vs Omega Leader

By HanScottFirst, in X-Wing Rules Questions

OL w/evade has Biggs locked, rolls 1 hit. Biggs rolls (focus) (evade). The (evade) gets "juked," but Lowhhrick spends his reinforce to add 1 evade to Bigg's dice pool.

Is that right? Lowhhrick's ability adds a result, so it is not modifying dice. That result would not be "juked," bc defender modifies dice after the attacker, so Biggs would dodge the 1 hit OL rolled.

Adding a result is considered modifying a result. Plus Lowhhrick's ability says the defender does the adding. Which makes it not work even more.

1 hour ago, arkhamssaber said:

Adding a result is considered modifying a result. Plus Lowhhrick's ability says the defender does the adding. Which makes it not work even more.

There's precedent both ways. Unclear until faqed.

1 hour ago, thespaceinvader said:

There's precedent both ways. Unclear until faqed.

What precedent has allowed a ship to add an evade result itself while target locked by OL?

Almost certain there isn't any. Ships can use accuracy corrector to cancel dice, but can't add the reds.

Like you said though, with Lowhhrick it us the defender, ie, Biggs, ie the ship targeted by OL adding the Evade. Which he can't do

Edited by Goseki1

Precedent is M9G8. It forces the friendly ship (while locked) to reroll a die, and can because the source of the modification is the ship with m9g8.
Lowhrick is the same. It spends the reinforce token and forces the friendly ship (as there is no "may" anywhere) to add the evade result. The source of the modification is Lowhrick, so that modification can be made.

EDIT: Or cannot. I'm just telling what the precedent is. It needs clarification.

Edited by Willy Jarque

Lowhhrick is spending the reinforce token, but his ability clearly states "the defender adds 1 evade result." Which it can't do because of Omega Leader.

The thing with m9 is that the card says "...you may choose 1 die. The attacker must reroll that die." The only other support card that is worded that way is pre-nerf Palp, which also was rolled too get around OL.

Lowie is so close to that with his wording that I would allow it in a casual game. For official purposes I will defer to the eagerly anticipated FAQ of course as both M9 and Palp were only settled after FAQ clarifications.

You/your is clearly defined in the rules, which is why M9 works. Lowhhrick unequivocally won't work on a ship locked by OL because it clearly states that the lockrd ship adds the Evade, not Lowhhrick.

27 minutes ago, Goseki1 said:

You/your is clearly defined in the rules, which is why M9 works. Lowhhrick unequivocally won't work on a ship locked by OL because it clearly states that the locked ship adds the Evade, not Lowhhrick.

M9 clearly states that the locked ship re-rolls the die also, but the FAQ says it works.

I get why you would initially think Lowhhrick doesn't work, but based on the M9 ruling I'm pretty sure you're wrong. I see no basis for not allowing Lowhhrick to work if the FAQ says M9 does. He's functionally identical to M9-G8.

M9-G8: When a ship you have locked is attacking, you may choose 1 attack die. The attacker must re-roll that die.

Lowhhrick: When another friendly ship at Range 1 is defending, you may spend 1 reinforce token. If you do, the defender adds 1 evade result.

M9 says "the attacker must re-roll" not "you re-roll". Lowhhrick says "the defender adds" not "you add". It's exactly the same framing. There is no"may" in either case so the modification is forced by an outside source. I actually agree that the RAW would indicate that both M9 and Lowhhrick should not bypass Omega but the FAQ is clear that M9 does in fact work, so based on that I think you have to let Lowhhrick work also.

Having said that I wouldn't be totally shocked if FFG ruled that Lowhhrick in fact does NOT work, it wouldn't be the first thing that was a bit inconsistent, but absent a ruling as such I think the M9 precedent makes this pretty clear for now.

I'm not sure that the FAQ really supports M9-G8 getting around Omega Leader IF OL has the ship with M9-G8 locked. From the OL entry (emphasis mine):

Quote

If “Omega Leader” has an enemy ship locked, when that ship attacks or defends against “Omega Leader,” that ship cannot resolve abilities that would modify dice, even 0 dice, such as Keyan Farlander’s ability. Additionally, that ship cannot resolve abilities that cause “Omega Leader” to reroll his dice (such as R7 Astromech or Elusiveness), as these are abilities that modify dice.

and the M9-G8 entry:

Quote

When using M9-G8, the source of the reroll is the ship equipped with M9-G8, not the ship attacking. For example, if a ship is attacking with Snap Shot, a ship equipped with M9-G8 can cause that ship to reroll a die.

R7 and Elusiveness have almost the exact same wording as M9-G8 and are both called out as not being able to be used to force a OL re-roll. The M9-G8 entry makes it clear that the re-roll is from the ship equipped with M9-G8 and so I would say that the R7 and Elusiveness re-rolls are also sourced from the ship that equips them, not the attacking ship. Using that precedent, I'd say M9-G8 can't force a OL re-roll IF OL has the ship with M9-G8 locked.

However, in the scenario above, if Omega Leader has a target lock on Biggs, and M9-G8 has a target lock on Biggs (or OL for that matter), M9-G8 can force an attack die re-roll, since the source ship is not the one target locked, which works just like Palp.

Lowhhrick, on the other hand, specifies that it is the defender that adds a result, not Lowhhrick. So if OL has Lowhhrick locked, Lowhhrick could use his pilot ability to help out Biggs, but couldn't use the reinforce token to add an evade result for himself against an OL attack. And if OL has Biggs locked, that would be reversed (Biggs can't add an evade when OL attacks, but Lowhhrick could use it for himself).

9 hours ago, Nspace said:

If Omega Leader has a target lock on Biggs, and M9-G8 has a target lock on Biggs (or OL for that matter), M9-G8 can force an attack die re-roll, since the source ship is not the one target locked, which works just like Palp.

Lowhhrick, on the other hand, specifies that it is the defender that adds a result, not Lowhhrick. So if OL has Lowhhrick locked, Lowhhrick could use his pilot ability to help out Biggs, but couldn't use the reinforce token to add an evade result for himself against an OL attack. And if OL has Biggs locked, that would be reversed (Biggs can't add an evade when OL attacks, but Lowhhrick could use it for himself).

Nspace, you made my exact argument but then came down with the opposite conclusion somehow.

Just read my post above yours, M9 and Lowhhrick are phrased identically in how they operate on another ship, I have them quoted up there. The only difference is one is on attack and the other is on defense but that is irrelevant.

Both effects are non-optional dice modifiaction for Biggs. If M9 works than Lowhhrick does too.

I think the key with M9-G8 is that it's the ship with M9-G8 doing the choosing of the die. "The attacker" rerolls said die, because generally you don't roll your opponent's dice for them. The intent of the "you may choose" on M9-G8 is what makes M9-G8 the source of the modification. Lowhhrick specifies "the defender" adds the result. Lowhrrick isn't choosing anything -- the defender is already chosen by the attacker choosing his target. The defender adding the result is just that, the defender adding the result.

Lowhrrick can spend his Reinforce all he wants, but the target-locked defender can't add an evade.

Eisai said it better than I could. :) For Lowhrrick to work like M9-G8, the phrasing would have to be different, maybe something like: "When another friendly ship at Range 1 is defending, you may spend 1 reinforce token. If you do, you may add 1 evade result to the defender's roll."