Rhaegar Targaryen and renown

By player666653, in 2. AGoT Rules Discussion

1. The response for this character reads:

Response : After Rhaegar Targaryen is killed, end the current round. Proceed to the next plot phase. Any player can trigger this response.

Is this as broken as it sounds e.g. stopping the framework window dead so that no renown or unapposed power is rewarded?

2. Another interesting question from my last melee is what happens if I declare attackers with a character that doesn't kneel to attack the initial target (Red Viper), if the attack is redirected am I right in thinking I don't then have to kneel it?

Fai said:

1. The response for this character reads:

Response : After Rhaegar Targaryen is killed, end the current round. Proceed to the next plot phase. Any player can trigger this response.

Is this as broken as it sounds e.g. stopping the framework window dead so that no renown or unapposed power is rewarded?

You're going to want to check your timing window again. You are making a (fairly common) mistake about Responses in a framework action window. When a military challenge resolves, there are 4 framework events that you need to resolve:

1. Determine winner
2. Settle claim
3. Award "unopposed" if earned
4. Award "Renown" if earned

As with all framework actions windows, you must resolve all the framework effects before passives or Responses to any individual event can be activated/triggered. So you cannot play a Response to winning/losing the challenge (#1) before all the other framework events (#2-4) are resolved.

For example, say you have just one card in your hand and you lose an intrigue challenge. The card happens to be an event card that says "Response: after you lose a challenge...." Do you get to play it, or do you lose it for claim? Well, since you cannot Respond to losing the challenge (#1 above) until all the other framework events are resolved, claim will be settled before any player can use a Response. You lose the card to claim before you can use it.

What you are trying to do is trigger Rhaegar's Response after he dies in the second framework event - when actually you cannot trigger his Response until framework events #3 and #4 and all passive effects activated by anything in framework events #1-#4 are resolved. Heck, you can play other Responses before triggering Rhaegar's Response.

So no, Rhaegar cannot stop a challenge resolution before unopposed and Renown are rewarded because you cannot trigger the Response before unopposed and Renown are awarded. It is a pretty powerful ability, though.

And, of course, don't forget that Rhaegar's ability can be used no matter how he dies, not just after a lost military challenge.

Fai said:

2. Another interesting question from my last melee is what happens if I declare attackers with a character that doesn't kneel to attack the initial target (Red Viper), if the attack is redirected am I right in thinking I don't then have to kneel it?

If a challenge is redirected, the attackers have already been declared. You do not "go backwards" and re-declare them or re-check restrictions on declaring attackers related to the new defending player. You're already past that point in the game.