So with more Omega Leader like mechanics such as Jam and snapshot another one is coming out (as if green dice weren't fickle enough). Get hit with this and 3 agility isn't that good without tokens. (Hey look 2 eyes and a blank). SO it looks like FFG is trying to shape the meta away from the uber action economy of mindlink and evade tokens, as well as remove more of the RNG mechanics from dice. So it is onyl a matter of time before both Rebels and Imperials get their bulls-eye. Question is which ship and what wave.

So thought on the new green-dice less meta?

Doesn't that put emphasis on better maneuvering and higher PS skill?

Doesn't this actually encourage more arc-dodging? Isn't that a thing people want to see more of?

But less modifications means more RNG?

Also that arc is tiny. You can already check now if you're curious and see how often you get someone in there

Yeah it can be hard enough sometimes to eyeball arcs when deciding to roll or boost (or if a talon/segnors will get you in). This makes it 10 times harder to judge but really rewards you for it.

I can't wait to see how great some flying becomes because of this (to use it and to avoid it)

Small base aces can still arc dodge with little to no problem. If it can afford to take VI, it becomes more of an issue, but I'm kind of doubting it can afford that. Big base ships are gonna be hit hard, but that might not be a bad thing.

4 minutes ago, TGO said:

Doesn't that put emphasis on better maneuvering and higher PS skill?

By George, he's got it!

3 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

But less modifications means more RNG?

Also that arc is tiny. You can already check now if you're curious and see how often you get someone in there

Very true, however...

The Kimo has a PS 8 pilot with an EPT (could be PS 10), has a 4 k-turn and a salvaged astromech slot (so all 3 speed maneuvers could be green), and has a native barrel roll.

1 minute ago, SabineKey said:

Small base aces can still arc dodge with little to no problem. If it can afford to take VI, it becomes more of an issue, but I'm kind of doubting it can afford that. Big base ships are gonna be hit hard, but that might not be a bad thing.

That is a good point - this puts more stress on large ships than small ones

This is also going to encourage token-less modifications. Expertise, Latts Razzi, Lone Wolf, Predator, Glitterstim, and so on all work quite well in an environment full of token-strippers.

This is the kind of powercreep that SHOULD be a thing: incredibly difficult to pull off but devastating when it does.

Nobody capable of dogfighting should ever be caught in that thing's bullseye arc unless they get bumped (which negates the point of the bullseye arc anyway). True top pilot can be PS10, but i think its actually sacrificing alot to do that unlike Nym.

1 minute ago, EdgeOfDreams said:

This is also going to encourage token-less modifications. Expertise, Latts Razzi, Lone Wolf, Predator, Glitterstim, and so on all work quite well in an environment full of token-strippers.

As if they weren't already everywhere

1 minute ago, EdgeOfDreams said:

This is also going to encourage token-less modifications. Expertise, Latts Razzi, Lone Wolf, Predator, Glitterstim, and so on all work quite well in an environment full of token-strippers.

The bullseye arc is not a token stripper, Jam is. Bullseye does nothing to spending tokens on offense so Expertise and Predator are no more encouraged than they already were.

4 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

Small base aces can still arc dodge with little to no problem. If it can afford to take VI, it becomes more of an issue, but I'm kind of doubting it can afford that. Big base ships are gonna be hit hard, but that might not be a bad thing.

Right.. Small bases that can get to PS 10 because..

3 minutes ago, spartan1128 said:

Very true, however...

The Kimo has a PS 8 pilot with an EPT (could be PS 10), has a 4 k-turn and a salvaged astromech slot (so all 3 speed maneuvers could be green), and has a native barrel roll.

It's only 27 points. VI is not going to be a "sink" or even a question. There may be some other options, but we're seeing now more than ever that PS is king (once again). It's just been ticked up from 9 to 10. Next is Spinal Tap territory.

1 minute ago, Vineheart01 said:

This is the kind of powercreep that SHOULD be a thing: incredibly difficult to pull off but devastating when it does.

Nobody capable of dogfighting should ever be caught in that thing's bullseye arc unless they get bumped (which negates the point of the bullseye arc anyway). True top pilot can be PS10, but i think its actually sacrificing alot to do that unlike Nym.

Eh... see the big bolded words above.

Just now, Vineheart01 said:

This is the kind of powercreep that SHOULD be a thing: incredibly difficult to pull off but devastating when it does.

Nobody capable of dogfighting should ever be caught in that thing's bullseye arc unless they get bumped (which negates the point of the bullseye arc anyway). True top pilot can be PS10, but i think its actually sacrificing alot to do that unlike Nym.

Right. All the ships that I see use VI regularly (Vader, Han, /sf pilots, Nym) have some other way to boost their action economy/rerolls. Kimo's don't really seem to have that.

One small upside is the ship will essentially check its bullseye firing arc every time it makes a straight maneuver.

3 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

As if they weren't already everywhere

Shooting at let's say Assajj with Latts is still a vast improvement vs. shooting at Assajj with Latts, Focus and Evade.

I really want an EPT that gives anyone a Bullseye Firing Arc.

It's the perfect thing to represent an ace shooter.

15 minutes ago, TGO said:

Doesn't that put emphasis on better maneuvering and higher PS skill?

yup making Major Juggler's and all those other newly balanced format on jousting values obsolete.

14 minutes ago, gennataos said:

Doesn't this actually encourage more arc-dodging? Isn't that a thing people want to see more of?

Well define which type of people? There are those that wan't to see TIE Interceptors do better, but again ships like those arc dodgers do depend on the green dice a little. Take the green dice mods away and the fold like paper. Of course people say something but then actions turn up to say the opposite. The Jumpmaster does a good job at Arc Dodging and people hate it for that.

When it comes to the meta, I have come to realize that it is not one game of X-wing that people want to see but instead several different kinds. Which is why I am usually opposed to all these nerf-herding threads. The math guys want to see jousting values and like the gambling aspect of throwing the dice. They want high risk and high reward for their games. Sure things like Palpatine and C-3PO infuriate them because it removes the surprise of that clutch roll that can take out a ship. The chess players want to see the position and guessing (although the pilot skill and reposistioning actions after maneuver removes some of that) as in outfoxing their opponents. The Star Wars fans want to see their iconic ships they love from the movies (thus the Make X-wings great again). All these competing interests often come into conflict with one another and people get pissed off that their game is not shaping the way they want it to be.

A video that is a little off the subject but it does deal with the revelation that the community rarely agrees as one entity. Put people in a group and you will find that the group is rather fractured and X-wing is no exception.

1 minute ago, SabineKey said:

Right. All the ships that I see use VI regularly (Vader, Han, /sf pilots, Nym) have some other way to boost their action economy/rerolls. Kimo's don't really seem to have that.

That and it probably won't have an amazing dial

They've known full well how to avoid giving unhinged to **** that would complete ly invalidate their own weaknesses with it (after the jm5k) so hopefully same holds true for this guy

But if you show up with VI Vader and QD with cruise...well this poor dude's just ******

Maybe we'll see the bullseye arc on episode 8 ships. I'd take a Resistance A-Wing or TIE Silencer with that ability.

2 minutes ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

Right.. Small bases that can get to PS 10 because..

It's only 27 points. VI is not going to be a "sink" or even a question. There may be some other options, but we're seeing now more than ever that PS is king (once again). It's just been ticked up from 9 to 10. Next is Spinal Tap territory.

Eh... see the big bolded words above.

Until we see it's dial, I am still iffy if going VI is its best option. It's still a Y-Wing defensively.

16 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

So thought on the new green-dice less meta?

What green-dice less meta? It's one ship and potentially quite difficult to pull off with most of the pilots due to lower PS. Sure, the top pilot is PS8/10 but if the dial isn't great he may have to BR a lot to get that Bullseye on target, leaving him without modifications himself. Also, the ship hardly seems highly durable with 8 health and 1 Agility. How many shots will it manage to get off, let alone shots utilising Bullseye?

We know so little about the ship at this point (the dial will be very important, I think) it seems ridiculously premature to declare green dice dead. Sadly, it also seems to be the way these forums have been going recently.

16 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

But less modifications means more RNG?

There still is the odds and the mathwinger jousters do want to see how different odds stack up. So no it isn't more or less RNG but rather less variables to calculate, and the math wingers who love to crunch joutsing numbers don't like that.

14 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

yup making Major Juggler's and all those other newly balanced format on jousting values obsolete.

Well define which type of people? There are those that wan't to see TIE Interceptors do better, but again ships like those arc dodgers do depend on the green dice a little. Take the green dice mods away and the fold like paper. Of course people say something but then actions turn up to say the opposite. The Jumpmaster does a good job at Arc Dodging and people hate it for that.

When it comes to the meta, I have come to realize that it is not one game of X-wing that people want to see but instead several different kinds. Which is why I am usually opposed to all these nerf-herding threads. The math guys want to see jousting values and like the gambling aspect of throwing the dice. They want high risk and high reward for their games. Sure things like Palpatine and C-3PO infuriate them because it removes the surprise of that clutch roll that can take out a ship. The chess players want to see the position and guessing (although the pilot skill and reposistioning actions after maneuver removes some of that) as in outfoxing their opponents. The Star Wars fans want to see their iconic ships they love from the movies (thus the Make X-wings great again). All these competing interests often come into conflict with one another and people get pissed off that their game is not shaping the way they want it to be.

I think this is a really important point. I know people who loved flying Palp Aces and thought it was the most fun this game ever was. I also know people who hated Palp Aces and thought it was going to be the death of the game. The same could be said for almost any other popular or top-tier list. You can't have every playstyle be exactly equally viable at all times.

One thing you CAN do, however, is make each playstyle viable at different times. One wave brings arc dodgers to the fore, another does turrets, the next does jousters with multiple arcs, the one after that does alpha strikes, and in-between waves you get buffs for old ships and the occasional FAQ nerf. It's not perfect, but it can be done well.