ok, so I had my second game last night and I played the tutorial mission again with a different opponent. First game I just about won with a little bit of luck but I didn't feel I stomped home.

Last night I used my undead infantry to tarpit the spearmen and her while my worm and Ardus took out the golem who fell in a single blow.

I then watched as the worm and Ardus got massacred by that ability.

I don't understand why she is 32pt when Ardus is 37pt and she does double damage and gets a reroll while he just gets double damage. She can also shoot making her more versatile and that ability when she attacks in melee and gets a surge she also shoots anyone within 1 - 5. It's just silly. The White dice vs the blue dice of her is nice as the golem can attest but nowhere near as silly as her

I understand she isn't untouchable but for the points she is insanely good

Heroes are beasts at 100 pts, you don't really have the tools to deal with any of them. Ardus also swings double white and had what is probably the absolute best hero ability to date - reducing the requirements to equip upgrades on units.

1) don't let Kari engage something she can easily weather while throwing surges

2) Go play a full game then report back.

Ok, I accept that cheers, I'll wind my neck in

Also the 37 pt cost of ardus is because of his ridiculously useful list building ability...in 200 pt games the fact that you can upgrade you units with the lower formations, out weighs kari's melee surge ability...and yeah she is pretty easy to kill if you hit her right, a blight and a worm charge and she become Kari Wraithpaste.

@Darthain

I agree with you, that the ability of Ardus is very powerful, if you build up lists, which use this ability and save thereby a lot of points.

But if you build up a list, that only needs a close combat hero and you don't use the ability of Ardus, he is too expensive. Same is with Maro.

I don't understand why this ability is not used like the titles in Xwing, if you need them, you can use, otherwise not.

Ardus turns things to paste, adding a reroll to him is cheap. The ability to grab abilities from other units, giving him Mortal Strikes off of surges or blight adding, or even healing from maro, is pretty good as well. His list building ability is far superior to Kari's now useless elf adding.

4 minutes ago, Waywardpaladin said:

Ardus turns things to paste, adding a reroll to him is cheap. The ability to grab abilities from other units, giving him Mortal Strikes off of surges or blight adding, or even healing from maro, is pretty good as well. His list building ability is far superior to Kari's now useless elf adding.

But we got elves now. 4x1 deepwood archers are hilarious.

52 minutes ago, TallGiraffe said:

But we got elves now. 4x1 deepwood archers are hilarious.

But soon enough we'll have crossbowmen, and the elves now can't get Latari nor Daqan upgrades.

14 minutes ago, Waywardpaladin said:

But soon enough we'll have crossbowmen, and the elves now can't get Latari nor Daqan upgrades.

Tempered steel and rank discipline for a consistent 8-12 damage.

45 minutes ago, TallGiraffe said:

Tempered steel and rank discipline for a consistent 8-12 damage.

If you have both Kari and Hawthorne taking up your points.

Just now, Waywardpaladin said:

If you have both Kari and Hawthorne taking up your points.

Not like they can't kill stuff too.

Just now, TallGiraffe said:

Not like they can't kill stuff too.

Oh certainly, I just see a lot of people bagging on heroes period that I imagine they'd be wary of including both to bring in a unit of elves when soon we can have our own.

1 hour ago, Waywardpaladin said:

But soon enough we'll have crossbowmen, and the elves now can't get Latari nor Daqan upgrades.

I think this will continue to be an issue until we see some unit assymetry in factions, we are still at the basic pieces (ranged and melee infantry, cavalry, and a 'siege' which is the only really assymetrical unit announced per faction (so far). Once they start to get more into their own, taking other factions units might actually make sense. This is with the big caveat, I hope, as unfortunately limiting them to neutral upgrades rather lowers their potential (but I completely understand it).

57 minutes ago, Waywardpaladin said:

Oh certainly, I just see a lot of people bagging on heroes period that I imagine they'd be wary of including both to bring in a unit of elves when soon we can have our own.

Kari with Fortuna may not be the toughest but for 38 points guaranteed 4 damage at range.

10 hours ago, Darthain said:

Heroes are beasts at 100 pts, you don't really have the tools to deal with any of them. Ardus also swings double white and had what is probably the absolute best hero ability to date - reducing the requirements to equip upgrades on units.

1) don't let Kari engage something she can easily weather while throwing surges

2) Go play a full game then report back.

I agree 100% judging anything off less than a 200 point game is so tough, because that is where the game is balanced. Also as Darthain said Ardus' hero ability is bananas!!! It saves you so many points on things like an Ankaur Maro battery. Using Ankaur's upgrade in a 2x2 of reanimates instead of a 3x2 is a huge boost in point savings.

Keep Kari engaged at a distance or with something that can kill her quickly, like Ardus himself.

5 hours ago, Waywardpaladin said:

Ardus turns things to paste, adding a reroll to him is cheap. The ability to grab abilities from other units, giving him Mortal Strikes off of surges or blight adding, or even healing from maro, is pretty good as well. His list building ability is far superior to Kari's now useless elf adding.

You just blew my mind, I never thought about him being able to heal when near Maro, I don't know why, but wow!!!

And Ardus (with the right roll and support) can wipe out 4 trays of Oathsworn or Rune Golems in one hit.

At 100pts shes underpriced. Ardus is about the only thing that can reliably kill her and usually she can plink him away pretty easy before he reaches her (ranged or that ability)

200pts, i find her kinda pointless. She does nothing for the army as a standalone hero. Her armybuilding rule is wasted since the only unit it works on is elven archers and due to the "no faction upgrades PERIOD" faq i dont even feel like theyre worth bringing in the slightest. Shes amazing as a champion upgrade though.

Ardus grants his entire army upgrades they normally wouldnt have access. Thats why hes 5pts more. In exchange for no ranged attack and 5pts he gets 2white dice and his entire army can grab vital equipment (literally) without taking massive blobs of units, allowing MSU play to be much better off.
He's still a beast in melee. he was nicknamed "The Blender" upon release for a reason lol

7 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

She does nothing for the army as a standalone hero.

If you do it right, her surge ability can still deal horrifying amounts of damage while ignoring LOS. On my table she's notorious for spontaneously deleting worms and 2x1 archer units.

Just now, Contrapulator said:

If you do it right, her surge ability can still deal horrifying amounts of damage while ignoring LOS. On my table she's notorious for spontaneously deleting worms and 2x1 archer units.

Which applies to the champion upgrade at a much lower cost.
Yeah, Spearmen have less odds at surges but she adds a blue die anyway.
18pts vs 32pts, significantly harder to remove her ability from the game.

Just now, Vineheart01 said:

Which applies to the champion upgrade at a much lower cost.
Yeah, Spearmen have less odds at surges but she adds a blue die anyway.
18pts vs 32pts, significantly harder to remove her ability from the game.

Good point, and actually if you put her in a larger Spearman unit it only extends her reach that much further. Muahahaha!

1 minute ago, Vineheart01 said:

Which applies to the champion upgrade at a much lower cost.
Yeah, Spearmen have less odds at surges but she adds a blue die anyway.
18pts vs 32pts, significantly harder to remove her ability from the game.

This is my experience, too. The figure upgrade in a block of spearmen, while Lord Hawthorne rides his steed into battle, leading his 4x1's. That's just all around brutal.

Kari is a fantastic problem solver with Fortuna's Dice. Being able to dial in that Accuracy+Hit result on her Blue die means she can execute most figure upgrades in a single shot, frequently while still inflicting more wounds to the unit. Just top notch against Blighted Vexillum Banners, Necromancers, Citadel Weapons Masters, Eagle Banner Bearers, etc. There are some high impact figure upgrades out there, and casually deleting them is a big deal.

Plus, once she get into melee she's doing a lot of damage every attack. Just gotta find a target that won't kill her too quick.

On 8/28/2017 at 5:05 PM, Bhelliom said:

Kari is a fantastic problem solver with Fortuna's Dice. Being able to dial in that Accuracy+Hit result on her Blue die means she can execute most figure upgrades in a single shot, frequently while still inflicting more wounds to the unit. Just top notch against Blighted Vexillum Banners, Necromancers, Citadel Weapons Masters, Eagle Banner Bearers, etc. There are some high impact figure upgrades out there, and casually deleting them is a big deal.

Plus, once she get into melee she's doing a lot of damage every attack. Just gotta find a target that won't kill her too quick.

This exactly, especially if you manage to engage something small and then dial and throw surges while laughing. Someone engaged me with a 2*1 and I started throwing 4-5 surges instead of damage.

This was my exact thought when one time I engaged a 4 tray reanimate. Forget it had executioner....