A few examples that go beyond Anakin:

• Ahsoka Tano and Ezra Bridger were both 14 when their stories began.
• Younglings are aged 4-8; so the ones who go up against Hando and his pirates are probably 7-8 years old. While they struggled, they didn't necessarily struggle more than an adult would have - they were starting characters going up against others.
• Zett Jukassa was 10 when he died. He was that bad-*** padawan killed on the temple bridge in front of Organa during the Jedi Purge. Sure, he died, but he managed more than most of the masters.

Just as a possibility:

instead of nerfing the character in attributes, make the special obligation:

"kid/Teen: When ever the Character has to do something that isn't approtiate to its high or age (like driving a speederbike or trying to fire that overdimensionized Blaster karabin, talking about peace contracts with a Hutt) he charackter has to add 2 Setbacks to the check. And sometimes has to make an check were an adult would automatically would succed (like jumping on table) [GMs disicion]"

That way you would resemble the problems of kids on interacting with the world of the adults while not actually nering them. and the char would be able to gain the possibility of gaining Talent that would help her to overcome this setbacks thanks to his training (e.g. conditioned or outdoorsmen)

as for starter carrer, you said you talked to her, so what do you think she would like? a support or attack character? For Support the sage is very good for starters and as attacker the niman or armorer.

Why I wouldn't nerf?

Well I also play a lot with kids (on Cons as well as in the Games-Club) and in my expirience especially younger kids really like to roll the dice, the more the better (even the not so nice black ones) to have the youngest rolling less dice than her siblings could lead to some kind of misunderstanding on herside of being discriminated for beeing the youngest, (this effect can be immidieatly or increase over time. Of course it mustn't be, it just can. As you statet you know her better than me or anyone here, so you are the only one to know how much mature she is/ can be)

with the setback solution she can (with dice luck) achieve feats that a normal kid wouldn't be able to, then again she is force sensitive and it will set her spirits up to see that she can accomplish a lot of things, even if it is harder for her.

hope this helps.

4 hours ago, Nightone said:

Just as a possibility:

instead of nerfing the character in attributes, make the special obligation:

"kid/Teen: When ever the Character has to do something that isn't approtiate to its high or age (like driving a speederbike or trying to fire that overdimensionized Blaster karabin, talking about peace contracts with a Hutt) he charackter has to add 2 Setbacks to the check. And sometimes has to make an check were an adult would automatically would succed (like jumping on table) [GMs disicion]"

That way you would resemble the problems of kids on interacting with the world of the adults while not actually nering them. and the char would be able to gain the possibility of gaining Talent that would help her to overcome this setbacks thanks to his training (e.g. conditioned or outdoorsmen)

as for starter carrer, you said you talked to her, so what do you think she would like? a support or attack character? For Support the sage is very good for starters and as attacker the niman or armorer.

Why I wouldn't nerf?

Well I also play a lot with kids (on Cons as well as in the Games-Club) and in my expirience especially younger kids really like to roll the dice, the more the better (even the not so nice black ones) to have the youngest rolling less dice than her siblings could lead to some kind of misunderstanding on herside of being discriminated for beeing the youngest, (this effect can be immidieatly or increase over time. Of course it mustn't be, it just can. As you statet you know her better than me or anyone here, so you are the only one to know how much mature she is/ can be)

with the setback solution she can (with dice luck) achieve feats that a normal kid wouldn't be able to, then again she is force sensitive and it will set her spirits up to see that she can accomplish a lot of things, even if it is harder for her.

hope this helps.

See, this is the kind of help I'm asking for

I'm actually going to go with that suggestion in large parts.
The only thing I'm actually going to nerf is brawn, as kids are not as large and resiliant as adults.

17 hours ago, SavageBob said:

I don't think anyone here has any issue with you creating the kid's PC for them. If you think that's best for this situation, do it. It works for con games.

We're telling you that nerfing the PC is a bad idea. And it is. But you seem to be resistant to all the logic folks here have outlined, so why do you keep coming back to this discussion?

Oh, maybe I come back to see if I've actually gotten a response that's relevant and not just "don't do it"?

As for people not having an issue with me creating the kid's PC for them, I suggest you re-read the thread.

17 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Well, that's not quite what I mean. What I mean is that the actual age of adulthood varies radically from one species to the next. Specifically, who quickly a given species reaches physical adulthood is different for each species.

Oh, I know.
I was just pointing out that the physical age of adulthood varies even within the species.

4 hours ago, Nightone said:

Just as a possibility:

instead of nerfing the character in attributes, make the special obligation:

"kid/Teen: When ever the Character has to do something that isn't approtiate to its high or age (like driving a speederbike or trying to fire that overdimensionized Blaster karabin, talking about peace contracts with a Hutt) he charackter has to add 2 Setbacks to the check. And sometimes has to make an check were an adult would automatically would succed (like jumping on table) [GMs disicion]"

That way you would resemble the problems of kids on interacting with the world of the adults while not actually nering them. and the char would be able to gain the possibility of gaining Talent that would help her to overcome this setbacks thanks to his training (e.g. conditioned or outdoorsmen)

as for starter carrer, you said you talked to her, so what do you think she would like? a support or attack character? For Support the sage is very good for starters and as attacker the niman or armorer.

Why I wouldn't nerf?

Well I also play a lot with kids (on Cons as well as in the Games-Club) and in my expirience especially younger kids really like to roll the dice, the more the better (even the not so nice black ones) to have the youngest rolling less dice than her siblings could lead to some kind of misunderstanding on herside of being discriminated for beeing the youngest, (this effect can be immidieatly or increase over time. Of course it mustn't be, it just can. As you statet you know her better than me or anyone here, so you are the only one to know how much mature she is/ can be)

with the setback solution she can (with dice luck) achieve feats that a normal kid wouldn't be able to, then again she is force sensitive and it will set her spirits up to see that she can accomplish a lot of things, even if it is harder for her.

hope this helps.

Nightone put into words what I was was attempting (Rather poorly) to suggest. Kudos. I wholeheartedly approve this suggestion.

Glad whenever I can be of service!

So, character is now created.

Here's how I proceeded;
I sat down with the girl and we had a quick chat about the characters background (which I made up since it's part of my next session setup), and she was very happy and excited about that background.

(The basic background is that her parents were wealthy Imperial aristocrats and officers, and when it was discovered that she was force sensitive, she was promptly taken away and put into a secret facility where she was to be trained to become an inquisitor at an older age, or die if she failed the training. She was then kidnapped by pirates during a transport to a new facility and she was then frozen down to be sold to the highest bidder, which is where the group comes in as the crew hired to transport this "mystery box")

She got to pick her name (which became V, for the roman numeral, because she was "test subject number five". Her own idea), she got to pick her characters real name too of course, but that's secret for now.
We worked out which class would fit her most. We both felt that a ten year old warrior or fighter would seem odd, so we went for a more mystical path. She's a seeker-pathfinder driven by curiosity about all knowledge, but particularly the force.
Her starting Morality choices were Curiosity and Fear (because, as she said, a ten year old kid fears a lot of things).
She didn't get any equipment as she will be found by the group, frozen in a stasis crate (yes, very firefly-esque).
She decided to go with mostly peaceful skills like Medicine, Xenology, Dicipline, Resilience and Charm (because kids can be charming, her words, not mine).

No special force powers, just Enhance; Basic and Force Leap 1.

She did get a special obligation.
"You're a child".
Basically what it does is this: she gets +2 black dice whenever she tries to do something that would be difficult for a child, but not an adult. Like, for example, firing a full-size rifle or driving a speeder.
But, on the other hand, anyone that tries to attack her gets +2 black dice to their roll because of her diminutive size and the fact that even stormtroopers might flinch at shooting a child.
Lastly, it also gives her 1 less in Brawn for strength checks.

This obligation lasts until her fourteenth birthday in-game. After that it goes away and is hopefully replaced with another obligation like normal

She was very happy with the character and is looking forward to her mysterious introduction in the next session.

1 hour ago, OddballE8 said:

She did get a special obligation.
"You're a child".
Basically what it does is this: she gets +2 black dice whenever she tries to do something that would be difficult for a child, but not an adult. Like, for example, firing a full-size rifle or driving a speeder.
But, on the other hand, anyone that tries to attack her gets +2 black dice to their roll because of her diminutive size and the fact that even stormtroopers might flinch at shooting a child.
Lastly, it also gives her 1 less in Brawn for strength checks.

This obligation lasts until her fourteenth birthday in-game. After that it goes away and is hopefully replaced with another obligation like normal

I think the idea of the mechanics being an obligation turned out quite well and looks like a good compromise.

One question: can this obligation be lowered before the 14th birthday? Like for example when she turns 12 it lowers to only 1 instead of 2 setback?

2 hours ago, ThreeAM said:

I think the idea of the mechanics being an obligation turned out quite well and looks like a good compromise.

One question: can this obligation be lowered before the 14th birthday? Like for example when she turns 12 it lowers to only 1 instead of 2 setback?

That is also an idea.

I'll have to keep that in mind and discuss it with the group when we've been playing a while with the obligation in play.

But it makes sense. Most 12 year olds are much larger than 10 year olds.

6 minutes ago, OddballE8 said:

That is also an idea.

I'll have to keep that in mind and discuss it with the group when we've been playing a while with the obligation in play.

But it makes sense. Most 12 year olds are much larger than 10 year olds.

One point ot make is that, given that this character is an F&D character, not an EotE character, there is no reason why this character should have any Obligation thereafter upon reaching maturity, since F&D characters use the Morality mechanic instead of the Obligation mechanic.

7 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

One point ot make is that, given that this character is an F&D character, not an EotE character, there is no reason why this character should have any Obligation thereafter upon reaching maturity, since F&D characters use the Morality mechanic instead of the Obligation mechanic.

True.
But I was under the impression that the morality mechanic supplemented obligation/duty, not replaced it.
A force-sensitive character in an AoR campaign would still have Duty as well, no? As long as they were part of the rebellion, I mean.

Really sounds great!

Thanks for the update, seems that kid (the RL girl) is a real smart and understanding one! I wish her and you most of Fun in all future SW-Sessions.

One Question (just for curiosity) how much is the Obligation worth? 5, 10 or 15 Points?

and yeah no problem in mixing Obligation, Duty and Morality. (Heck I run a campaing with all three mechanics, obligation due to the fact that the Characters are underground dwellers who had quite the trouble pre-game-timeline, Duty since they joined the alliance and do quite some errands for that, morality is the only part that is only for the forcies within the group, everything else everybody has.)

I didn't have the EotE book with me (brought the FaD one instead) so I wasn't sure about the obligation cost, but I put it at 15.
Seemed right to me, considering she probably won't have any other Obligations for years in-game.

And she's a really smart kid.
The entire family is.
Their Mom and Dad both work at a school I used to work at, the Mom is in special ed and the dad was a teacher but is now the ***. Principle (yes, his nametag did say exactly that for a year... he braved the ***-principle tag for a year and survived with his respect intact).
The oldest hobby is to learn things. When I was there to make the character for the youngest, she was in her room all day and about an hour before I was gonna leave, she comes out shining with joy, because she's taught herself sign-language all day and was eager to show it off to the family.
The middle one is clever as heck as well, but going through a lot of emotional stuff right now (as one would expect when turning 13).

It's been awesome playing with them so far, and I don't see that changing any time soon.

11 hours ago, OddballE8 said:

True.
But I was under the impression that the morality mechanic supplemented obligation/duty, not replaced it.
A force-sensitive character in an AoR campaign would still have Duty as well, no? As long as they were part of the rebellion, I mean.

It actually depends. The F&D core rules gives a few different options for combining the three systems. One of the options is that each character uses the native system appropriate for his/her character's career (be it an F&D, AoR, or EotE career), another option is for everyone to use the same system, and still another option is that you every character use more than one system, but only gain the "starting XP/Credits bonuses" from their native system.

12 hours ago, OddballE8 said:

But I was under the impression that the morality mechanic supplemented obligation/duty, not replaced it.

Technically no, but I'm not sure why it matters. It works for your situation and that's the only concern. Honestly, Obligation/Duty/Morality are the most disposable of all the game mechanics, you did the right thing by customizing it to your situation.

On 29/08/2017 at 7:57 PM, OddballE8 said:

So, character is now created.

Here's how I proceeded;
I sat down with the girl and we had a quick chat about the characters background (which I made up since it's part of my next session setup), and she was very happy and excited about that background.

(The basic background is that her parents were wealthy Imperial aristocrats and officers, and when it was discovered that she was force sensitive, she was promptly taken away and put into a secret facility where she was to be trained to become an inquisitor at an older age, or die if she failed the training. She was then kidnapped by pirates during a transport to a new facility and she was then frozen down to be sold to the highest bidder, which is where the group comes in as the crew hired to transport this "mystery box")

She got to pick her name (which became V, for the roman numeral, because she was "test subject number five". Her own idea), she got to pick her characters real name too of course, but that's secret for now.
We worked out which class would fit her most. We both felt that a ten year old warrior or fighter would seem odd, so we went for a more mystical path. She's a seeker-pathfinder driven by curiosity about all knowledge, but particularly the force.
Her starting Morality choices were Curiosity and Fear (because, as she said, a ten year old kid fears a lot of things).
She didn't get any equipment as she will be found by the group, frozen in a stasis crate (yes, very firefly-esque).
She decided to go with mostly peaceful skills like Medicine, Xenology, Dicipline, Resilience and Charm (because kids can be charming, her words, not mine).

No special force powers, just Enhance; Basic and Force Leap 1.

She did get a special obligation.
"You're a child".
Basically what it does is this: she gets +2 black dice whenever she tries to do something that would be difficult for a child, but not an adult. Like, for example, firing a full-size rifle or driving a speeder.
But, on the other hand, anyone that tries to attack her gets +2 black dice to their roll because of her diminutive size and the fact that even stormtroopers might flinch at shooting a child.
Lastly, it also gives her 1 less in Brawn for strength checks.

This obligation lasts until her fourteenth birthday in-game. After that it goes away and is hopefully replaced with another obligation like normal

She was very happy with the character and is looking forward to her mysterious introduction in the next session.

Nice to hear it's gone well!

I think I'll bookmark this idea for later use if anyone of my players (or me if I can ever get someone else to GM) wishes to do something similar. Though I'm thinking it might suit me better as a Talent, like Primitive, rather than an obligation. I also suspect I'd leave the brawn value alone and simply apply to the Talent to any checks that involve brawn as well (where appropriate).

Anyway, glad you got there. Always a delight to hear about someone new getting into roleplaying and sounds as if she had a decent level of input in the character creation anyway. Sounds like a great kid too! Hope she has a blast.

2 hours ago, SanguineAngel said:

Nice to hear it's gone well!

I think I'll bookmark this idea for later use if anyone of my players (or me if I can ever get someone else to GM) wishes to do something similar. Though I'm thinking it might suit me better as a Talent, like Primitive, rather than an obligation. I also suspect I'd leave the brawn value alone and simply apply to the Talent to any checks that involve brawn as well (where appropriate).

Anyway, glad you got there. Always a delight to hear about someone new getting into roleplaying and sounds as if she had a decent level of input in the character creation anyway. Sounds like a great kid too! Hope she has a blast.

The reason I made it an Obligation is because it gets removed when she grows up.

If you're doing a shorter campaign that doesn't span years, I suppose a Talent might be better suited

As a side note, I visited the school her parents work at today, and I accompanied her dad to pick her up from her school, and she was VERY adamant about playing as soon as possible
She was a bit upset that it won't be this weekend, but her middle sister is sick and I haven't completed the adventure yet. But she accepted that as long as we play next weekend

18 hours ago, OddballE8 said:

The reason I made it an Obligation is because it gets removed when she grows up.

If you're doing a shorter campaign that doesn't span years, I suppose a Talent might be better suited

As a side note, I visited the school her parents work at today, and I accompanied her dad to pick her up from her school, and she was VERY adamant about playing as soon as possible
She was a bit upset that it won't be this weekend, but her middle sister is sick and I haven't completed the adventure yet. But she accepted that as long as we play next weekend

Love that enthusiasm!

Just thinking about the Obligation, I had an idea about how it might be handled ... possibly, obviously it's just an idea but it you might dig it so thought I'd share.

Firstly, I should mentiaon that I absolutely love the Obligation mechanic. I think it's a wonderful way of giving player characters some individual direction, some more immediate motivation and clear personal goals.

For your player's case, I was thinking about how she might actively reduce that obligations score through play (that's why I initially veered towards a talent) and I'm thinking that perhaps pivotal coming of age moments might be a really good way to go about it and could you give both you and the player some good hooks with a wide array of themes.

1 hour ago, SanguineAngel said:

Love that enthusiasm!

Just thinking about the Obligation, I had an idea about how it might be handled ... possibly, obviously it's just an idea but it you might dig it so thought I'd share.

Firstly, I should mentiaon that I absolutely love the Obligation mechanic. I think it's a wonderful way of giving player characters some individual direction, some more immediate motivation and clear personal goals.

For your player's case, I was thinking about how she might actively reduce that obligations score through play (that's why I initially veered towards a talent) and I'm thinking that perhaps pivotal coming of age moments might be a really good way to go about it and could you give both you and the player some good hooks with a wide array of themes.

I like this. I am not as familiar with the morality system, but I was wondering if these "coming of age moments" could be used to justify the change of reduced obligation transforming into morality. For example the child is faced with a difficult choice and that decision begins to lead them down a path of what type of person they will become. (Think of Mace windu or deadpool's decision of whether or not to let the badguy live)

we went around this by having our 7-year old son pick up the group's NPC astromech droid as his first character. this is essentially a Chopper-like PC who generates tons of fun at the table.

Another option we though about was a wookie - this would not put a lot of pressure on the kid in complex social encounters.

I have also thought about the character being a human/other species child first, but figured it would be a bit tough for a first RPG experience. the whole growing up thing would be tough even for an experienced player, I think.

Here's what you do. When a Mommy PC and Daddy PC love each other...

I'm sorry. I couldn't resist. Yeah I like the idea of doing normal stats but just giving setbacks and low scores in skills.

Forgot to add one important point to my earlier post - letting a child have a droid PC proved to have one more very important perk.

Droids are immune to many threats that the other characters are exposed to (in addition to not having to breath, eat, etc.). For example, droids would not have to worry about attacks of most wild beasts, poisoning, etc. If you get shot, your fellow PCs can always patch you up; if you get caught, the worst thing the enemy can do to you is a restraining bolt and/or memory wipe - all things potentially reversible.

In my experience this DOES relieve the child from a lot of pressure, fear and stress in the game. I can still throw nastier things to the other older PCs, without being concerned that this experience would be too much for my son. ctually in most cases it turns out to be a lot of fun and the droid-kid often saves the day (importantly - without the situations being forced for the other players).

You still have to moderate your content, but as a GM (and a responsible parent) you have much more flexibility this way.

sorry if i am getting a bit off the topic. appreciate this is about creating a child PC, not creating a PC for a child. I thought it would still be of relevance given the background of the original request (and fact that most child PCs would most likely be created for younger players anyway).