1 minute ago, Sk3tch said:My only problem wanting a Christmas release so i can paint it (and get a load of games in) over the quiet period. I am new to it so not the fastest painter.
Well thats reasonable. Time is issue for all hobby miniature painters, your not alone there mate ;D
55 minutes ago, ninclouse2000 said:I got that impression from this thread. I saw twenty different “experts” state that this game would be cheaper because it wasn’t preprinted. FFG never made that statement, it was made by the experts that were putting down anyone who wanted painted minis as a reason why it’s a good thing they’re not painted. I’m fine with them being unpainted, I was just hoping they would be much, much cheaper.
Point to one post where anyone gave the impression that playing this game would be cheaper then X-wing because it's unpainted. You're frankly making that up.
What has been said is that individual model cost will be cheaper, and that it needs to remain cheaper. This is because this game requires substainally more models per standard size list then X-wing or Armada. Otherwise the price point would be so high as to dissuade the majority of players.
Case in point yourself. You're balking at the current prices. How much do you think putting a quality paint job on those models would increase cost? Consider that it's done by hand, requires assembly, and takes a substantial amount of time.
2 hours ago, ninclouse2000 said:I got that impression from this thread. I saw twenty different “experts” state that this game would be cheaper because it wasn’t preprinted. FFG never made that statement, it was made by the experts that were putting down anyone who wanted painted minis as a reason why it’s a good thing they’re not painted.
I see the problem, you added your own expectation. Yes, they would be a lot more expensive if they were prepainted.
However no expert made a price point comparison to any other game. Just, if they prepaint them then it will be outrageously expensive (or the paint job will be kinda crap).
But here, lets do some compairson.
For this I'll take Stormtroopers (IA,) Stormtroopers (Legion), Tie Fighter (XWing) and VSD (Armada) (I'm not doing Imp Squads for Armada because all of the squads aren't available in the starter box and you can't field a fleet of only squadrons).
All of them are the basic imperial, comes in the starter box, but available for additional army building as a separate expansion (with some different cards)
Stormtroopers (IA) - $19.95 MSRP, Unpainted, $6.65/Miniature (3 in the pack)
Tie Fighter (X-Wing) - $12.95 MSRP Painted $12.95/Minitaure
TIE/FO (X-Wing) - $14.95 MSRP Painted $14.95/Miniature
Victory Star Destroyer - $39.99 MSRP Painted $39.99/Minature
Stormtroopers (Legion) - MSRP $24.99 Unpainted $3.57/miniature (7 in the pack)
So....yes, in comparison on a unit basis this is much cheaper than any of the other games (Except for an ATST, That thing is 2.5x the cost of an IA AT-ST).
Keep in mind, you're usually going to be getting a lot more plastic in each box (usually) than you would for any of the other games.
One other thing, Warhammer minis run $4.00 - $10.00 per miniature for regular units. I mean like Space Marines, not vehicles. Legion is, by any measurement, cheaper than comparable games and other Star Wars Games in the FFG line. However the scale is larger and that's where you're getting tripped up.
Edited by Zrob31414 minutes ago, Zrob314 said:I see the problem, you added your own expectation. Yes, they would be a lot more expensive if they were prepainted.
However no expert made a price point comparison to any other game. Just, if they prepaint them then it will be outrageously expensive (or the paint job will be kinda crap).
But here, lets do some compairson.
For this I'll take Stormtroopers (IA,) Stormtroopers (Legion), Tie Fighter (XWing) and VSD (Armada) (I'm not doing Imp Squads for Armada because all of the squads aren't available in the starter box and you can't field a fleet of only squadrons).
All of them are the basic imperial, comes in the starter box, but available for additional army building as a separate expansion (with some different cards)
Stormtroopers (IA) - $19.95 MSRP, Unpainted, $6.65/Miniature (3 in the pack)
Tie Fighter (X-Wing) - $12.95 MSRP Painted $12.95/Minitaure
TIE/FO (X-Wing) - $14.95 MSRP Painted $14.95/Miniature
Victory Star Destroyer - $39.99 MSRP Painted $39.99/Minature
Stormtroopers (Legion) - MSRP $24.99 Unpainted $3.57/miniature (7 in the pack)
So....yes, in comparison on a unit basis this is much cheaper than any of the other games (Except for an ATST, That thing is 2.5x the cost of an IA AT-ST).
Keep in mind, you're usually going to be getting a lot more plastic in each box (usually) than you would for any of the other games.
One other thing, Warhammer minis run $4.00 - $10.00 per miniature for regular units. I mean like Space Marines, not vehicles. Legion is, by any measurement, cheaper than comparable games and other Star Wars Games in the FFG line. However the scale is larger and that's where you're getting tripped up.
Thanks for the explanation and for being nice at the same time. It’s mostly the cost of the AT ST that is startling me. The rebel and storm trooper packs aren’t unfairly priced. It Is what is. I can either choose to accept the prices and purchase this game or I can simply stick with armada and x wing instead. Luckily I have a few months to think on this and make a decision.
5 hours ago, Zrob314 said:Except for an ATST, That thing is 2.5x the cost of an IA AT-ST
And looks like 2.5x times better sculpt. IA sculpts even on pictures does not look crisp - smooth details, bend sabers...They look like figures for board game should look. Legion ones for now look like miniature game miniatures should look like - crisp sculpts, customisable assembly.
On 10/26/2017 at 8:41 AM, ninclouse2000 said:Thanks for the explanation and for being nice at the same time. It’s mostly the cost of the AT ST that is startling me. The rebel and storm trooper packs aren’t unfairly priced. It Is what is. I can either choose to accept the prices and purchase this game or I can simply stick with armada and x wing instead. Luckily I have a few months to think on this and make a decision.
So, I'm curious, what did you decide?
7 hours ago, Zrob314 said:So, I'm curious, what did you decide?
I got the at st and t47 from miniature market and they were each about $10 bucks cheaper on there so the price paid wasn’t too bad.
1 hour ago, ninclouse2000 said:I got the at st and t47 from miniature market and they were each about $10 bucks cheaper on there so the price paid wasn’t too bad.
And have you painted?
12 hours ago, Zrob314 said:And have you painted?
I actually went crazy with the painting. I’ve painted two full core sets, t47, atst, an extra rebel/stormies, speeders expansion and atrt expansion.
https://imgur.com/gallery/CAwxM
https://imgur.com/gallery/4loTXV2
Edited by ninclouse20006 minutes ago, ninclouse2000 said:I actually went crazy with the painting. I’ve painted two full core sets, t47, atst, an extra rebel/stormies, speeders expansion and atrt expansion.
What did you use to base? They look incredible
Just now, Lumberjack Nick said:What did you use to base? They look incredible
Some kind of Vallejo earth stuff and a few different Army painter flocks and fake grass. And some fake snow I got at Michaels for a few.
Thanks, I feel like I have much to learn still.
2 hours ago, ninclouse2000 said:I actually went crazy with the painting. I’ve painted two full core sets, t47, atst, an extra rebel/stormies, speeders expansion and atrt expansion.
Excellent start! I'm glad you challenged yourself and tried something new.
A couple questions:
1) Are you using washes?
2) Are you thinning your paints?
3) Do you have a lit magnification device?
6 hours ago, Zrob314 said:Excellent start! I'm glad you challenged yourself and tried something new.
A couple questions:
1) Are you using washes?
2) Are you thinning your paints?
3) Do you have a lit magnification device?
1 I’ve been using citadel washes like nuln oil and camoshade.
2 yes I’ve been adding a drop or two of water to the paint. Should I add more?
3 nope
3 hours ago, ninclouse2000 said:1 I’ve been using citadel washes like nuln oil and camoshade.
2 yes I’ve been adding a drop or two of water to the paint. Should I add more?
3 nope
Check this video
Get a magnifier, it leveled me up big time.
1 hour ago, Zrob314 said:Check this video
Get a magnifier, it leveled me up big time.
I ruined my brushes quickly. I need to figure out how to take care of them.
1 hour ago, ninclouse2000 said:I ruined my brushes quickly. I need to figure out how to take care of them.
Don't throw away the little caps.
If you have the caps store them bristles down. If you don't...well I lay them over a ledge next to my sink.
Never store them pointing up, you'll get gunk in the ferrule and that will frag your brushes quick
Never use hot water for rinsing or full cleaning. This can melt the glue in the ferrule. Always use cold or tepid.
Take some time to learn good cleaning with cheap-o brushes. You'll know when you're ready to move on to higher quality ones and by then you'll have developed (mostly) good habits
Don't paint directly out of the pot. Transfer to a pallet (wet pallet preferred, trust me) with an old brush and do your mixing with an old brush.
Rinse thoroughly and often, don't be afraid to fully clean a brush if you've been using it for more than an hour.
Edited by Zrob3144 hours ago, Zrob314 said:Don't throw away the little caps.
If you have the caps store them bristles down. If you don't...well I lay them over a ledge next to my sink.
Never store them pointing up, you'll get gunk in the ferrule and that will frag your brushes quick
Never use hot water for rinsing or full cleaning. This can melt the glue in the ferrule. Always use cold or tepid.
Take some time to learn good cleaning with cheap-o brushes. You'll know when you're ready to move on to higher quality ones and by then you'll have developed (mostly) good habits
Don't paint directly out of the pot. Transfer to a pallet (wet pallet preferred, trust me) with an old brush and do your mixing with an old brush.
Rinse thoroughly and often, don't be afraid to fully clean a brush if you've been using it for more than an hour.
Thanks for all of the info and for being so friendly in general. I truly appreciate your kindness.
Not exactly prepainting, but what I would love to see as an improvement to the Legion stuff is use of colored plastics for the process.
It would make things far better looking if the minis would come in colors that basically matched the normal paint jobs. Stormtroopers in white plastic, Vader in black, Rebels in a green or tan, Luke in a tan, and so on.
There are a bunch of people who aren't painting the minis in the first place and that would make the colors work to still add some aspects of it to the mix.
1 hour ago, Shadows of the Future said:Not exactly prepainting, but what I would love to see as an improvement to the Legion stuff is use of colored plastics for the process.
It would make things far better looking if the minis would come in colors that basically matched the normal paint jobs. Stormtroopers in white plastic, Vader in black, Rebels in a green or tan, Luke in a tan, and so on.
There are a bunch of people who aren't painting the minis in the first place and that would make the colors work to still add some aspects of it to the mix.
As this is a hobby game and meant to hit the "build it paint it" wargame crowd I don't think there is much interest on the part of the publisher to spend additional money to get the sculpts made in different colors.
Also if you're looking for that low of a bar for painting then you can always get some rattle cans and do paint jobs exactly like you're suggesting. (no judgement, it's your money and time, spend it how you want to)
Citadel has plenty of spray cans in different colors as does Army Painter, as does Rustoleum (since you're not that concerned with seeing details) Just make sure to check the cans and make sure they work on plastic.
9 minutes ago, Zrob314 said:As this is a hobby game and meant to hit the "build it paint it" wargame crowd I don't think there is much interest on the part of the publisher to spend additional money to get the sculpts made in different colors.
Also if you're looking for that low of a bar for painting then you can always get some rattle cans and do paint jobs exactly like you're suggesting. (no judgement, it's your money and time, spend it how you want to)
Citadel has plenty of spray cans in different colors as does Army Painter, as does Rustoleum (since you're not that concerned with seeing details) Just make sure to check the cans and make sure they work on plastic.
Was thinking of it since it seems that Games Workshop and several others are moving in the direction of color coding the minis to their faction at the least. Even smaller companies have been going that way with several things (Such as, I believe Guild Ball).
I've painted all of the ones I have so far, I'd just rather see the different base colors than the seas of grey plastic with some people who don't want to paint them. Most of which would call the cops if someone would try to prime their minis for them...
1 minute ago, Shadows of the Future said:I've painted all of the ones I have so far, I'd just rather see the different base colors than the seas of grey plastic with some people who don't want to paint them. Most of which would call the cops if someone would try to prime their minis for them...
Fair, I didn't realize you were speaking about other player's minis.
Just now, Zrob314 said:Fair, I didn't realize you were speaking about other player's minis.
It's just one of those things that came after seeing some people messing around with Shadespire last night when one of them opened a new force they'd gotten and realizing that it would also work rather well for Star Wars since most of the minis have at least 1 primary color to them, ridden vehicles having two that would be separate anyway...
Plus it would help with some of the people I've been trying to convince to get back into Star Wars gaming that have been out since the WotC organized play ended because it gives a baseline look that wouldn't stick out as much like a sore thumb as the grey army that seems rather prevalent at the moment.
The shaded minis seem to be for the board games from Games Workshop not the actual wargame and in that Games Workshop is conforming to the boardgame competition like Imperial Assault for example which has colored minis dependant on faction.
Edited by syrath3 hours ago, syrath said:The shaded minis seem to be for the board games from Games Workshop not the actual wargame and in that Games Workshop is conforming to the boardgame competition like Imperial Assault for example which has colored minis dependant on faction.
Several of their quick build models are in colored plastic...and, for something mind blowing, their intro paint sets with space marines from around when GorkaMorka was in production had them in the right blue for ultramarines, which was in the 90's with their early plastics.
Guildball does it with each team having a color.
I believe that it's starting to happen with a good chunk of the Warmachine/Hordes.
If I remember right, FFG did it when they had Dust...though that was a primer coat.
But Dust had all models of one faction in the same colour. having different models of a faction in different colours is probably not the most cost effective thing to do and having all units of the Empire white would look stupid on Vader so they are just plain plastic grey.