I regret my first post here is a complaint thread but... Yeah, I am a bit disappointed. I long thought that star wars needed Battle of Hoth in a box to sit next to Armada for really epic play (the entire gcw as a half-year campaign!). But... The same scale of fight is already possible in imperial assault using a square grid.

I'll keep an eye on this one but I really wanted to nerd out to imperial armor forces that won't be practical to make for this scale. And if this is thier one shot at Mass ground combat, it'll be a long while before ffg may make the game I was hoping this would be.

Of course I'd like to learn more, but this goes from a "must buy" to "let's see if the mechanics are more appealing than what we already have for imperial assault."

I think quite a few people were looking for the Battle of Hoth but they decided to go with Battle of Endor...which we can more or less do with IA. I was really looking forward to having Imperial Walkers storming forward to attack rebel tanks and encampments, but well we got this game and it is neat looking. I plan to keep an eye on it, though I'm not nearly as excited as I was when I first thought we would be able to play out any GCW battle from the films and Rebels.

It is really just IA translated to a 6x3 area isn't it?

1 minute ago, TallGiraffe said:

It is really just IA translated to a 6x3 area isn't it?

IA with models that have slightly more detail since they are 5mm bigger. Granted if they put out a number of astromechs I'll shut up and buy them like hot cakes but considering the setting and stuff they are going for I doubt they will. The game is neat I feel with how it looks, but really just not what I, and a number of other I imagine, were hoping for.

4 minutes ago, Animewarsdude said:

I think quite a few people were looking for the Battle of Hoth but they decided to go with Battle of Endor...which we can more or less do with IA. I was really looking forward to having Imperial Walkers storming forward to attack rebel tanks and encampments, but well we got this game and it is neat looking. I plan to keep an eye on it, though I'm not nearly as excited as I was when I first thought we would be able to play out any GCW battle from the films and Rebels.

That was my thought, too. This game had potential to really do something different, and obviously it still does.

But the core box contains no units that we couldn't have seen in IA. There's even a case to be made that speeder bikes could work in IA.

This game should have finally given us something large scale- walkers, Clone Wars, anything. Pretty disappointing core box, in my opinion- though the minis do look cool.

It certainly is pretty. But as we know, pretty does not necessarily mean fun or a good game. (I'm not saying you can't do it thought FFG, I'm just hesitant).

I wish I was gaming when Epic 40k was more of a thing. That is the kind of game I was looking for.

And I want aerial assaults dang it! I want Rogue squadron or Blue squadron models that are coming in for my support!

Was looking forward eventually to air support with xwings. Like, what would Hoth be like but with the xwings tasked to anti-armor duty instead of transport escort?

I figure this scale is to get the most out of heroes with troopers and get free of the # per card restrictions of IA. But like I said, this is already possible....

I was hoping for a 15-20mm scale game with stands of infantry supported by walkers, speeders, turrets and air support on a grand scale, making something like the Battle of Hoth achievable and playable.

What we are getting looks more to the scale of a major commando raid in the vein of the Battle of Scarif.

Not a bad thing, but a I said, not what I was hoping for.

The more I think about it, the more I think that the Battle of Hoth would be better presented as an asymmetrical board game than a pick-up play miniatures game.

1 minute ago, Manchu said:

The more I think about it, the more I think that the Battle of Hoth would be better presented as an asymmetrical board game than a pick-up play miniatures game.

Like an updated version of this?

QS =D

Uh that would be a trifle light, I think.

So the actual battle isn't super interesting. Basically, the Rebellion needs to run the clock against the Empire. So in fact, maybe a cooperative game like X-Com where each player is responsible for a certain aspect of slowing the Imperial attack until the transports are evacuated. One of those tense many ways to lose/only one path to victory type games.

1 hour ago, Manchu said:

The more I think about it, the more I think that the Battle of Hoth would be better presented as an asymmetrical board game than a pick-up play miniatures game.

See but I don't want just the battle of Hoth, I want the potential to have an epic battle like that on any planet in cannon.

I want the plains of naboo with AT-AT squadrons dropping off stormtrooper platoons. All supported by those assault tanks from rouge one. I want the galactic civil war.

I want a miniatures game that has battles as epic as what you see in the films. Even endor was a bigger battle than this looks like it could easily represent.

The Empire has some neat ground-based stuff. The Rebellion, not so much. The GCW wasn't a contest between equals. The Rebellion only offered battle where various circumstances evened the otherwise terrible odds, i.e., guerrilla warfare. So there would have been no Normandy landing or Kursk.

By contrast, the Clone Wars saw many massive battles. Maybe Disney will rehabilitate the prequels trilogy at some point and allow FFG to make a game primarily about vehicular combat. Hard to say, because the most iconic thing about the Clone Wars are the clones, rather than their tanks and walkers.

Do a little creative thinking. Rebellion has plenty of stuff that could be useful against overwhelming Imperial Armor.

For instance the big one: Infantry. Engineers could booby-trap obstacles (Lay down a trap card next to this terrain during setup to mark it in place. Activated when Engineers there trigger it). Vanguards could fire rockets at smaller armor units (like AT-STs). Rangers and speeders bypass armor by just getting around them. Infantry hiding in the woods, attacking tanks, is long a staple of many wargames. By contrast the Empire has to use stormtroopers on everything, and they aren't great at their jobs because they're disposable. Like TIE Fighters are in Armada.

Then there's Airpower. The standard would be the T-47s, which have their limits, but if the Rebellion brings in true X-Wings then you have a lot of good airpower the Empire has to deal with, probably with their own special troopers or bringing in hyper-specialized attack fighters to try clearing them. Or something like a hyper-specialized walker. In any case, the Rebels have more capable air units than the Empire does. For all the bluster AT-ATs have, at Scarif Rebel X-Wings were taking apart AT-ACTs pretty handedly.

Also let's not forget Characters. Luke single-handedly took down an AT-AT by himself. Rebels are always going to have more powerful named characters than the Empire because they are the good guys. Apart from power players like Vader, the Empire has to rely on their stronger armor.

That's part of the vision I had for this game when I heard it was announced. Instead it looks like grid-less Imperial Assault, where the biggest unit given to us will probably by the AT-ST, or the Juggernaut. I guess I'll have to be happy with an AT-ST patrol, because I'm not going to have my game of stacked Imperial Armor assets.

*sigh*

I agree, I wish/hope the big (any) vehicles will make an appearance in Legion. Since the Rebels have their mini walker it would be cool to see Laats and U-wings. Maybe but I am not really holding my breath here.

Don't give up on Hoth just yet!

I believe there will likely be an entire wave of Legion devoted to the Battle of Hoth. Now, I doubt that means playing through the entire battle all at once - unless you are organizing some kind of spectacle for GenCon - but the idea that AT-ATs and Snowspeeders will never appear in Legion is ... not a bet I'd be willing to take!

We'll see... but we're looking at 100$ AT-ATs in like CR-90 X-Wing Epic range (at best...), which have limitations on how many you could fit in an epic scenario. And Airpower... there's a reason air units are kind of abstracted, from what I can see, in 40K. Their flight distances and turnaround is too large for this kind of scale. I think the efforts of X-Wing fans to have ground battle games on their table was a great start. It's a pity what FFG took out of it is basing their game on IA rather than X-Wing/Armada....

Again, just disappointed.

Playing the entirety of Hoth on a single table is probably not a good fit for miniatures gaming period, regardless of scale. There is such a range of scale, from the efforts of individual heroes, to the clash of giant slow walkers against nimble snowspeeders; it cries out for abstraction. So I am pretty skeptical about judging any miniatures game by its ability to play out the complete span of a significant battle, especially one involving realistic scales of engagement of modern vehicles or fictional ones inspired by them.

It's stated that there will be levels of combat areas, so i think we will get Snowspeeders for sure at some point. But for AT-AT... it will be something like Epic in X-wing - huge model not for tournaments.

8 hours ago, Kentucky Fried Ewok said:

I was hoping for a 15-20mm scale game with stands of infantry supported by walkers, speeders, turrets and air support on a grand scale, making something like the Battle of Hoth achievable and playable.

What we are getting looks more to the scale of a major commando raid in the vein of the Battle of Scarif.

Not a bad thing, but a I said, not what I was hoping for.

My thoughts exactly.

I'm not too thrilled with the six rounds/most objective points wins format. I guess it's a concession for tournament play, but I much prefer my guys fighting your guys until one side's beaten.

Snowspeeders are all but guaranteed and the movement and speeder rules tool seems to work wonderfully with them. AT-ATs seem unrealistic at first, but they may be possible as "epic X-Wing" style expansions.

10 hours ago, Kentucky Fried Ewok said:

I was hoping for a 15-20mm scale game with stands of infantry supported by walkers, speeders, turrets and air support on a grand scale, making something like the Battle of Hoth achievable and playable.

What we are getting looks more to the scale of a major commando raid in the vein of the Battle of Scarif.

Not a bad thing, but a I said, not what I was hoping for.

I also would have liked a scale up of the fight to company or battalion level. But the Jedi are in the way. Heroes are difficult to make out in 15mm or 6mm and the bigger the scale of the fight, the more difficult for the designers to find a mechanism for Jedi Plot Armour (TM). Furthermore, there are no cool tanks for rebels in the movies so you'd have to rely on EU crap from computer games or Clone Wars (yikes).

4 hours ago, Rumar said:

I also would have liked a scale up of the fight to company or battalion level. But the Jedi are in the way. Heroes are difficult to make out in 15mm or 6mm and the bigger the scale of the fight, the more difficult for the designers to find a mechanism for Jedi Plot Armour (TM). Furthermore, there are no cool tanks for rebels in the movies so you'd have to rely on EU crap from computer games or Clone Wars (yikes).

Or give rebels the stuff seen in the show Rebels.

They use converted civilian stuff and left over military tech from the clone wars era.

Also like others have said rebels would have superior air support and that cannot be represented by models in a way that makes sense at the scale of Legion.

....interesting!....