6 minutes ago, VanorDM said:

Also I don't see why anyone would want to recreate Hoth anyway... It wasn't an actual battle or anything. It was the Rebel Alliance running away from a massively overwhelming force. The only thing they were trying to do was slow the Imperial troops down enough to get as much of their stuff off planet as possible.

The rebels never stood a chance and everyone knew it. It would be fun maybe once...

So it would simply have a 'hold the flag' type scenario for it i.e. victory conditions would be that the rebels kept imperial forces 12" or more away from their end of the table by the end of turn 6. Or you could just have a battle on a Hoth board without worrying about what happened in the film...

31 minutes ago, tuco74 said:

I don't see what would stop you recreating Hoth at this point. You might need to homebrew AT AT rules but otherwise it looks like everything you need is achievable with Legion.

That's pretty much what I'd have to do, anyway. It's just a shame there isn't a product I can enjoy with the rest of a fanbase and speculate about with for new releases. Nor would it be a thing I could play in tournaments, either. It would purely be for my own enjoyment and the enjoyment of any friends that might enjoy this kind of game.

26 minutes ago, VanorDM said:

Also I don't see why anyone would want to recreate Hoth anyway... It wasn't an actual battle or anything. It was the Rebel Alliance running away from a massively overwhelming force. The only thing they were trying to do was slow the Imperial troops down enough to get as much of their stuff off planet as possible.

The rebels never stood a chance and everyone knew it. It would be fun maybe once...

I'm a little disappointed people won't use their imaginations. Empire has armor, Rebels have more flexible infantry, flyers, better artillery... if you really want an example, start using axis vs allied tank battles out of World War II for inspiration (if indeed X-Wing is just a fantasy recreation of the Pacific air theatre). It's not entirely recreating the battle of Hoth (just like Legion isn't recreating Endor) but it covers the same scope. That scope being vehicles are a big part of your fighting force, infantry are support (like squadrons are to ships in X-Wing) and air power is a significant player as well.

The Battlefront games do this for the consoles and they don't seem to have a problem thinking up ways to stop Imperial armor. It's the same with Empire at War. Both games give the rebels some armor of their own so they can fight the Empire on more even terms.

I want a game that contains a battle that can decide the fate of an entire planet. These infantry vs infantry skirmishes feel like part of that battle, not that entire battle. I was hoping Legion can be what Armada is to X-Wing and allow us to come full circle and play out the Galactic Civil War as one massive multi-media campaign. That massive ground battle component is still missing, and Legion feels like a repetition of effort in that regard.

Not sure if its my years of historical gaming, but sci-fi/fantasy seems to dislike the idea of the asymmetrical battle a lot more.

For a scenario to be good, both sides just have to have a fair chance of winning. That doesn't mean they have to have the same objectives though.

In the case of Hoth, it would indeed be an overwhelming Imperial Force that leaves basically zero chance of the Rebels winning the fight. But the Rebels weren't trying to win the fight, so their objective would be to stall the Imperials long enough for the transports to get away.

It's really easy to make fun scenarios without them both having equal forces.

1 hour ago, tuco74 said:

Or you could just have a battle on a Hoth board without worrying about what happened in the film...

Which you can do now... But why would you recreate a battle in which one side is so massively numbered they have no chance of actually winning? If you want to play in the snow that's one thing. But people keep talking about recreating the battle of Hoth, but it wasn't really a battle, it was a route. The only reason the Rebels were able to put up as much resistance as they were was because the fleet came out of hyperspace too early.

1 hour ago, Norsehound said:

I'm a little disappointed people won't use their imaginations. Empire has armor, Rebels have more flexible infantry, flyers, better artillery...

Not on Hoth they didn't.

Quote

I want a game that contains a battle that can decide the fate of an entire planet.

But there was never a battle like that in all the SW canon, not while the Empire still existed. The Rebel Alliance never had a force large enough to take and hold a whole planet, they were limited to guerrilla warfare and never had enough ground troops to actually give the Empire a fight. I get this is a game some people want.. But I actually doubt enough people want it to make it a viable product.

Because Star Wars is about heroes and small units, not mass battles.

8 minutes ago, Extropia said:

Not sure if its my years of historical gaming, but sci-fi/fantasy seems to dislike the idea of the asymmetrical battle a lot more.

I don't mind a scenario like that... I'm just saying it wouldn't be fun to play it over and over again.

I guess my real point is that people keep pointing to the battle of Hoth as the scale of game they want, but IMO at least that scale doesn't really fit the Star Wars IP, since the only case of it wasn't even a battle really. The scale of IA or Legion just fits the theme better I think.

And you can and should have mismatched objects and even list sides... Being the underdog trying to hold out for 2-3 turns can be fun. But I don't think a battle like Hoth or even on the scale of hoth is that great of an idea.

Edit: I get that some people want a game that scale for SW, and I don't... But I do get a little tired of people claiming this game should be that scale or make it sound like FFG somehow let them down by not making it.

Yeah, that's fair. I agree entirely....it's ONE battle, there's so much more to the setting.

Just want to float this one out there again:

I would love to see FFG do Hoth as a fully cooperative board game along the lines of X-Com; a race against the clock to manage complex issues by working together. The outcome of the Battle of Hoth is a given. There's no tension in a straight-up fight between the Empire and the Rebellion. A game about evacuating Echo Base before the inevitable could be great.

@Extropia

I think you are right that there is an existing prejudice against asymmetry in fantasy/sci fi minis gaming, while asymmetry is a given in historicals. This may be changing a bit with certain randomizing mechanics in 40k 8e (or at least the Open War cards).

I started thinking about it today and realized that 34mm minis means 25mm is about 1.5m scale. So that 6'x3' play mat represents a battlefield 108m x 54m. That's almost a firefight in a phone booth for Star Wars weapons, especially the big ones.

I've decided to work up my own rules for something closer to 6-10mm scale. At 6mm the game space is now more than 500m across, which while still small, is at least a reasonable platoon frontage.

(Aside: i doesn't do to think too hard about scale in wargames.)

me and my buddy are going to adapt the Star Wars assault on hoth board game into a miniatures game that uses the full range of Ban-Dai 1-144 Star Wars kits.

On 30/08/2017 at 11:30 PM, Grisharon said:

I think I'll buy one AT-AT from Revell . I'll only use it for 'terrain'. Scale is 1:53.

Revell has a Snowspeeder,too (1:52).

Now, if FFG made a base and cards, you could use this kit and put it on said base.

3 hours ago, Hawkstrike said:

I started thinking about it today and realized that 34mm minis means 25mm is about 1.5m scale. So that 6'x3' play mat represents a battlefield 108m x 54m. That's almost a firefight in a phone booth for Star Wars weapons, especially the big ones.

I've decided to work up my own rules for something closer to 6-10mm scale. At 6mm the game space is now more than 500m across, which while still small, is at least a reasonable platoon frontage.

(Aside: i doesn't do to think too hard about scale in wargames.)

I never pay much attention to ground scale in wargames, it leads to madness.

5 hours ago, Hawkstrike said:

I started thinking about it today and realized that 34mm minis means 25mm is about 1.5m scale. So that 6'x3' play mat represents a battlefield 108m x 54m. That's almost a firefight in a phone booth for Star Wars weapons, especially the big ones.

I've decided to work up my own rules for something closer to 6-10mm scale. At 6mm the game space is now more than 500m across, which while still small, is at least a reasonable platoon frontage.

(Aside: i doesn't do to think too hard about scale in wargames.)

It never works that way. In fantasy enviroment You will come to conclussion that some units can run 15 meters in time required to reload trebuchet and in S-F setting sniper rifle and tank guns have range of 60 meters. I'm not even touching space combat..

1 hour ago, Bohun242 said:

It never works that way. In fantasy enviroment You will come to conclussion that some units can run 15 meters in time required to reload trebuchet and in S-F setting sniper rifle and tank guns have range of 60 meters. I'm not even touching space combat..

Miniature scale and ground scale are different things. If vehicles were in scale to their movement or shooting range, you would need a magnifying glass to find them and tweezers to move them.