Where is my Nebulon B2?

"Structurally reinforced and with extra shielding, the Nebulon-B2 frigate was much more durable than its predecessor. "

38 minutes ago, Eggzavier said:

Where is my Nebulon B2?

"Structurally reinforced and with extra shielding, the Nebulon-B2 frigate was much more durable than its predecessor. "

Here.

6 minutes ago, DiabloAzul said:

Here.

Me gusta.

Also, Osprey OP plz nerf.

LOL at how epic some people make this game sound.

Does some scum factions having fleets justify adding them to a galactic scale war? What the what? We're moving plastic toys around on a 6x3 table here folks. Heck, we have Reb vs Reb and Imp vs Imp fights all the time at tournaments. How relevant to the overall galactic war is rather meaningless when we are talking about tiny models and dice.

It's not hard to imagine the Imps or even the Rebels wanting to shut down some criminal faction that has been raiding supply lines, enslaving locals, or disrupting commerce in some other way. Sure, the hutt cartel isn't going to be attacking Coruscant, but they may be raiding a system for supplies, or defending control of their territory, trying to free captive gang members, or just trying to bloody someone's nose as an act of revenge (criminal overlords tend to hold grudges). If anything, the period during the OT would have likely spawned a great upheaval in criminal factions. Under strict Republic or Imperial control, criminal factions would be kept in check. During a galatic civil war though, the factions would be so busy fighting each other that criminal factions could easily rise to power.

Short of saying you can't play them in the Corellian Conflict (officially), there really isn't anything to hold them back from being in this game.

Again, I'm not a fan of added the scum faction to Armada. I don't want it to happen. But it's not outside the realm of possibility.

5 minutes ago, Eggzavier said:

Me gusta.

Also, Osprey OP plz nerf.

I don't know - it's a neat ability, but I'm not even sure a full-fledged extra Redirect token would be worth 5 points. Needs moar test0ring.

13 hours ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

My point is that while those things exist, setting them against the Empire is suicide, so why would any of those fleets (as they weren't combined, like the Rebel Fleet) start a WAR? That's my issue.

Okay, I see what you are saying. However, despite the name Armada, we are talking about battles, not wars.

The scum syndicates are not going to win all-out conventional* war against the Empire anymore than the Rebellion is; anymore than the Taliban or the Viet Cong are/were going to win a war against the United States (or the former against the Soviet Union, for that matter). But that doesn't mean that battles do not take place, nor that it is not interesting to model them in games.

No, Scum are not going to want to invest in warships in order to fight wars against the Empire. They're going to want warships to fight battles against one another, as well as fight off the cops (ie. the Empire) when these show up in insufficient numbers, in the outskirts of the Outer Rim, where they will have insufficient back up. Armada is perfectly fine for modeling those sorts of skirmishes.

*Conventional for the Star Wars universe, that is.

Edit: None of this is to suggest that I believe that FFG can or should create a Scum faction. My guess is that it's going to be an SSD, since I've already received reports of them playtesting such a thing. I'm raising a point against what I consider to be faulty reasoning. Obviously, it is within the realm of possibility that the faulty reasoning is mine, but if I believed that, then I wouldn't be making the argument.

16 minutes ago, Mikael Hasselstein said:

Okay, I see what you are saying. However, despite the name Armada, we are talking about battles, not wars.

The scum syndicates are not going to win all-out conventional* war against the Empire anymore than the Rebellion is; anymore than the Taliban or the Viet Cong are/were going to win a war against the United States (or the former against the Soviet Union, for that matter). But that doesn't mean that battles do not take place, nor that it is not interesting to model them in games.

No, Scum are not going to want to invest in warships in order to fight wars against the Empire. They're going to want warships to fight battles against one another, as well as fight off the cops (ie. the Empire) when these show up in insufficient numbers, in the outskirts of the Outer Rim, where they will have insufficient back up. Armada is perfectly fine for modeling those sorts of skirmishes.

*Conventional for the Star Wars universe, that is.

Edit: None of this is to suggest that I believe that FFG can or should create a Scum faction. My guess is that it's going to be an SSD, since I've already received reports of them playtesting such a thing. I'm raising a point against what I consider to be faulty reasoning. Obviously, it is within the realm of possibility that the faulty reasoning is mine, but if I believed that, then I wouldn't be making the argument.

My main concern with what you are saying is that, while it is valid:

1) Scum generally ran from the Empire, rather than fought it. Replacing lost vessels and more importantly cargo is tougher on them than the Empire, even if they did win the specific skirmish. Few scum actively sought out the Empire, and most actively tried avoiding conflict of any type because it risked losing their cargoes, which is what they were paid to deliver - not the vessels, nor where they interested in controlling space.
2) Scum v Scum is irrelevant to the Civil War. It's like mentioning the Greece v Turkey dogfights in the context of West-East tensions. Some relevance, but not enough.
3) Yes Armada is skirmishes, and the numbers are good for fair fights, but to me it doesn't sit well, like the History Channel in the US still calling itself the History Channel. I can't stand it*. Not the numbers per se, but that skirmishes with pirates at that level are considered important enough to mention when they are of no significance - when thematically all the 'skirmishes' between the Empire and the Rebels in the game all combine to form a narrative. Scum skirmishes don't have that cohesion - they'd be unrelated sideshows. Distractions. It may be faulty reasoning on my part, but my opinion is that while it's possible for scum to own warships, and probable that some do, and certain that skirmishes between legitimate governments and scum happen, it's not something actively sought out on the scum's part, has no bearing on the main 'theme' of Star Wars: Armada, makes no sense (to me) from the scum's point of view, and thus is totally irrelevant to the game.

*A rather non-sequitur-like comparison, but as I recently saw it on TV, it's on my mind.

On 8/20/2017 at 7:46 AM, Thraug said:

The only scale FFG got right is XWing. Armada models are way too big to allow for all of the pieces players want (SSD, Death Star, etc).

Same holds true for their new Legion. How are we going to play out the Hoth battle when 1 ATAT would be 3 feet long and high, and you need 5+ of them??!?? Grrrrrrrr

Both Armada and Legion would have been more .... epic with minis of 1/3 size of what they are, or preferably smaller.

Not that I necessarily disagree, but how would you have approached squadrons at that scale, or would you have just done away with them?

My guess is core set of sequel stuff.

But I hope for Profundity.

Okay, so I may have missed this elswhere but I would recommend keeping an eye out for new leaks from Lego. They recently announced that "something big" is coming for their SW line inSeptember 2nd. Something like 1500 pieces larger than anything else they make. Lego models get leaked way more often than ffg stuff. Kind of interesting that both companies would use the same wording for one of the big SW ite.s to come... Just a thought.

6 hours ago, benskywalker said:

Not that I necessarily disagree, but how would you have approached squadrons at that scale, or would you have just done away with them?

Well, squadrons are already abstracted. The same would be true if armada models were smaller no?

Interesting point on Legion. As well as AT-ATs needing to be huge, is air support effectively ruled out? A single TIE bomber would be massive as well.

4 hours ago, ISD Avenger said:

Well, squadrons are already abstracted. The same would be true if armada models were smaller no?

Interesting point on Legion. As well as AT-ATs needing to be huge, is air support effectively ruled out? A single TIE bomber would be massive as well.

If it were 1/3rd scale flotillas would be about the size of squadrons now, squadrons would need to be small enough to where it would seem they would be indistinguishable from one another. Again I would probably have preferred a reduced scale for Armada (doubly so for Legion) but I can't think of how squadrons would have been done in that case, and I don't think I'd personally want to see them eliminated so curious as to what the alternative would be. If Legion had been even close to X-wing scale I would have probably just asked FFG where they would like me to deposit my checks.

5 hours ago, ISD Avenger said:

Well, squadrons are already abstracted. The same would be true if armada models were smaller no?

Interesting point on Legion. As well as AT-ATs needing to be huge, is air support effectively ruled out? A single TIE bomber would be massive as well.

And will Legion have Snow Speeders? If so, how are they going to be represented on a 6x3 map when they travel .... 200+ kph? They would fly past the entire mat in 1 move, no?

55 minutes ago, Thraug said:

And will Legion have Snow Speeders? If so, how are they going to be represented on a 6x3 map when they travel .... 200+ kph? They would fly past the entire mat in 1 move, no?

I guess speeders would be akin to today's attack helicopters. They don't have to fly fast and can hover.

Size of the model could be an issue still.

FFG should have gone more akin to WH40k epic scale.

I could get behind "Scum" if they continue doing it in the vein of Hondo and (Boba and friends) / (Han dash and friends).

I.e., as small units that can be added to Imperial and Rebel fleets representing a collaboration.

I actually liked playing as a scum 'empire' in EaW (Zann), but only because I loved the Keldabe class.

Buzz droid tokens would be kinda fun though.

EaW Inspired Buzz Droids would be slightly on the OP side, as would any EaW Inspired Stats for Zann ships.... I dont mind picking the ships and maybe use SOME of the gameplay features, but the stats were just completely unbalanced and im one of the biggest fan of EaW

7 hours ago, ISD Avenger said:

Well, squadrons are already abstracted. The same would be true if armada models were smaller no?

Interesting point on Legion. As well as AT-ATs needing to be huge, is air support effectively ruled out? A single TIE bomber would be massive as well.

Really, they could do it (I, too, wish they'd made it smaller by at least half (if not Flames of War scale)), just "sliding scale" like Armada. Make the AT-ST's a tiny bit bigger than in IA, make the AT-ATs about 20" tall (or roughly the size of the toy AT-AT's you can buy at department stores, whichever is smaller). They'll still be sufficiently "epic".

As for speeders? You make them fast (12-18" movement), and you do something similar to how 40k worked it out. If it flies off the board it comes back on beginning of next turn, moving as if it were at the board edge.

Thousand times over it should not be that monstrosity dreadnaught for EP8.

Ill be really impressed if the FFG people held off the mouse and avoid making it.

13 minutes ago, Lobokai said:

Thousand times over it should not be that monstrosity dreadnaught for EP8.

Ill be really impressed if the FFG people held off the mouse and avoid making it.

I'm praying with you. It literally looks like someone flattened an Interdictor, and said "done!"

14 hours ago, Thraug said:

And will Legion have Snow Speeders? If so, how are they going to be represented on a 6x3 map when they travel .... 200+ kph? They would fly past the entire mat in 1 move, no?

you keep up logic like this and the guns in 40k that have an effective range of 8 inches will blow your mind(equiv distance of a cubical in real life). having said that i hope they don't add air units.

Ugh i just realized that if they do CIS in Legion eventually that I'm starting a new hobby(legion)

14 hours ago, Thraug said:

And will Legion have Snow Speeders? If so, how are they going to be represented on a 6x3 map when they travel .... 200+ kph? They would fly past the entire mat in 1 move, no?

Alex Davy already name dropped that they would have snow speeders and AT-STs in the game. The snow speeder could get by with having a speeder 1 or 2 ability akin to how the speeder bike is, making them zip around being hard to hit and probably a little hard to line a shot up for more than a turn or two.

3 hours ago, Battlefleet 01 Studios said:

I'm praying with you. It literally looks like someone flattened an Interdictor, and said "done!"

And added a few cannons and turbolasers, also extended the bridge, but yeah, pretty much a grav-less Int in terms of design, although, in the same way Imperials were big triangles, the first order seem to have a common tendency to do flattened gigantic pizza slices. Is the Mega Star Destroyer going to be like that too?

It would be the biggest nope of my life

sign me up for nope