Just now, Drasnighta said:

It has been a while since you referred to me as Rebel Scum.

::sigh:: I miss the old days, Mikael.

I know!

There are only so many hours in the day to refer to all the Rebels in my life as Scum. I need to ramp up my Scum-calling to a more industrial level so that everyone can get their due.

Probably going to be an SSD. I would personally prefer Clone Wars ships, but I will DEFINITELY take an SSD and not complain.

Worst case scenario for me is either Sequel Trilogy content or Scum.

No 3rd (Scum) faction please. There's not a single mention of sight of anything of the sort in any od the movies that could be used in Armada. Total jumping the cosmic shark path if they do.

So for clone wars ships which ships would be for what side. I am assuming the ships would be in sub-factions so they can be played with the existing ships. Would republic ships go to light side or dark side. In star ship battles republic ships were light side and separatist ships were dark side I'm not sure that works in Armada. I don't want a venator for light side. Thoughts????

Obviously if the clones wars ships are there own factions the question is mute.

I think FFG could release dual varients of ships in spearate expansion (due to different paint schemes).

For instance, two separate packs for a Venator, a Republic one and an Imperial one.

FFG could make oodles of money for cheap production.

5 hours ago, Mikael Hasselstein said:

I know!

There are only so many hours in the day to refer to all the Rebels in my life as Scum. I need to ramp up my Scum-calling to a more industrial level so that everyone can get their due.

That's what signatures are for, Mikael!

On topic...there's too many ideas to choose from. Sure, it could be the SSD. Sure, it could be a new faction. Sure, it could be a new "era."

...myself? I like the 10' diameter, inflatable Death Star idea. I'd totally fricken buy that thing!

6 hours ago, Mikael Hasselstein said:

I know!

There are only so many hours in the day to refer to all the Rebels in my life as Scum. I need to ramp up my Scum-calling to a more industrial level so that everyone can get their due.

ROFL! Mikael, you made me laugh so hard - and I'm at work! >:|

Good to see our ISB agents are still on their toes! Have you updated Imperial Blog thing - we've got GUNBOATS now! The Emperor's reach extends further yet!!!

Back on topic - I don't know guys, I've said this before but. I think that if something is requested enough...it'll eventually happen!

Look at the Interdictor/Liberty and Gunboat.

Remember when the Interdictor came out? We sort of got half a wave released with the Flotillas. (Some cluey forumites noticed the 'photochopped' appearance of the announcement article.) It was only in hindsight that we learned that the Interdictor was held back by it's appearance on Rebels.

Now I'm also wondering about the timing of the announcement of the Gunboat - the " Bring on the Alpha Strike " X-Wing article mentioned this tidbit: " The ship was often assigned to Imperial Navy specialist units that needed a starfighter they could outfit for multiple roles."

...maybe related to a certain Inferno Squad of a certain Special Forces unit...?

Anyhow, back to the point.

If the Nebulon B2 Frigate, Dreadnaught, Assault Frigate MKI etc. were campaigned for enough...they may well make an appearance...

Here's hoping anyhow! (And remember, the Gunboat Dream was based on Hope!)

24 inches is enough for a SSD model to fit the board for an epic play scenario, be sold on the shelves in a large box and dwarf the ISD even if not to scale.

8 hours ago, Grey Mage said:

Sorry, but I gotta say Im confused.

No one doubts the rebel alliance has access to dozens and dozens of warships, and is able to make a rough stand against the empire. And *that* is based, as noted by the 3rd faction detractors, as charity.

Exactly where do these ships come from? Planetary governments, economic guilds and merchant clans, and affluent gentry with their own personal flotillas. In a galaxy full of pirates, full or smugglers, and full of death star destroying extremists you dont think theres room for local system navies etc? That they wouldnt have a need?

I mean, would you rather have a small flight of fighters to protect your GR75s taking materials to market through hostile territory or would you prefer to have them comfortably backed up by something like the MC30, or 75? Could your head warship not also double as a base for those fighters, in orbit, improving response time against raiders if you live on the outer rim? Given that a system frequently has multiple inhabitable planets, is it cheaper to build and maintain half a dozen small base ships and their fighter compliments or have round the clock fighter jocks waiting to respond for each of your five planets and fourteen moons?

Gods, what if youre one of the many governments that rules over several systems under the parliamentary system? Now you have perhaps 40, or even 50 large space rocks filled with people paying taxes.....

Theres a distinct need for larger cartels and any real planet to have a warship or ten. If nothing else the story demands that there is, or else where would the rebels 'steal' all their ships?

My point is that while those things exist , setting them against the Empire is suicide, so why would any of those fleets (as they weren't combined, like the Rebel Fleet) start a WAR? That's my issue.

7 hours ago, Mikael Hasselstein said:

Okay, but just so we're clear, your reasoning is circular. To paraphrase: "Scum can't have capital ships, because my definition of Scum is: those who don't own capital ships."

Booster Terrik is, of course, a horrible example, since he had a big bright red formerly-Imperial Star Destroyer.

But, with that, I think we should just agree to disagree.

No, I'm saying there are two types of scum. Those who could afford warships but don't, and those who can, do, but would still be crushed by the Empire.

There is no scum faction that can go toe-to-to with the Empire and hope to survive. Except Zann.

Booster Terrik's star destroyer had a private frigate's worth of guns, and only 3 levels of the entire thing worked. The rest was in disrepair. He is a perfect example of how difficult it is to take care of an ISD (or other capital ship of similar size) without the support of tax-paying planets.

So, again, though some scum can afford fleets, almost by definition, no scum wants war, nor will most scum be able to survive it. So the inclusion of a scum faction in a GCW game, putting them on par with an established government and a rebel organization, including them in that narrative and expecting it to make sense, just doesn't. Including pirates only involved in raids in the battles of governments seems wrong.

And obviously you may disagree. I am at this point trying to ensure my points aren't muddled by barriers in conversation through text.

3 hours ago, Arowmund said:

...myself? I like the 10' diameter, inflatable Death Star idea. I'd totally fricken buy that thing!

But then all you get to do the whole game is use an imperious voice (with an accent, of course) to say "Lord Vader will handle the fleet. Target the base on (the planet)."

9 hours ago, Thraug said:

No 3rd (Scum) faction please. There's not a single mention of sight of anything of the sort in any od the movies that could be used in Armada. Total jumping the cosmic shark path if they do.

Well Legends had scum fleets with battleships (In Star Wars anything corvette size and up is a capital ship but it seems like most people are using capital ship and battleship interchangeably in this topic) and one of those scum battleship classes has already appeared in the FFG Star Wars RPG

Canon has a few scum fleets of corvettes and frigates along with a scum fleet led by a captured SSD so anyone claiming scum couldn't have capital ships doesn't have any facts to justify their claim IMO. (I personally think a scum SSD is a crazy idea but like it or not it is canon.)

Scum just doesn't make sense. Why on earth would one of these pirate people go to war with the Rebels or the Empire. They want to make money. Not to fight wars.

It makes sense for X-Wing to have them because X-Wing is dealing with star fighters, and interactions between scum and others in fighters is much more realistic becasue the fighters are more expendable.

Rather than a scum faction, I would rather see a "neutral or non-aligned" faction that included all the cool ships from the EU, not used by the Empire or the Rebels. Then simply let them be used as up to 30%of either your Imperial or Rebel fleet. They then become your dual faction ships people have been calling for since before wave 3.

You can also introduce "neutral or non-aligned"officers and commanders, available to either side. Allowing some of the more iconic EU characters that are not Rebels or Imperials, to appear in Armada.

After I get my SWM20 SSD...

SWM20 hype.

If we actually get it I might cry.

23 minutes ago, cynanbloodbane said:

You can also introduce "neutral or non-aligned"officers and commanders, available to either side.

These exist, and simply don't have the faction limitation, we had one in wave 6, Hondo

15 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

They Stole Them All .

Just like the X-Wings.

All Stolen. Down to the Plans. So the Imperials passed on the contract and decided to build more Raiders and Gladiators instead.

Lore Problem Solved .



Man, its probably a good thing I don't work for the LFL story group.

The Imperials actually stopped production and retrofitting of them in the Kuat Dry-docks because the ship was just way to easy to steal, and they started using ships that required more man power, but forced it to be harder to gain access and steal, such as the Victory and other Star Destroyers.

That said, Boba Fett WAS able to commandeer a Star Destroyer II out of the Kuat Drydocks completely solo to fight or ram something,(Its been to long since I read the arc its from) so its not like the Imperials exactly lived up to their own doctrine.

But along the outer rim Imperial Nebulon Bs still existed as escort ships for various patrol fleets.

Something big --> **** joke --> lancer confirmed

See it's ironic because the lancer is just a little prick

7 hours ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

My point is that while those things exist , setting them against the Empire is suicide, so why would any of those fleets (as they weren't combined, like the Rebel Fleet) start a WAR? That's my issue.

No, I'm saying there are two types of scum. Those who could afford warships but don't, and those who can, do, but would still be crushed by the Empire.

There is no scum faction that can go toe-to-to with the Empire and hope to survive. Except Zann.

I mean thats not really how it works. The Rebel Alliance had no real hope of survival, frankly. They were outnumbered ten to one even at the height of their power.

Same thing applies in real life history. Theres always people going 'no, this is one step to far' or 'if we ambush them theyll never get to report this in we just have to be good '

They also dont have to be the ones picking the fight. Imperials jump in, see Hutt vessels and go 'well, theres our pirates!'.

Not to mention the Empire is noted as not being willing to conquer certain parts of space- notably Hutt Space- because the war it would require was way beyond what they needed on their plates. Skirmishes happen, even during 'peacetime'.

Etc etc etc.

Quote

Scum just doesn't make sense. Why on earth would one of these pirate people go to war with the Rebels or the Empire. They want to make money. Not to fight wars.

It makes sense for X-Wing to have them because X-Wing is dealing with star fighters, and interactions between scum and others in fighters is much more realistic becasue the fighters are more expendable.

I mean, thats exactly why they would go to war with the Empire. The Empire, like all Empires, reserves the highest quality material for its own use. From arms to medicine hitting an imperial convoy is going to get you some absolutely primo ****.

It was only four Gozantis. You didnt even have to drop in your medium base to do it, just a couple corvettes and bunch of fighters.

Now youve got a whole darn campaign about the Empire hunting around your pirate fleet because that was the fifth time youd done something, got a bit to bold, and one escaped- so now theyre hunting you down. Personally, that sounds like *fun* to me.

2 hours ago, Battlefleet 01 Studios said:

Scum just doesn't make sense. Why on earth would one of these pirate people go to war with the Rebels or the Empire. They want to make money. Not to fight wars.

Admittedly, the point of most wars is to make money, but as it wouldn't be the scum who were doing so, I agree with you.

28 minutes ago, Zeoinx said:

That said, Boba Fett WAS able to commandeer a Star Destroyer II out of the Kuat Drydocks completely solo to fight or ram something,(Its been to long since I read the arc its from) so its not like the Imperials exactly lived up to their own doctrine.

Boba Fett piloted a newly completed, unmanned ISD-II out of the Kuati Yards while they were in the middle of a self-destruct sequence. He coincidentally broke the chain of explosives and saved about 80% of the Yards.

3 minutes ago, Grey Mage said:

I mean thats not really how it works. The Rebel Alliance had no real hope of survival, frankly. They were outnumbered ten to one even at the height of their power.

Same thing applies in real life history. Theres always people going 'no, this is one step to far' or 'if we ambush them theyll never get to report this in we just have to be good '

They also dont have to be the ones picking the fight. Imperials jump in, see Hutt vessels and go 'well, theres our pirates!'.

Not to mention the Empire is noted as not being willing to conquer certain parts of space- notably Hutt Space- because the war it would require was way beyond what they needed on their plates. Skirmishes happen, even during 'peacetime'.

Etc etc etc.

I agree that the Rebels had no real hope, but they had a GOAL. Their purpose was to fight, not do other business. Scum, on the other hand, weren't geared toward war, and thus fighting was not their purpose.

So while you everything you say is valid, I feel like you are overlooking purpose. The Rebellion was on par with most scum groups, and likely even less able to equip itself than some. But it existed to fight the Empire, whereas the scum didn't. They existed to rob unarmed civilians, sell spice, smuggle, etc.

And sure, it's likely that various skirmishes existed between the Empire and the Scum. But in a galaxy-wide war, such things are so irrelevant , such minor conflicts that they hardly bear mentioning. The Empire didn't go into Hutt Space because they had cut a deal with them - no disrupting Imperial Rule elsewhere, they get to keep their autonomy. They weren't scared of them.

So skirmishes happen, I totally agree. But are skirmishes really justification enough to involve a third party in the context of a galaxy-wide war for the fate of the galaxy? I, personally, think not. And that's my point.

I, for one, wouldnt mind the Hutt Cartel or Tyber Zann's fleet to show up in Armada, but if its Hutt, I want it to be true to the Hutts, including classic lore ships, like the Star Jewel Cruisers and Rihkxyrk Assault Fighters.

If its Zann, bring on the Starvipers, Skipray Blastboats, and Crusaders. Intercepter IV's and V's could be used by both Hutt and Zann without any real issue.

All 3 Factions could easily use the Republic Venator Cruiser, and we all know the "Merciless" would offer up some rather Unique gameplay as well with its unique Main Cannon and Main Ion Cannon.

That said, "Something big" better refer to the SSD. My Shelf demands its size!

And for those who say "But I dont want them!" Fine, so dont buy them! But there are people who want them, if not to play but as shelf displays!, and who knows, eventually you might come around and say "Boy, I wish I had a different set of ships to fly around" and BAM, a entirely new faction to explore and master! Also, Role Playing campaigns would benefit GREATLY beyond belief by adding more factions and various ships to play with.

IE : "Darth Vader orders you to the outer rim to explore a small pirate force who has been harassing Imperial Shipping Lanes"

Objectives : Fly in with a small fleet and escort your transports through the nearby asteroid field and remove the pirate threat.

Optional "Capture a Pirate Vessel"

Further along you could use that Pirate ship to sneak into the Pirate Faction Fleet, eventually finding ties to the Rebel Alliance!

Stuff like that would make campaign play just that much more engaging for people!

As far as Scum- I am not totally against a scum faction, but there are more than enough wanted ships for the Rebels and Empire that I can wait a good long while to see Scum enter the fray. I mean First give me:

Thrawn on Chimera

Raddus on MC75

Imperial Dreadnought Cruiser

Rebel Mk 1 Assault Frigate

Executor SSD

Braha'tok Gunship

Imperial Surveillance Ship

several waves of Clone Wars ships

several waves of Sequel era ships

and then I'll be ready for Scum... maybe. Maybe a few more legends ships first.

10 minutes ago, GrandAdmiralCrunch said:

As far as Scum- I am not totally against a scum faction, but there are more than enough wanted ships for the Rebels and Empire that I can wait a good long while to see Scum enter the fray. I mean First give me:

Thrawn on Chimera

Raddus on MC75

Imperial Dreadnought Cruiser

Rebel Mk 1 Assault Frigate

Executor SSD

Braha'tok Gunship

Imperial Surveillance Ship

several waves of Clone Wars ships

several waves of Sequel era ships

and then I'll be ready for Scum... maybe. Maybe a few more legends ships first.

I can honestly live without the Disney "Sequel" era ships in their entirely.

I didn't see a single ship in the new movie (s) that even remotely hit my "OMFG, I gotta Have it", and the "First Order" Star Destroyer did look pretty nice, but truth be told, between it and the classic looking Inverted Color Tie Fighters, it really didnt bring anything that exciting to the table. The T-70 X-Wing's wings to me look very flimsy, and if you wanna be honest, all it really is, is a Z-95 with a longer fuselage and wings that split and a droid slot.

At least with scum we would get entirely different ships and game-play mechanics.

Clone War Era ships Im all done for as well. especially if they work the Venator in properly.

37 minutes ago, Zeoinx said:

And for those who say "But I dont want them!" Fine, so dont buy them! But there are people who want them, if not to play but as shelf displays!, and who knows, eventually you might come around and say "Boy, I wish I had a different set of ships to fly around" and BAM, a entirely new faction to explore and master! Also, Role Playing campaigns would benefit GREATLY beyond belief by adding more factions and various ships to play with.

There's a serious issue with this advice and the way that FFG produces games. If you want to remain competitive (and even if you don't, if you don't want to limit your options), you are almost required to buy a minimum of one of everything. Let's say they come out with a Scum fleet, and let's say I'm not interested. Ok, cool, other toys for people to play with and more variety from my opponents. That's a good thing!

Until I find out that the new XL-1337 Advanced Torpedo Cannon only comes with the $50 Scum flagship, and it's just the card I need to make my Vic 1 swarm sing. Now I'm either forced to buy the ship I don't want just for an upgrade card, or I go on eBay and spend half as much as the whole box for a single card. That didn't hurt as bad for X-Wing, when it was $15 ships, but I refuse to spend $50 on something I don't want just for exclusive upgrades. Same reason I never bought a CR90 for X-Wing, same reason I'm firmly against a SSD being released for Armada.

2 hours ago, Zeoinx said:

The Imperials actually stopped production and retrofitting of them in the Kuat Dry-docks because the ship was just way to easy to steal, and they started using ships that required more man power, but forced it to be harder to gain access and steal, such as the Victory and other Star Destroyers.

That said, Boba Fett WAS able to commandeer a Star Destroyer II out of the Kuat Drydocks completely solo to fight or ram something,(Its been to long since I read the arc its from) so its not like the Imperials exactly lived up to their own doctrine.

But along the outer rim Imperial Nebulon Bs still existed as escort ships for various patrol fleets.

Someone did not get my joke or point...

9 hours ago, Admiral Theia said:

But then all you get to do the whole game is use an imperious voice (with an accent, of course) to say "Lord Vader will handle the fleet. Target the base on (the planet)."

Nonesense. The thing can target and fire on capital ships. It is shown doing so several times (well, the second one does anyway). Seriously though, I do realize such a thing would have no place in the game (other than a "score a successful torpedo impact from a squadron attack by round 6" victory condition perhaps?) . I'd still buy it.
Pure silliness, I know.
It won't happen, but it would be freaking awesome if the "BIG" thing coming is an Armada version of Heroforge, that would allow the direct order of semi-customized ships. (drools slightly at the thought)