3 minutes ago, Zetsubou said:

Now now, this is far from the case. If it weren't for this baseless accusation by the Phoenix, no meishodo wielders would have been anywhere near the Imperial City in the first place. Know what happens if you let us ponies do our thing in piece? We keep doing it far from the Emperor's chambers. Not saying it was the Phoenix who suggested studying it, but if y'all force the choice where the supposedly super dangerous magic is in the Emperor's house, you can hardly blame us for it.

Apart from the one with the giant ruby who participated in the Chrysanthemum Festival parade...

6 minutes ago, Isawa Tasatu said:

Come on Unicorn just own it.... that's what Phoenix always did! You are about to corrupt the entire imperial city. Well done!

I have no issues being the villian (sorry, Scorpions). You should have no issues accepting your responsabilities.

Let me paraphrase the Phoenix argument, to illuminate how delusional it is. I will try to do so in the most neutral terms possible to establish my case:

1. The Unicorn learn Meishodo from source in the Burning Sands.

2. Unicorn return to Rokugan with a strong practice of Meishodo, and remain peacefully until now, a full 200 years later.

3. One Phoenix goes void diving and, based upon a series of singular images, infers that the Unicorn will cause harm to the empire.

4. Based upon this, the Phoenix press the issue, calling for a so far stable but controversial practice in Meishodo to be banned.

5. Emperor declares Meishodo is all well and good, but requires it to be studied by the Seppun.

So now we are going to start experimenting on magic that has clear conditions for working risk-free (as far as anyone knows), and if something bad comes from this delving, it is somehow the Unicorn's fault when they didn't start messing around with a working formula? Okay.

Somewhere, deep within the Sahadowlands........

Fu Leng cackles with glee and twirls his moustache: "Alright Akuma.You ready to get this party started?"

Akuma does a little dance and fist pump: "Yessssssss"

Fu Leng: "Oh Kums, you so crazy"

Akuma: "Right back at ya Fu-ster. Let's do this."

The phoenix: "It's not my fault for breaking the vase, it's yours for putting it out where someone could break it."

9 minutes ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

Apart from the one with the giant ruby who participated in the Chrysanthemum Festival parade...

*shrugs* You know what on the street far from the Emperor isn't? In his actual palace. Regardless, we have no reason to believe that man remains in such close proximity, and nothing came of his presence at that time.

Just now, RandomJC said:

The phoenix: "It's not my fault for breaking the vase, it's yours for putting it out in the open where someone could break it."

My entire point far better stated in a tenth the word count XD

Just now, Zetsubou said:

My entire point far better stated in a tenth the word count XD

Glad I could help.

17 minutes ago, jcharpjr71 said:

Here is how I see it going down.

Shahai teaches the Seppun Guard about meishodo.

Phoenix use their influence with the Captain Ishikawa to get their collective hands on the staff of power.

Seppun/Phoenix attitude of "We are so smart and wise, lets take this thing apart and see how it works"

BOOM - Evil Jinn on the loose.

3 minutes ago, Ishi Tonu said:

Somewhere, deep within the Sahadowlands........

Fu Leng cackles with glee and twirls his moustache: "Alright Akuma.You ready to get this party started?"

Akuma does a little dance and dust pump: "Yessssssss"

Fu Leng: "Oh Kums, you so crazy"

Akuma: "Right back at ya Fu-ster. Let's do this."

Option 3:

Shahai charms an Imperial Prince, who after learn about how meishōdō works asks the simple question of "What could we do with the true name of the Dark Lord of the Shadowlands?"

Ooh! A new comparison to draw! "Because it is your car, you take the fault when I drive it off a cliff and kill my buddy in the passenger seat"

The story starts with our first named Ide character. He needed desperately to be in the previous Unicorn story. He seems like he had a pretty good grasp of the current political climate. I'm guessing the Ide are fairly overtasked right now considering they are facing not just this issue but also the Lion clan issue.

Apologies, I normally hate messing up someone else's words within a quote, but I can't find a way to do split quotes on this board.

7 minutes ago, Zetsubou said:

Let me paraphrase the Phoenix argument, to illuminate how delusional it is. I will try to do so in the most neutral terms possible to establish my case:

1. The Unicorn learn Meishodo from source in the Burning Sands.

2. Unicorn return to Rokugan with a strong practice of Meishodo, and remain peacefully until now, a full 200 years later.

3. The Phoenix start to identify problems with the kami in Rokugan. They spend time trying to identify and ameliorate the effects.

4. Despite their best efforts, a kami goes berserk at an important ceremony.

3. 5 One experienced and respected Phoenix goes void diving and, based upon a series of singular images, infers that the Unicorn will cause harm to the empire.

4. Based upon this, 4. Putting this together with their decades of suspicions, the Phoenix press the issue, calling for a so far stable but controversial practice in Meishodo to be banned.

5. 6. Emperor declares Meishodo is all well and good, but requires it to be studied by the Seppun.

So now we are going to start experimenting on magic that has clear conditions for working risk-free (as far as anyone knows), and if something bad comes from this delving, it is somehow the Unicorn's fault when they didn't start messing around with a working formula? Okay.

I believe that you are presenting this without taking into account what we as players know from the Phoenix story. I have added in a few steps to your suppositions to make things more clear. If you hadn't guessed, it's the words in Phoenix Orange.

1 hour ago, Ultimatecalibur said:

Option 3:

Shahai charms an Imperial Prince, who after learn about how meishōdō works asks the simple question of "What could we do with the true name of the Dark Lord of the Shadowlands?"

Please by all means, go for it. Might I suggest you enlist the Dragon for help. Ask for the one they call Kokujin.

It's FFG's story now so anything could happen. But, when we have three shugenja (Shahai, Yori, and Junzo) from the old5r lore who are known Shadowlands figures, and prominent ones, you can't blame an Oni for sharpening his claws.............you know, just in case.

4 minutes ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

Apologies, I normally hate messing up someone else's words within a quote, but I can't find a way to do split quotes on this board.

I believe that you are presenting this without taking into account what we as players know from the Phoenix story. I have added in a few steps to your suppositions to make things more clear. If you hadn't guessed, it's the words in Phoenix Orange.

Well, the one to blame is Onnotangu. If not for him, the kami would have never fell, Hantei wouldn't be Emperor, no Shinjo to explore beyond Rokugan, no corrupted maho,...

3 minutes ago, Ishi Tonu said:

Ask for the one they call Kokujin.

Togashi Kazue, you mean? At least she seems the New Kokujin to me.

2 minutes ago, Wintersong said:

Well, the one to blame is Onnotangu. If not for him, the kami would have never fell, Hantei wouldn't be Emperor, no Shinjo to explore beyond Rokugan, no corrupted maho

Onnotangu did try to destroy his children, though.

14 minutes ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

Apologies, I normally hate messing up someone else's words within a quote, but I can't find a way to do split quotes on this board.

I believe that you are presenting this without taking into account what we as players know from the Phoenix story. I have added in a few steps to your suppositions to make things more clear. If you hadn't guessed, it's the words in Phoenix Orange.

Without knowing when the Phoenix started experiencing problems with the kami, it's poor supposition to equate that to Meishodo or the Unicorn's return. We have no reason beyond supposition that the phoenix's inability to control the kami is tied to our magic. And if it really took the Phoenix 200 years to join these two acts together, then perhaps they are not the smartest clan in Rokugan, after all.

We continue this by taking vague images and suspicions to make matters worse. Because if at the end of the day, you're own paranoia of this magic is what drove it closer to the Empire's heart, not further away. If others who do not understand how it works cause problems that is not on Unicorn's head. It instead lies at the feet of those who thought they knew best and would meddle where they knew nothing. I would think that is something the Phoenix would know all too well.

Just now, Ide Yoshiya said:

Onnotangu did try to destroy his children, though.

Typical... children blaming the parent for their life choices...tsk tsk.

4 minutes ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

Apologies, I normally hate messing up someone else's words within a quote, but I can't find a way to do split quotes on this board.

I believe that you are presenting this without taking into account what we as players know from the Phoenix story. I have added in a few steps to your suppositions to make things more clear. If you hadn't guessed, it's the words in Phoenix Orange.

Haha no worries, but allow me to insert a bit more (although I'm not going to continue altering the big ol chain quote), cuz if we cherry pick the information we add, it sure does make it seem like the Phoenix are on to something. Then we remember: the Crab detail a Shadowlands army utilizing military formations, an unheard of thing. I'd like to know how Meishodo factors into that. Certainly we have no direct evidence that an organizing force from the shadowlands is affecting the Kami, but neither have we a strong, demonstrable connection between the practice of Meishodo and the kami becoming volatile. Furthermore, we have a cult-- the Perfect Land-- cropping up in Dragon and Phoenix lands (though the Phoenix have done their part in stunting its growth) with heretical religious views and unknown practices. Perhaps their practices near the Phoenix lands have caused these issues with the Kami? And how does the almost unnatural infertility of the Dragon play into this? Meishodo is just a bogeyman, distracting from other, more looming threats that are going currently unaddressed. If something terrible comes of it, we of the Unicorn have already made our argument that if others experiment with Meishodo, we are hardly to blame for the outcome.

Just now, RandomJC said:

Without knowing when the Phoenix started experiencing problems with the kami, it's poor supposition to equate that to Meishodo or the Unicorn's return. We have no reason beyond supposition that the phoenix's inability to control the kami is tied to our magic. And if it really took the Phoenix 200 years to join these two acts together, then perhaps they are not the smartest clan in Rokugan, after all.

We continue this by taking vague images and suspicions to make matters worse. Because if at the end of the day, you're own paranoia of this magic is what drove it closer to the Empire's heart, not further away. If others who do not understand how it works cause problems that is not on Unicorn's head It instead lies at the feet of those who thought they knew best and would meddle where they knew nothing. I would think that is something the Phoenix would know all too well.

Totally ignoring it was the Unicorn practice that brought it into the Empire at all.... and Phoenix the pacifists decided to give the Unicorn benefit of doubt for 200 years. Should have just burnt the practice out straight away.

1 minute ago, RandomJC said:

Without knowing when the Phoenix started experiencing problems with the kami, it's poor supposition to equate that to Meishodo or the Unicorn's return. We have no reason beyond supposition that the phoenix's inability to control the kami is tied to our magic. And if it really took the Phoenix 200 years to join these two acts together, then perhaps they are not the smartest clan in Rokugan, after all.

We continue this by taking vague images and suspicions to make matters worse. Because if at the end of the day, you're own paranoia of this magic is what drove it closer to the Empire's heart, not further away. If others who do not understand how it works cause problems that is not on Unicorn's head It instead lies at the feet of those who thought they knew best and would meddle where they knew nothing. I would think that is something the Phoenix would know all too well.

It just seems awful convenient to me that with all that is going on (see my other post regarding semi-spiritual matters of concern in and around the empire) that Phoenix have targeted the one issue that challenges their supremacy of magic using what amounts to circumstantial evidence at best. Oh and of course no matter how it panned out the Unicorn would be the worse for it.

1 minute ago, Isawa Tasatu said:

Totally ignoring it was the Unicorn practice that brought it into the Empire at all.... and Phoenix the pacifists decided to give the Unicorn benefit of doubt for 200 years. Should have just burnt the practice out straight away.

Then what boogey man would you pin you're inability to control the kami on? You speak as if you have knowledge, but everything you say is based in ignorance and fear.

42 minutes ago, Wintersong said:

I have no issues being the villian (sorry, Scorpions). You should have no issues accepting your responsabilities.

TBH I'd rather no one be the full "villains", though I'm still fine with being the main point of contention. At least for this first conflict it seems FFG are doing a decent job of making it not quite so cut and dried... at least with all the debate being had XD

Here's a question I've been wondering for a while. Do people really actually care bout Meishodo? As far as I recall, it's not even mechanically distinct from typical "kami magic". Why the big stink?

Just now, RandomJC said:

Then what boogey man would you pin you're inability to control the kami on? You speak as if you have knowledge, but everything you say is based in ignorance and fear.

Not based on ignorance and fear... the knowledge that we always know better. And so it shall prove to be once again

Just now, Isawa Tasatu said:

Not based on ignorance and fear... the knowledge that we always know better. And so it shall prove to be once again

Yes, by picking up another toy you know nothing about and claiming to being able to wield it. Like Maho.