Ankaur's upgrade card option seems almost pointless. While he is 20 points instead of 40, the way the card is created would make no sense to use him in most situations.

His upgrade causes wounds to his unit to bring trays to "another" waiqar infantry unit. This implies the unit he is in can't have trays brought back. So he would (assuming there is a Ardus in play) need to be in at least a 2x2 (26 points) of reanimates or 2x1 of Death Knights (24 points) to bring back archers and/or reanimates of other units. His unit would suffer wounds to bring these trays back. Death Knights seem silly to put him in as he'd kill one every time he does this, and can't bring them back, as I don't think their anti mortal wound would negate this as it isn't a mortal wound strike that does it. If he were to be in a 2x2, while he has reanimates that could recharge themselves, they are just sitting back and for 6 more points you can't even have the option of his great range attack if the unstable go your way, and he doesn't add more die to the attacks.

What do you guys do to use Ankaur? In writing this and "researching" it more, I have found one plausible option, but is it better is the question?

If you put him in a 2x2 of reanimates and they sit back and heal others. It’s 6 points more than just him and he can have the reanimates come back on the natural energy as the stable energy hurts them to bring back trays. This as long as you are getting good natural energy runes would equate to almost evening out. He would be a total of 46 points though (Ankaur’s upgrade plus the cost of a 2x2), he’d be able to bring back trays every round as long as he doesn’t get attacked and wouldn’t have to worry about healing any rounds, so EVERY round would be trays back instead of some, and if you add a Raven-Standard Banner (3 points) you can move the attack from 4 to 3 and do it every round 3, or you just rally at round 4 since the ability is white.

Thoughts? Is this worth the points?

I just hate the idea of not being able to use FOUR white die when the opportunity arises, and with the reanimate group you still tie up a lot of points. 46-49 depending on if you take the Banner for one earlier round of adding units. Against the quick attacks of the Daqan it may not be a bad idea.

I'm sorry for starting this anti-upgrade and ending it pro-upgrade, but what do you think? Is this viable? Is it better to just have Ankaur and heal yourself? How do you use the upgrade card? Have you been just allowing him to bring back his own units, or do you also interpret it as only bringing back OTHER units? Let me know!

He is super viable as an upgrade card. But his main focus is raising trays over damaging units. I put him in a 2x2 unit of reanimates with trumpets and blighted velum.

Running him solo I've found that he gets around on 1 or 2 wounds for most of the game is very fragile because of this. The 2x2 unit does its normal role of flank protection and counter charge so you haven't lost anything there. You might find you have a desire to hold his unit back to protect him but honestly by turn 5 or 6 if you lose this unit he has already done his job. Generally I'll buff one of my archer units once to gain the reroll for that unit then focus the rest of the game on the big unit of reanimates he'll invariably be flank and counter charge supporting.

As a 20 pt upgrade he's cheap enough to buy other heavy hitter units, I'm thinking of 3x2 carrion lancers or a tooled up Ardus.

23 minutes ago, Thornoo1 said:

He is super viable as an upgrade card. But his main focus is raising trays over damaging units. I put him in a 2x2 unit of reanimates with trumpets and blighted velum.

Running him solo I've found that he gets around on 1 or 2 wounds for most of the game is very fragile because of this. The 2x2 unit does its normal role of flank protection and counter charge so you haven't lost anything there. You might find you have a desire to hold his unit back to protect him but honestly by turn 5 or 6 if you lose this unit he has already done his job. Generally I'll buff one of my archer units once to gain the reroll for that unit then focus the rest of the game on the big unit of reanimates he'll invariably be flank and counter charge supporting.

As a 20 pt upgrade he's cheap enough to buy other heavy hitter units, I'm thinking of 3x2 carrion lancers or a tooled up Ardus.

Yeah, the 2x2 as I was typing was really the main option I found to use him as an Upgrade. My issue now becomes I have 10 trays of reanimates. So I can only have 6 in my big mob. I'd really need at least two more trays to be viable (FLCL or SCL as my 9th). Without looking at what the cost is etc. Do you think

Ankaur w/ 2x2

Ardus

3x2 Reanimates

2x1 archer

2x1 archer

2x1 Carrion (or 2 1x1 carrions)

Then whatever is left over in points goes to upgrades.

Would this be viable?

I've been running this list with some success. I loves me some War Crier. Use the simultaneous orders to get a blight then mortal wounds. I have often done a disengage shift backwards then kill Hawthorn with this combo.

I agree with my mates, Maro upgrade card on a 2x2 unit increasing the number of archers from 2x1 to 2x2 is really good pairing with a 2x2 worm unit and Ardus, I've have had some success with it.

A question into the round: is the lingering death upgrade a viable option for the unit with Maro in order to hold it somewhat longer alive.

Or is the ability to regenerate from the reanimates sufficient?

I guess it is usually sufficient, I don't use to loose more than 1 tray in a whole battle if the unit don't combat at the end.

15 hours ago, Thornoo1 said:

Reanimates x6 [35]
--Champion: War Crier [5]
--Heavy: Support Carrion Lancer [6]
--Heraldry: Blighted Vexillum Bearer [3]
--Music: Trumpets [2]
--Training: Simultaneous Orders [2]
----------Total Unit Cost: 53

Reanimates x4 [26]
--Champion: Ankaur Maro (I) [20]
--Heraldry: Blighted Vexillum Bearer [3]
--Music: Trumpets [2]
----------Total Unit Cost: 51

So you have two Unit Upgrade Expansions? You have two Blighted Vexillum Bearer's... Is this something you and the other person just agree is okay and you use a place holder?

15 hours ago, Thornoo1 said:

I've been running this list with some success. I loves me some War Crier. Use the simultaneous orders to get a blight then mortal wounds. I have often done a disengage shift backwards then kill Hawthorn with this combo.

Reanimates x6 [35]
--Champion: War Crier [5]
--Heavy: Support Carrion Lancer [6]
--Heraldry: Blighted Vexillum Bearer [3]
--Music: Trumpets [2]
--Training: Simultaneous Orders [2]
----------Total Unit Cost: 53

Reanimates x4 [26]
--Champion: Ankaur Maro (I) [20]
--Heraldry: Blighted Vexillum Bearer [3]
--Music: Trumpets [2]
----------Total Unit Cost: 51

The way it looks you have nothing to spend the blight on Mortal Wounds. Support Lancer, the archers, Ardus, Blighted Vexillum, you can throw a lot of blight out but there is nothing to mortal strike it. Were you thinking Front Line Carrion Lancer instead of the Support? This will allow you to Mortal Wound the blight. Unless you use the blight to get rid of a die. Otherwise looks like a good set up.

I'm guessing death caller, not war crier

I use him in a unit with Lingering Dead two turn my 2x1 archers into 2x2 so I don't need to take rank discipline on them and can take other units. Get more figures, don't have to buy a unit, savings!

Using him as a single figure I was always cautious with using him because I didn't want to stack wounds on him. If you want to keep him safe you have to use heartseeker, so that is more points. He can't attack and reanimate, whereas the block of reanimates he's in can march/attack while he is tossing more trays to your other units.

Sure he might be able to toss some white dice as a single figure, but the lack of Precision on him I found annoying.

21 hours ago, Thornoo1 said:

I loves me some War Crier.

Reanimates x6 [35]
--Champion: War Crier [5]
--Heavy: Support Carrion Lancer [6]
--Heraldry: Blighted Vexillum Bearer [3]
--Music: Trumpets [2]
--Training: Simultaneous Orders [2]
----------Total Unit Cost: 53

5 hours ago, TallTonyB said:

I'm guessing death caller, not war crier

He states he loves him some War Crier. I was also thinking that he may have meant Death Caller, but with the sentence above, I figured that wasn't an accident.

2 hours ago, Waywardpaladin said:

I use him in a unit with Lingering Dead two turn my 2x1 archers into 2x2 so I don't need to take rank discipline on them and can take other units. Get more figures, don't have to buy a unit, savings!

Using him as a single figure I was always cautious with using him because I didn't want to stack wounds on him. If you want to keep him safe you have to use heartseeker, so that is more points. He can't attack and reanimate, whereas the block of reanimates he's in can march/attack while he is tossing more trays to your other units.

Sure he might be able to toss some white dice as a single figure, but the lack of Precision on him I found annoying.

Really great insight, thanks! I'm starting to lean towards Ankaur in a 2x2 as a much better option. Don't get me wrong rolling 4 dice make up for not being brutal but it's such a luck based thing. Watching Ankaur be able to just keep bringing them back would be interesting though.

Quick question for others. Do you reanimate your reanimates after their attack or before the end of the round? I ask because there have been times I forgot to reanimate and my opponent (my roommate) would say too late if he already initiated his next unit.

Reanimation is at the end of the turn. The Necromancer I believe you regenerate as you resolve the Special Ability modifier.

1 hour ago, Curlycross said:

He states he loves him some War Crier. I was also thinking that he may have meant Death Caller, but with the sentence above, I figured that wasn't an accident.

Doh. Yeah I meant Death Caller. Mobile lists on the run...?

58 minutes ago, Thornoo1 said:

Doh. Yeah I meant Death Caller. Mobile lists on the run...?

haha I was wondering if it was that or Front Line Lancer. I like that list though. Looks like it could do really good.

9 hours ago, Curlycross said:

So you have two Unit Upgrade Expansions? You have two Blighted Vexillum Bearer's... Is this something you and the other person just agree is okay and you use a place holder?

This is kitchen table wargaming at its best.

I know a lot of new miniature wargammers have ported across from x wing where it's generally expected you have the cards. in our group it's ok. It won't be once the local scene moves to tournies.

11 hours ago, Curlycross said:

Really great insight, thanks! I'm starting to lean towards Ankaur in a 2x2 as a much better option. Don't get me wrong rolling 4 dice make up for not being brutal but it's such a luck based thing. Watching Ankaur be able to just keep bringing them back would be interesting though.

Is Violent Forces not taken very often? I made the switch from Regenerative Magic + Heartseeker to Violent Forces + Fortuna's Dice, and I'm really digging it. If you dial in the double hit modifier, and you roll at least 1 hit on your 2 white dice (assuming both stable runes are showing) you can use Fortuna's Dice to change your other die to the double hit, and kill an opposing Ankaur Maro in one attack. Granted, he's probably hiding behind other units, but I'm thinking the damage dealing Ankaur has some serious legs.

That said, I do need to try Ankaur as a unit upgrade. I just don't have enough Reanimates yet to have him support a second block of Reanimates. Instead, I have put Ardus in the block of Reanimates, and boy do they hit hard!