8 minutes ago, Mrk1984 said:

Can you update this to include any possible bumps then drop lol?

Does this include PTL, where he can boost and barrel roll?

I've mentioned this in another post, but I think the way to "fix" this is to add some text to genius (because this is really the problem here).

Make it so you can drop before you move (normal) , or after you move. But you must drop the bomb before any actions are taken if genius is equipped.

I could make the argument that it is OK to Advanced Sensor reposition then drop, but to advanced sensor, reposition (possibly twice) then move and drop is harsh. I think it is even worse then AdvSlam bombing(and there is possibly a nerf coming), as you don't need to worry about being able to drop it directly on a ship and isn't action dependent.

To include any possible bumps? If he bumps you, he has got you: no map required.

This does not include PTL. While that would add a bunch of extra potential bomb placements, especially at the rear flanks, that is the wrong EPT for Nym. VI allows him to do this when activating at PS 10, with all the board state information that comes with that. He doesn't need to guess where you will be, you're already there. And no, I'm not going to update this with PTL - have at it yourself if that's of interest to you!

Reveal bombs dropping when the ship activates is not a bad idea. It certainly would reduce the options in this setup by roughly a million billion percent.

1 hour ago, Scumwing Apologist said:

Yeah that at PS10. Seems fair. Plus it doesn't matter if he bumps. Plus it doesn't matter if he gets hit with his own bomb. Doesn't even matter if he lands on an asteroid/debris.

Oh holy ****!!! Didn't even think about that. So you are saying that a blind man can play super Nym?

Well, back to the drawing board...

I would never expect someone to add all the PTL after the work was done, or to even attempt it I wouldn't.

But this is an example of how obvious it is that the game has a different design/test team. The K-wing and Ghost were made without EPTs for a reason, they would be OP with some of those options (PS10 Miranda!, PS9 Hera!)

Like you said, it isn't just one thing that makes him so powerful but a combination of all the parts. My proposed change to genius hinders this build without having an impact on the way Genius works on other ships (that never used him).

I don't think Nym will have an impact on the meta like deadeye scouts did, but it's not a good thing.

2 hours ago, Scumwing Apologist said:

My biggest problem with Nym is that he's braindead . You can fly him like a complete and total moron and you don't get punished- no punishment for bumps, no punishment for hitting yourself with your own bombs, no punishment for running over/landing on debris/asteroids- it's ridiculous. Nym is the second most blatantly easy mode ship, next to the JM5K, which SURPRISE is his wingman of choice. You know how people used to complain about x7 Defenders getting their tokens regardless of sloppy flying? Yeah, huge surprise that Nym elicits so much hatred from the community- the devs just completely forgot previous lessons. Scum favoritism at its finest.

Except that you are an agi1 ships. I totally disagree with this, yes is terrible in short range, but he suffers a lot any ordnance carrier or multiple shoots against him. He had no protection, and the thing that you can fly it like a totally moron is totally wrong .

...unless you're actually play against someone who's letting you to fly as you wish. But then don't blame the ship: blame your opponent.

4 minutes ago, Cerve said:

Except that you are an agi1 ships. I totally disagree with this, yes is terrible in short range, but he suffers a lot any ordnance carrier or multiple shoots against him. He had no protection, and the thing that you can fly it like a totally moron is totally wrong .

I don't know. The millenium falcon has just 3 more hp. Jumpmaster has even less!

And you're not fighting him in a vacuum - a Dengar next to him, objectively one of the best ships for more than a year now, is hardly something to ignore

6 minutes ago, Cerve said:

Except that you are an agi1 ships. I totally disagree with this, yes is terrible in short range, but he suffers a lot any ordnance carrier or multiple shoots against him. He had no protection, and the thing that you can fly it like a totally moron is totally wrong .

...unless you're actually play against someone who's letting you to fly as you wish. But then don't blame the ship: blame your opponent.

My point is that it's far harder to stop a Nym from doing his thing than any other ship in the game......because he avoids so many of the downsides for sloppy flying. Not all of them, mind you, just most of them.

Easy mode ON.

2 minutes ago, Scumwing Apologist said:

My point is that it's far harder to stop a Nym from doing his thing than any other ship in the game......because he avoids so many of the downsides for sloppy flying. Not all of them, mind you, just most of them.

Easy mode ON.

He also doesn't stop anyone from flying well, he's just very forgiving with mistakes

16 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

I don't know. The millenium falcon has just 3 more hp. Jumpmaster has even less!

And you're not fighting him in a vacuum - a Dengar next to him, objectively one of the best ships for more than a year now, is hardly something to ignore

JM5K has 2 agi, which actually makes a much bigger difference than you may think. It also has access to other ways of keeping it alive (illicits, countermeasures)
Falcon has 3 more hp but it also has access to several ways to boost its survival. Non-rey pilots can just fly off in la-la-land and still get a shot just fine, the Scurrg is either not bombing to do this or has TLT, which counteracts the bomb mentality. Not to mention C3P0 or Finn+Rey or Lowhrick toting Jyn/Jan around.

Scurrg cant do anything to improve its defenses w/o sacrificing what makes him such a problem to begin with. And this exact mentality of "You can fly him blindly and win" is exactly why i havnt lost to him even once in well over 2dozen games against him. People send him down my throat and i 1shot him, or at worst need a potshot the following round to finish the job.
Scum also dont have any supporty ships to keep it alive better either. Closest would be Bodyguard, but you'd be bombing your bodyguard to do that.

13 minutes ago, Scumwing Apologist said:

My point is that it's far harder to stop a Nym from doing his thing than any other ship in the game......because he avoids so many of the downsides for sloppy flying. Not all of them, mind you, just most of them.

Easy mode ON.

Well in the other side, in that list you have none Accuracy Corrector nor CadBane. So basically you're throwin 4 dices at range 1 with no (or almost a focus on 2 of them, but probably none) modifications. We are uses to 4 red dices fully modified so..

I think that few months, and players will learn how to fight him.

28 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

I don't know. The millenium falcon has just 3 more hp. Jumpmaster has even less!

And you're not fighting him in a vacuum - a Dengar next to him, objectively one of the best ships for more than a year now, is hardly something to ignore

It's not about the raw health. Raw health behind no guaranteed defenses simply burns. the MF can be stacked with ye ole c3po + evades and Rey gets her Finn + re-roll crap. Not to mention they have a far easier time arc-dodging because PWTs are infinetly easier to land and large base boost covers a stupid distance

fighting Nym outside of a vacuum isn't really a problem, it's also part of the game (as is Nym trying to avoid bombing his buddies which don't share his bomb ignoring ability)

Now Dengar...yeah, Dengar is ******.

there's a reason you don't see Nym without him.

25 minutes ago, Scumwing Apologist said:

My point is that it's far harder to stop a Nym from doing his thing than any other ship in the game......because he avoids so many of the downsides for sloppy flying. Not all of them, mind you, just most of them.

Easy mode ON.

it's actually harder to avoid being shot at by a PWT, or Dash if you're flying lower PS.

8 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

fighting Nym outside of a vacuum isn't really a problem, it's also part of the game (as is Nym trying to avoid bombing his buddies which don't share his bomb ignoring ability)

Now Dengar...yeah, Dengar is ******.

there's a reason you don't see Nym without him.

it's actually harder to avoid being shot at by a PWT, or Dash if you're flying lower PS.

Dude. You don't have to do this.. They are better than you're giving credit.
http://meta-wing.com/pilots

I am normally not big on changes,

But i do think Genius should not work while ioned (maybe evan and bumped).

Not only from a game balance perspective, how does a droid do his work while ioned? he is all scrambled up in his circuits.

5 minutes ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

Dude. You don't have to do this.. They are better than you're giving credit.
http://meta-wing.com/pilots

who's they?

jm5ks and Dash? I give them plenty of credit

http://meta-wing.com/ship_combos?

still don't see no scum Nym without Dengar. Now rebel Nym pops up @10th (and 5th I think), but this thread ain't exactly about him is it?

2 hours ago, dotswarlock said:

Or bring a few ships with TLTs. 1 agility typically does not fare very well vs those and most TLT wielders have more than enough hull and shields to ward off a few bombs.

Oh yes. Two TLT aggressors are the squishiest option and they will still murder Nym. They probably survive long enough to take chunks off the rest of the other guy's list too.

Nym isn't without counters. Just... the counters aren't any fun to field!

QD counters him pretty dang hard and shes loads of fun to fly.

Thats one ship he DOESNT want to dive. She'll splat him with 2 4die attacks if he does

2 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

And he has access to advanced sensors. Only Punisher and Brobots had access to both bombs and systems before.

And B-wings, U-wings, and the Ghost with Sabine.

4 hours ago, AngryAlbatross said:

So what this tells me is I need to bring some Ion (Cannon or Turret) in every list I play...

Dace Bonearm is the hard counter!

5 hours ago, Incard said:

It's not just his pilot ability - that's cool on it's own.

It's not just Advanced Sensors - that's a great card that I think has a place as-is.

It's not just "Genius" - that card is self-limiting outside of this specific context.

It's not just Bomlett Generator - although: infinite bombs, really?

It's the confluence of all these game effects together that creates this ... unique game experience. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

No, it's pretty much just Bomblet Generator. The confluence of all these effects, even at PS 10, would be fine if it was limited to a few times a game.

Well... fine is a strong word in this context. But put it this way: it would be no more egregious than other pre wave 11 stuff like Miranda, Palp Aces, Dengar, Dash etc., and I'm not sure the build would even exist if the optimal load out was a handful of seismics or proton bombs.

The problem, of course, is that FFG aren't going to errata bomblet generator into what it ought to have been from the start (a regenerating bomb that has some kind of cost associated with the regenertion) any time soon. And I don't think they even want to. I have a sneaking suspicion that this wasn't"missed" by playtesting. This is exactly what they wanted to happen. :|

Double post.

These maps are super cool.

Whats the map look like for PS8 Imperial Bomber Boba?

23 minutes ago, MacchuWA said:

No, it's pretty much just Bomblet Generator.

Bomblett Generator may be the most egregious item in the set of responsible game effects, but I think that if one were to remove or adjust any single one of those factors, the whole would become much more easily digestible. It'd be the one I would change if I could only find that wand...

For those who want to compare the Scurrg's reveal-bomb options to a K-Wing's action bomb options (with Advanced SLAM):

7 hours ago, Incard said:

It's the confluence of all these game effects together that creates this ... unique game experience. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

Unique . That, my friend, is very true. Unique in its ability to A) nearly completely ignore bad flying B) Take as much agency away from the opponent as possible, esp. because of PS10 and C) Lump so much auto-damage into a single package as to make any ship with HP <4 be a complete and total liability.

I agree with you, none of the things you listed alone are game breaking- but lump them all together in Nym and WOW- you have the pinnacle of NPE OPness- the JM5K 2.0: Too good for the points.

How did you get those 2 at the very top facing the other way?

I can't see anyway to get them that far up

Edit - Never mind, pre boost right / left with a Tallon Roll

3 hours ago, MacchuWA said:

No, it's pretty much just Bomblet Generator. The confluence of all these effects, even at PS 10, would be fine if it was limited to a few times a game.

Well... fine is a strong word in this context. But put it this way: it would be no more egregious than other pre wave 11 stuff like Miranda, Palp Aces, Dengar, Dash etc., and I'm not sure the build would even exist if the optimal load out was a handful of seismics or proton bombs.

The problem, of course, is that FFG aren't going to errata bomblet generator into what it ought to have been from the start (a regenerating bomb that has some kind of cost associated with the regenertion) any time soon. And I don't think they even want to. I have a sneaking suspicion that this wasn't"missed" by playtesting. This is exactly what they wanted to happen. :|

Jumpmaster, Nym, and even to a lesser extent the Vaksai title all seem to be coming from a similar theme: "We're making a ship to do X, what would it be cool for it to be able to do?" and then letting it have its cake and eat it too.

That's what new; you're able to look at the ship and without any real effort at all, slap on almost all the optimal upgrades all at once. This isn't saying that such setups are always, and automatically broken - the Vaksai's third modification isn't broken insomuch as it is egregious , but it's indicative of a newer, 'screw it, let's see what happens' approach to combos and balancing.

It worries me.

3 hours ago, Scumwing Apologist said:

Unique . That, my friend, is very true. Unique in its ability to A) nearly completely ignore bad flying B) Take as much agency away from the opponent as possible, esp. because of PS10 and C) Lump so much auto-damage into a single package as to make any ship with HP <4 be a complete and total liability.

I agree with you, none of the things you listed alone are game breaking- but lump them all together in Nym and WOW- you have the pinnacle of NPE OPness- the JM5K 2.0: Too good for the points.

And then you add Dengar to the mix...