no political equivalent to bansai? seems to put slight balance in favour of political clans

12 hours ago, Daigotsu Steve said:

Anyone else feel like Seeker Initiate is sooooo much better than Keeper Initiate that it's almost funny?

I'll be playing keeper in Crab. Free sac targets sounds about right.

Edit: now that I think about it, i wonder if crab/scorp removal with keeper of the void would work.

29 minutes ago, JolOfNar said:

no political equivalent to bansai? seems to put slight balance in favour of political clans

I believe the card you are looking for is called Games at court. It's at least a 2 swing but often a 3.

9 minutes ago, Devin-the-Poet said:

I believe the card you are looking for is called Games at court. It's at least a 2 swing but often a 3.

i think i've totally missed that, what does it do?

3 minutes ago, JolOfNar said:

i think i've totally missed that, what does it do?

Thankyou Togashi Gao Shan. That is pretty cool, maybe not as directly awesome as Bansai but pretty useful.

13 minutes ago, Devin-the-Poet said:

I believe the card you are looking for is called Games at court. It's at least a 2 swing but often a 3.

If your phoenix it can be a 5-7 swing. Serene Warrior is perfectly balanced and in no way broken

Just now, JolOfNar said:

Thankyou Togashi Gao Shan. That is pretty cool, maybe not as directly awesome as Bansai but pretty useful.

In general, Banzai is a more reliable big swing.

However, there are definitely situations in which Court Games as big or bigger.

Just now, Togashi Gao Shan said:

In general, Banzai is a more reliable big swing.

However, there are definitely situations in which Court Games as big or bigger.

Bansai enables a political themed deck to break a province on the sly, this is probably more useful overall, but not quite as powerful for playing out of type, if you see what I mean.

1 hour ago, player2636234 said:

Seeker Initiate has the better ability, but it costs 2 for a 1/1/2. Keeper has equal stats, but can recur itself for free. I'm a fan of neither, but I would rather be playing keeper in my deck if it came down to it.

If you imagine paying 3 fate for seeker so you can play the ability twice, the choice is between not paying the 3 or paying 3 fate for two cards (admittedly two cards that are quasi-tutored). Seeker gets you cards, Keeper gets you fate, in a sense. In decks with lots of draw and less fate generation (Scorpion), the Keeper looks pretty good, but clans with less draw (Lion) might be willing to pay the fate to get the extra cards. I'm also leaning more towards maybe playing Keeper if I do pick a keeper role, I find myself fate-starved more than card-starved in most cases, and an extra free body to defend and snag some cheap rings seems fairly useful.

I think differences like this between Mil and Pol actions are intentional. Mil action should feel more direct and blunt, while Pol actions are more indirect and require finesse.

You're assuming that you can reliably trigger either. @Casanunda

4 minutes ago, Togashi Gao Shan said:

In general, Banzai is a more reliable big swing.

It also costs you an honour in most cases, while Court Games either gains you 1 or costs your opponent 1.

1 minute ago, player2636234 said:

You're assuming that you can reliably trigger either.

Which is another point in favour of the Keeper, tbh. With the Seeker, you have to play him and hope you get the ring, but the Keeper can just sit in a province and get played IF you win the ring. If you don't, no biggie, get rid of it at the end of the turn if you want.

I think it's undeniable that Seeker is the better role, so it makes sense that Keeper has the better character... but the reliability of Keeper Initiate is dubious. Though the idea of having 3 1/1s coming out every other turn for free seems strong.

We finally get the last remaining cards and it seems FFG answered at least one of my concerns.

Political Rival - I'm a bit mixed with him. I like the covert but his cost is high for that. I like the fact that he's a wall but attacking is far more favorable than defending. The best thing about him is that he's a conflict character so he'll see play for that reason alone.

Contingency Plan - It's not terrible but it really requires certain decks to really be useful. Most useful for the Scorpion if they want to ensure a better bid but can be used in either Phoenix/Crane if they really need that honor/card from another player. It might see more play from an increase in the availability of duel cards.

Favorable Ground - Movement abilities are rather solid, whether they are used to move people there or from a conflict. I've quite enjoyed it with or against covert characters.

Fertile Fields - I'm a big fan of the four strength, possibly repeatable action provinces. I find the manicured gardens to be a stronger card but they both have different elements so play them together!

Tranquility - I find it to be meh and more of particular hate card than any other in the game so far. The effect isn't terrible but you can find yourself with nothing to use it on. It has an influence value on it but you're typically going to spend that on Let Go or Tattooed Wanderer before this one.

Naïve Student/Bayushi Liar - I love these 1 cost efficient and effective characters. On top of that cost, they have the courtier keyword, which both clans can use, have good, respective glory for their clan (particularly the liar), and they cantrip. Even the stats, despite not being able to enter military conflicts, are decent.

Meddling Mediator - She adds another courtier to the Phoenix and taking fate from the opponent is pretty powerful. You won't be able to very often but it at least forces them to spend their seven for that turn. The ability to take honor is the more likely effect of the ability but that quality greatly varies depending on what clan you are up against.

Blackmail Artist - He's ok but he might be pushed aside because of all the other one and two cost scorpion characters. He does give you the take an honor effect of the air ring so he'll always have some use for the potential dishonor archetype.

Seeker/Keeper Initiate - Not the biggest fan of these but I do like the Keeper's ability to be free with an honor on it over the Seeker's. The main reason is that you have to spend that fate on a low stat character and I'd much rather spend it on far better cards in any of the clans'. They might see some use once we get monk support. He's hoping for a monk stronghold in the future.

Vanguard Warrior - He's great and another pick up for the Crab, because they needed it? Going to be very annoying to see this guy keep around either Kisada or Shuichi.

7 hours ago, I Fight Dragons said:

Both new Phoenix cards help them a lot and allow them to run For Shame way more consistently. I'm glad they are both Courtiers as Phoenix already have plenty of Shuggies.

The number of Phoenix Shugenja is fine. The distribution is off, IMO. It does not mimic the clans that have two 1 drop characters that have the 'primary' traits. Example: Lion with Steadfast Samurai and Matsu Berzerker or Unicorn with Utaku Infantry and Moto Youth. Granted, some clans face the same issue, like Crane and Scorpion. But these clans too will have trait issues with their cheapest characters.

I'm already thinking about Otomo Courtier vs. Asahina Artisan for this reason (among other, secondary reasons).

32 minutes ago, Kubernes said:

Political Rival - I'm a bit mixed with him. I like the covert but his cost is high for that. I like the fact that he's a wall but attacking is far more favorable than defending. The best thing about him is that he's a conflict character so he'll see play for that reason alone.

Naïve Student/Bayushi Liar - I love these 1 cost efficient and effective characters. On top of that cost, they have the courtier keyword, which both clans can use, have good, respective glory for their clan (particularly the liar), and they cantrip. Even the stats, despite not being able to enter military conflicts, are decent.

Meddling Mediator - She adds another courtier to the Phoenix and taking fate from the opponent is pretty powerful. You won't be able to very often but it at least forces them to spend their seven for that turn. The ability to take honor is the more likely effect of the ability but that quality greatly varies depending on what clan you are up against.

Mediator will either net 1 Honour or 1 Fate a turn, or the opponent will spend his Fate earlier than he/she wants to. If the opponent chooses the latter, then it helps the Phoenix player better able to compute 'battle math' for only 0 Fate Events/Attachments.

I feel that Political Rival doesn't add anything necessary to the Crane. They will already have a Political edge over their opponent, more often than not. Will have to be play tested.

I wonder about the design between Naive Student/Bayushi Liar - Essentially, Naive Student is -1 Political Skill, +2 Glory and the "Scholar" trait vs. Bayushi Liar's + 1 Political Skill. Perhaps that trade off is going to be worth it down the line...

4 minutes ago, Anemura said:

I wonder about the design between Naive Student/Bayushi Liar - Essentially, Naive Student is -1 Political Skill, +2 Glory and the "Scholar" trait vs. Bayushi Liar's + 1 Political Skill. Perhaps that trade off is going to be worth it down the line...

Glory is valuable in Phoenix. It is, to some extent, counter productive in Scorpion. This is a good False Edict target. So 1 skill == 2 glory? QED.

17 hours ago, Antifinity said:

Well the biggest use I can think of would be in close duels, since you can boost your value above 5, it might be the only way to win a vital matchup, and it gives you some reassurance if you want to bid a riskier value. There are also some cards that care about how your honor dial relates to the enemy's, but I don't remember if those check the physical dial, or the value.

Don't forget you can also use it to reduce your number. If you challenge them to a duel they have to wager a minimum of 1 honor. If you're challenging them to a lot of duels they may start playing 1 against you to lose on purpose and keep you from taking their last precious honor. You can play 1 as well and use the card to drop yourself to 0 and force them to pay you 1 honor and lose the game.

31 minutes ago, Anemura said:

Mediator will either net 1 Honour or 1 Fate a turn, or the opponent will spend his Fate earlier than he/she wants to. If the opponent chooses the latter, then it helps the Phoenix player better able to compute 'battle math' for only 0 Fate Events/Attachments.

I feel that Political Rival doesn't add anything necessary to the Crane. They will already have a Political edge over their opponent, more often than not. Will have to be play tested.

I wonder about the design between Naive Student/Bayushi Liar - Essentially, Naive Student is -1 Political Skill, +2 Glory and the "Scholar" trait vs. Bayushi Liar's + 1 Political Skill. Perhaps that trade off is going to be worth it down the line...

With the Mediator, it can be a bit tougher to get that fate (the usual resource you want to steal) when the Phoenix player is has that first player token. If there wasn't so many 0 cost events, I'd say the effect would be even better, but there's just so many good ones.

I think the opposite just because he's a conflict character or his covert keyword. More emphasis on the conflict character aspect though. Because he can be splashed, he might be more useful in other clans though.

The 0 glory on the Liar is a better number for the clan, with a number of those dishonor effects it has like the Forged Edict or Calling in Favors. The Student also performs well with that higher number, mainly because of its clan too. I'd put them on roughly equal footing just because of that, with the advantage going to whichever clan will have more synergetic cards for either one.

14 hours ago, Kubernes said:

Fertile Fields - I'm a big fan of the four strength, possibly repeatable action provinces. I find the manicured gardens to be a stronger card but they both have different elements so play them together!

Fertile Fields and Manicured Gardens are both Air.

1 hour ago, shineyorkboy said:

Fertile Fields and Manicured Gardens are both Air.

Play a seeker of air role and you're fine!

2 hours ago, Kubernes said:

Play a seeker of air role and you're fine!*

* If your clan has that specific role.

Just now, Suzume Tomonori said:

* If your clan has that specific role.

That's true after a few weeks. For right now there's no limit though, so have fun with whatever role you want.

i suspect we will have more formats that will also not have the story line role requirement.

Here's hoping Scorpion get air.