So with 4th Edition around the corner and some other games which had similar mechanics I was wondering if TI4 will have adapted some of those new system. One in particular is the dice combat system from Star Wars Rebellion.

Well we all know TI3 uses the Axis and Allies dice system only with a D10 instead of a D6. Still combat is a little grindy. With Star Wars Rebellion they have a different system involving a D6 but does a similar function by making two different health types (colors). The dice has 3 symbols, a hit symbol, a direct hit symbol and a special (crossed lightsaber). The special symbol is used to draw cards or play from a tactics deck. While hits can only do damage on units with the same health type (color), direct hits can be put on any unit.

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2016/1/20/prepare-for-ground-assault/

As an example of how this system could be adapted I came up with I a house rule for TI3 using Star Wars Armada dice system as an alternative here is the thread as an example.

So do you think TI4 will keep the old dice combat system or will it use something similar to Star Wars Rebellion?

On the published images its looks like 8 D10 ...

And the ship values are similiar to TI 3, also the Action Phase

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1828586/text-news-post

As far I see no combat changes

I was thinking the same thing. With the same combat values, and the difficulty in making custom dice to do the same thing, I doubt we'll see changes. But I'm probably blind and can't actually see any D10's in that image?

Also, given that Race Card image, is the Transfer Action a thing of the past?

17 minutes ago, Network57 said:

I was thinking the same thing. With the same combat values, and the difficulty in making custom dice to do the same thing, I doubt we'll see changes. But I'm probably blind and can't actually see any D10's in that image?

The dice are below the Strategy Cards, straight up from where the red and yellow plastic pieces meet.

16 minutes ago, Archangelion said:

The dice are below the Strategy Cards, straight up from where the red and yellow plastic pieces meet.

And in one of the images, if you blow it up just right, you can make out numbers, not custom symbols.

Gotta say, I was surprised FFG didn't add some form of custom dice combat mechanic, they seem to be rather fond of them.

Good. While everyone has a few dozen house rules for this game, I've seen very few that attempt to fundamentally change how combat works. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

It seems to be exactly the same as previous. I wouldnt mind if they had streamlined it somehow, custom dice or not it would have been great if players built a dicepool and rolled off ONCE to solve a battle. But I do enjoy the old system too and sticking with it works for me!

But about those transfer actions...Gone right?

5 minutes ago, Soulless said:

It seems to be exactly the same as previous. I wouldnt mind if they had streamlined it somehow, custom dice or not it would have been great if players built a dicepool and rolled off ONCE to solve a battle. But I do enjoy the old system too and sticking with it works for me!

But about those transfer actions...Gone right?

Yeah, I noticed that too, and really, good riddance. What much did they do for you beyond a normal Tactical move/build, except give your enemy PDS two targets to fire at?

4 minutes ago, Network57 said:

Yeah, I noticed that too, and really, good riddance. What much did they do for you beyond a normal Tactical move/build, except give your enemy PDS two targets to fire at?

Yeah I guess they had their place but Im not sad to see them gone, from my experience they where VERY situational.

42 minutes ago, Network57 said:

Yeah, I noticed that too, and really, good riddance. What much did they do for you beyond a normal Tactical move/build, except give your enemy PDS two targets to fire at?

Actually, I played with a guy that used transfer actions extensively, and they did amazing things for him. Could never quite figure out what he was doing to get them up but each time he used on it had a significant impact on the state of the game.

Yeah, I use transfer actions all the time. I've even played with some house rules (where they are called Simultaneous Actions) from time to time that expand them further (mostly allowing them to take place between non-adjacent systmes). At high-level play you can do some pretty dope things with Transfer Actions. I hope they don't remove them from the game without allowing a functionally equivalent substitute.

Transfer actions were clunky and felt sort of like they were added on at the last minute, but they existed because they needed to. There needs to be some way to rearrange your forces in a cluster of neighboring hexes without having to stretch it out over multiple rounds, and that's the one thing the tactical action could not handle properly.

So I'm with Mike -- if they figured out a better way to do that, I'm completely on board. If not, I'll be amazed and I suppose will have to house rule them back in.

Yeah, it also looks like the same activation system as well so no heroes for activations.

The thing I didn't care for about the D10 is how grindy combat gets, rolled dice and highest is a 6. Roll dice and got one 9. Well I guess I could house rule the same thing I did for TI3 using Armada dice.

So anything else from Rebellion that might make it?

After reading the rule book, it looks like all the changes are more or less covered in the preview article. Everything else that is different is just details in various wording on cards and such.

2 hours ago, Forgottenlore said:

After reading the rule book, it looks like all the changes are more or less covered in the preview article. Everything else that is different is just details in various wording on cards and such.

Yeah, and funny hting is that there are no heroes . Odd which was a module that was included in the 3rd edition without expansions. I wonder if there is a plan to merge all the characters (heroes, mercenaries, council) into one set of tokens.

1 hour ago, Marinealver said:

there are no heroes . Odd which was a module that was included in the 3rd edition without expansions.

Was it? I thought I remember the characters being added in the first expansion.

Just now, Forgottenlore said:

Was it? I thought I remember the characters being added in the first expansion.

They came in as a module with the 3rd edition. I think they may have been an expansion in 2nd edition much like distant suns. The 1st expansion had shock troops mines, and added a new way for fighters and bombardment to deal with distant sun markers (probing and razing), as well as alternative stages.

The 3rd expansion added mercenaries (and a new production stage) and the council (as well as a new assembly stage).

Yeah, Leaders and Shock Troops were in the 2nd edition Hope's End expansion, but they were core material in 3rd edition. I agree, there will probably be some kind of expansion called "Heroes of the Imperium" or something, that deals with specific characters. Though I do feel that leaders and mercenaries are kind of redundant in what they do... maybe they will consolidate them.

Never really cared for either. Too much complexity for too little benefit.

Well back to the dice the d/10 means the lowest is about 6 but most is going to be 8 through 10 which is worse odds than a 5+. So a lot of dice grind.

In my house rules for 3rd using armada dice the thing is armada dice is more generous with the hits because it is a tactical not a strategic game. Even Star Wars Rebellion is more generous giving out hits with their d6 only 2 blank sides.

Anyways Armada dice charts for those that don't play Armada.

• 1-2 blank, 3 accuracy, 4-5 hit, 6-7 crit, 8 double hit
• 1-2 accuracy, 3-6 hit, 7-8 crit
• 1-2 blank, 3-6 hit. 7-8 hit & crit

If I were to adjust the dice to act more like the low hit probability of Twilight Imperium I might need to delete a hit or even a hit and a crit on each dice (with a marker). Then again the idea of dice hits only affecting units of the same color means on certain match ups most of those hits would be blanks. Blue dice don't roll that many crits. Also the marker side will still be there so there is the added bonus of having racial traits or tech still using those deleted sides.

So here is Armada dice with a hit and a crit (hit & crit for black) removed.

• 1-4 blank, 5 accuracy, 6 hit, 7 crit, 8 double hit
• 1-2 blank, 3-4 accuracy, 5-7 hit, 8 crit
• 1-4 blank, 5-7 hit, 8 hit & crit

There the odds would be more grindy , but probably still more prone to RNG and miracle rolls changing the entire outcome.