36 minutes ago, lazycomet said:

I think OT-cheese (and there is a lot of it) gets a pass from many of us due to all the other greatness. But I expected Rogue One to be a lot more thought out--maybe some Naval Consultants, something.

Maybe just not Naval Consultants from the US Navy.

Edit:

More OT: I 100% get the idea of allowing the ships to pass each other; it keeps the game ships moving along and prevent the deathgrind from occurring. This can allow for more fun maneuvering of the Huge ships.

...buuuutttt....

I kinda get the gameplay precedent of two huge ships getting stuck on each other and ripping themselves apart on each other's hull.

Its a toss up for me, both can be fun ways to play.

1 hour ago, lazycomet said:

That "Bumper Cars" scene in Rogue One ranks as one of the WORST scenes in any Star Wars, IMO. It's up there with EWOK rocks/trees beating Stormtroopers and everything Jar Jar. It ruined Rogue One for me.

I cared more about those ships than I did the characters. That was the film's biggest flaw for me. It took me a few times but I really enjoy RO now, however. It's moved pretty high up my list of Star Wars films

@lazycomet Dude, give it a rest. Let's let this thread be about epic x wing, not your dashed expectations for the most perfect movie of all time.

In Rogue One, the attack was a surprise for the Imperials. Scarif was the vacation job for most imperials. Look at the ground response for some more reference. If most of your crew is zoned out or on shore leave, that can hinder response time. One of the best space battle scenes in Star Wars. Followed by some awesome Vader.

Two thoughts:

Rogue One was fun and the space battle looked great for the rebels until the empire decided to call in reinforcments. The empire has shown time and time again how crappy their training is. However, their endless amount of resources is terrifying. With their resources, all they need is time and money to win any engagement.

i actually like ramming speed as a tactic because I fly rebels. lol I play a different space combat miniature game (which I won't mention because it is not FFG) and it is focused around capital ships. There is no ramming or collisions but that game stresses the distance the ships actually are. Since corvettes are anti-fighter ships and dog-fights in Star Wars are incredibly close quartered, ramming seems fine.

The way I see it, most these engagements are brought on by bringing a ship out of hyperspace while they are on a trade route. That would put them on a linear path between planets so when they start that up close and personal and they start on the same plane then capital ramming seems fine. After all, it's cannon lol.

well I'll be darned. That was 3 thoughts. My bad lol

So I question Dutyfree as the best Epic ship. I challenge anyone to beat a well-designed Suppressor:

Grand Moff Tarkin, Shield Technician, Dual Laser Turret, Sensor Team, Broadcast Array, Suppressor, Automated Protocols (69)

You can take/give one focus AND take a focus/TL/Evade at ranges 1-4, or Jam if it's a better tactical choice. Still have a turreted attack. AND you can keep recovering your shields without blowing all your energy thanks to Shield Technician. Four Scimitar Bombers with Unguided Rockets possibly included.

If I have to call one card the absolute MVP of Epic, it's Shield Technician. The one advantage big ships have is regeneration, and it's hard to argue with a way to govern that without losing all your energy to it.

8 minutes ago, iamfanboy said:

So I question Dutyfree as the best Epic ship. I challenge anyone to beat a well-designed Suppressor:

Grand Moff Tarkin, Shield Technician, Dual Laser Turret, Sensor Team, Broadcast Array, Suppressor, Automated Protocols (69)

You can take/give one focus AND take a focus/TL/Evade at ranges 1-4, or Jam if it's a better tactical choice. Still have a turreted attack. AND you can keep recovering your shields without blowing all your energy thanks to Shield Technician. Four Scimitar Bombers with Unguided Rockets possibly included.

If I have to call one card the absolute MVP of Epic, it's Shield Technician. The one advantage big ships have is regeneration, and it's hard to argue with a way to govern that without losing all your energy to it.

Agreed. Pretty much auto-include for me.

7 hours ago, lazycomet said:

My problem was this battle was supposed to be extremely one-sided and grim. Setting up Ep.4, but now?!? I don't see how this battle was one-sided unless we're talking about how badly The Empire appears to get spanked in nearly every engagement. Pffft.

I can see your point a little but some counter points:

1. As others said Scarif was supposed to be a target the Empire never expected to actually be hit so response time was bad
2. After the element of surprise was lost on the ground, the ground team was systematically wiped out.
3. The Rebel fleet uses the surprise and a well coordinated plan and a bit of luck to buy just enough time to obtain their objective but once Imperial reinforcements arrived it was over fast.
4. But here is the real big one, the Rebels had to commit a large portion of their resources to this one battle whereas a handful of Star Destroyers is a drop in the bucket for the Imperial Navy. Before this it was hit & run and sabotage tactics. The Rebel leadership was terrified that if they put all their eggs in one basket they would be taken out in one swift stroke.

I'm retconning a bit here, but at the "Battle of Yavin" the Rebels had a whopping 30 Snub Fighters to throw against the Death Star. There were no capital ships to try to help keep enemy fighters off their back or provide the Death Star gun batteries other targets to worry about. Maybe its because nearly everything they had in a several sector area of the galaxy had been lost at Scarif.

Back on topic. Yes to Ions. Huge ship energy management is key and Ions, especially Ion Torpedoes which can wreck formations, are the bane of all Huge ships.

12 minutes ago, pickirk01 said:

I'm retconning a bit here, but at the "Battle of Yavin" the Rebels had a whopping 30 Snub Fighters to throw against the Death Star. There were no capital ships to try to help keep enemy fighters off their back or provide the Death Star gun batteries other targets to worry about. Maybe its because nearly everything they had in a several sector area of the galaxy had been lost at Scarif.

I think this makes a lot of sense.

For a movie that was made 30 years later, I thought they did a pretty good job of making a (nearly) seamless splice onto the opening of the OT.

10 hours ago, Cloaker said:

Did use Duty Free Freq Jammer (with Automated Protocols) ...it's strong, but Comms Booster (especially with Jan Ors) on Biggs with a fellow Ops Spec Bodhi pilot alongside feeding Focus tokens makes Biggs even more annoying to kill! Plus, when you are down on shields, Bright Hope really comes into its' own with reinforce. You don't even need recover by that point as if you pilot it right you are in the thick of it. I plowed through imperials with a 4 forward who couldn't dare to peel off and get shot in the back. Way easier to rout the opposing force. But you second my point for sure, the transport is awesome.

What is your complete Duty Free build?

10 hours ago, lazycomet said:

Rogue One doesn't leave the impression that the Empire is really that much of a threat.

Then THAT's the reason of the meta FFG engineered this year!

6 hours ago, iamfanboy said:

So I question Dutyfree as the best Epic ship. I challenge anyone to beat a well-designed Suppressor:

Grand Moff Tarkin, Shield Technician, Dual Laser Turret, Sensor Team, Broadcast Array, Suppressor, Automated Protocols (69)

You can take/give one focus AND take a focus/TL/Evade at ranges 1-4, or Jam if it's a better tactical choice. Still have a turreted attack. AND you can keep recovering your shields without blowing all your energy thanks to Shield Technician. Four Scimitar Bombers with Unguided Rockets possibly included.

I totally agree that Suppressor is superior to Dutyfree. I prefer Targeting Coordinator over Shield Technician because many Imperial ships can't TL, and the ones that can often need help. I also prefer Comms Booster over Broadcast Array, but I haven't done much jamming in Epic - arguably because so many of my opponents bring Comms Booster . [EDIT: and Targeting Coordinator allows me to acquire a lock without taking an action, so I am free to use Coordinate --> Automated Protocols --> Reinforce. Of course, with no target locks, I just save myself points and don't equip any weapons.] [EDIT 2: and I have the expanded art Targeting Coordinator card, so I use it whenever I get a chance.]

6 hours ago, iamfanboy said:

If I have to call one card the absolute MVP of Epic, it's Shield Technician. The one advantage big ships have is regeneration, and it's hard to argue with a way to govern that without losing all your energy to it.

Really? I'm just not seeing it. I can never seem to get Recover to work for me because the damage I save from Reinforce always seems to outweigh the shields I get back. It's interesting to read your viewpoints (you and @Darth Meanie), and I'll have to give it some more thought and more table time.

Aren't you epic guys all about to submit to your new mindlinked ordanace vaskai overlords?

Suppressor with Tarkin is "are you really sure you want to field that ace?" - because trying to be an ace with no tokens whatsoever is quite disturbingly hard.

But yes, mid-tier generics en masse are amazing.

For Scum, Fearless Concord Dawn Veterans can be surprisingly scary, we've found.

XX-23 S-Thread Tracers are good, too, but take them in quantity - don't rely on one thread tracer hitting, even if it's blount (he could still die or be blinded before he fires!).

5 hours ago, Parakitor said:

Really? I'm just not seeing it. I can never seem to get Recover to work for me because the damage I save from Reinforce always seems to outweigh the shields I get back. It's interesting to read your viewpoints (you and @Darth Meanie), and I'll have to give it some more thought and more table tim

Best use I've found is on a Raider paired with Instigator. Still can be useful in a Gozanti but they are usually awash with energy as they typically only need 2 energy per turn (weapon and protocols) so losing it on a recover action isn't usually a big deal.

5 hours ago, Ralgon said:

Aren't you epic guys all about to submit to your new mindlinked ordanace vaskai overlords?

No - Jam action.

2 hours ago, Sasajak said:

No - Jam action.

Well, if the Vaksai come close enough to target lock, it's too late to Jam. Since huge ships move last, you can't really stop them. Now, Toryn Farr - that's a good reason not to fear tons of cheap ordnance ships. Captain Kagi helps for the Imperials.

9 hours ago, Parakitor said:

Really? I'm just not seeing it. I can never seem to get Recover to work for me because the damage I save from Reinforce always seems to outweigh the shields I get back. It's interesting to read your viewpoints (you and @Darth Meanie), and I'll have to give it some more thought and more table time.

I've used Shield Tech more with the Raider. Since I need to recharge guns every round, I do not want to dump all energy to shields. . .but if I can, fixing whatever damage got thru is a good idea.

As for saving damage from Reinforce. . .well I try, but my brother is vicious in assaulting the Raider!!

Last night, MVP of Imperial win over Scum (packing eight Cruise Missiles) was Captain Kagi. Granted, they made a tactical mistake in not just erasing Kagi with three missiles before turning to my Gozanti, but the good captain totally discombobulated them.

As an aside, the Vector title (launch all four ships) really should also allow a free action barrel roll. It's very difficult to use the title to good effect and get modified guns on target. I ended up launching two, then Howlrunner, then one. They did good work, but effectively I paid for the title for nothing.

On 14/8/2017 at 8:54 PM, Jeff Wilder said:

As for not bringing Huge ships ... that sounds like great competitive advice. There's other great competitive advice in there. We pretty much ignore all of it.

Being able to get Huge ships on the table is a large part of playing Epic for me. Not worrying about being competitive is most of the rest.

Didnt the OP say not to bring LARGE (not huge) ships (of the 0 agility kind) to the table as the get swamped quickly..

5 minutes ago, GilmoreDK said:

Didnt the OP say not to bring LARGE (not huge) ships (of the 0 agility kind) to the table as the get swamped quickly..

That's probably what he meant, but he didn't capitalize Large (as he did Huge, elsewhere in the post). But yeah, likely what he meant. If so, my bad.

And if so, Ghost with Reinforced Deflectors might be a workable exception.

1 hour ago, Jeff Wilder said:

As an aside, the Vector title (launch all four ships) really should also allow a free action barrel roll. It's very difficult to use the title to good effect and get modified guns on target. I ended up launching two, then Howlrunner, then one. They did good work, but effectively I paid for the title for nothing.

Vector does increase your energy limit by 1 and is the cheapest title at 2 points. It is possible to use Co-ordinate on the Gozanti and Tarkin to get those focus tokens on the barrel rollers and deploy all four from the same end. Alternatively you can deploy two from the front and two from the back which I did once when the Gozanti was surrounded! That was fun.

I've always been thinking about Kagi with Reinforced Deflectors to eat missiles. Haven't tried it yet. Kinda the anti-ordinance Imperial Biggs

22 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

What is your complete Duty Free build?

4 hours ago, kris40k said:

I've always been thinking about Kagi with Reinforced Deflectors to eat missiles. Haven't tried it yet. Kinda the anti-ordinance Imperial Biggs

My buddy flew that Reinforced Deflectors Kagi last weekend. What a pain to deal with. Breach Specialist (as a discard crew) and Moff Jerjerood... insane value for 33 points.

14 hours ago, Sasajak said:

Best use I've found is on a Raider paired with Instigator. Still can be useful in a Gozanti but they are usually awash with energy as they typically only need 2 energy per turn (weapon and protocols) so losing it on a recover action isn't usually a big deal.

No - Jam action.

Raiders with double IG Thug Droids are total murder. They peel ships off the board like candy....but, sexpensive.