3 hours ago, Biophysical said:Isn't that what the OP is about? 34 points of Quickdraw can handle 43 points of Nym pretty effectively. There's enough left for Soontir and Inquisitor if you love double repositioning, or a pair of Defenders if you like beefy ships, or one of each, or more SFs, or whatever.
Or, if you're a madman like me, run the rest of the list as GLORIOUS TIE STRIKERS!
Strikers won't have any problems staying out of range 1.
5 minutes ago, Warlon said:Or, if you're a madman like me, run the rest of the list as GLORIOUS TIE STRIKERS!
Strikers won't have any problems staying out of range 1.
That's a legit list, not even kidding. Pack an Ion Pulse Missiles on Quickdraw.
4 hours ago, wurms said:
QD is not a REALLY bad matchup, but its a decent matchup for the imps which we need at this point in time. Quickdraw seems like she is our 2017 saving grace. Hard to imagine an imperial squad without her these days.
Exactly. He is not Op vs any build but vs some hes a little stronger. When you face him you dont feel like you dont have a fair chance. Thats not the case for Nym... I think what upset people the most is that hes a natural hunter for stuff that were already weak.
Basically.
PTL re-position Aces can solo 60 pts of a list on a good day.
Aces cost about 35 pts.
That means you get 65 pts to throw at 43ish pt Nym and sacrifice until Nym dies. Then swing in your 35 pt Ace and hope you're still a good enough player to pull that off.
6 hours ago, Biophysical said:That's a legit list, not even kidding. Pack an Ion Pulse Missiles on Quickdraw.
I wish I had the time to try out the following list before GenCon, but I am already having a hard time picking a list to bring.
"Quickdraw" (29)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Fire-Control System (2)
Ion Pulse Missiles (3)
Pattern Analyzer (2)
Lightweight Frame (2)
Special Ops Training (0)
"Countdown" (20)
Lightweight Frame (2)
Adaptive Ailerons (0)
Imperial Trainee (17)
Lightweight Frame (2)
Adaptive Ailerons (0)
Imperial Trainee (17)
Lightweight Frame (2)
Adaptive Ailerons (0)
Total: 99
Imperials are not in that bad of a spot, it is just Imperial players refuse to play any other Imperial builds than Aces. Well right now Protectorates are the ship of choice for skilled arc-dodgers.
25 minutes ago, Marinealver said:Imperials are not in that bad of a spot, it is just Imperial players refuse to play any other Imperial builds than Aces. Well right now Protectorates are the ship of choice for "skilled" arc-dodgers.
You forgot the quotation marks around skilled.
Just in case it's not clear via text, that was a joke 
10 hours ago, Biophysical said:That's a legit list, not even kidding. Pack an Ion Pulse Missiles on Quickdraw.
Trust me, I know.
Strikers are all I fly most of the time.
Problem is all my friend flies is Rey, and she can destroy them in one good shot.
Friggin turrets man.
3 hours ago, Marinealver said:Imperials are not in that bad of a spot, it is just Imperial players refuse to play any other Imperial builds than Aces. Well right now Protectorates are the ship of choice for skilled arc-dodgers.
Excuse me but I call BS on this.
Have you seen TIE Fighters with their 2- attack dice do well in recent times? No? Now why do you think that is?
The same goes for any other 2 attack Imperial ship.
How about those 4 Hull strikers without thrusters and attack mods (unless you're packing expensive ships with Target Synch) ?
Or bombers, with their inferior dial and difficulties of obtaining target locks, versus munitions cost?
Oh and the TIE Advanced Prototype is great, right? Nope.
Imperial Firesprays? *cue Jabba laughter*
TIE PunishNots?
Decimators? they die to Alpha strikes & 4+ ship lists (like, y'know Fair Ship Rebels..)
Aggressors? are just fragile TLT carriers, with higher variance. Not ideal for tournament performance.
Phantoms? are currently in the dust due to the PS 10 and Bomb meta. Only those who are truly brave, or insane - fly Phantoms (this, is currently me).
etc. etc. etc.
Nym wrecking PS9 imperial aces really is not much of a problem at all. Not because it's well balanced but because he can't kick them out of the meta when Sabine has already done that about a year ago. It's a bit like saying that, say, auzituck makes B-wings obsolete. Maybe that's the case, but who cares? Haven't seen a B-wing in a tournament list for ages.
I'd be more concerned for Scum aces, especially if the leaked mindlink nerf goes live. With his mobility being restricted by PTL, Fenn will be an easy prey for Nym and might disappear from the tables. His only saving grace is that for each great matchup Nym has there will be several horrible ones. Any list that is tanky and/or capable of regeneration is a nightmare to him. In the end of the day it's a very epensive ship that will inevitably go down if he receives even relatively low intensity fire over the course of several turns. The question is whether he can kill enough (or at least provide a big enough distraction) during the time he has. I'm willing to bet that any competently flown list not based on mass use of fragile ships will be able to take him down.
39 minutes ago, Keffisch said:Have you seen TIE Fighters with their 2- attack dice do well in recent times?
Yes. The TIE Swarm and it's variants are still not to be messed with.
39 minutes ago, Keffisch said:How about those 4 Hull strikers without thrusters and attack mods
Yes. In fact people are discussing them just a little way up the page...
39 minutes ago, Keffisch said:Or bombers, with their inferior dial and difficulties of obtaining target locks, versus munitions cost?
TIE PunishNots?
Yes, in fact Imperial Alpha lists are becoming increasingly popular following the advent of Cruise Missiles. And LWF. And to a lesser extent Unguided Rockets. And don't forget the Shuttle builds.
And clearly you haven't seen the carnage an Advanced Sensors Deathrain can bring with Bomblet Generator.
Edited by FTS GeckoQuoteYes. The TIE Swarm and it's variants are still not to be messed with.
Indeed, they look very menacing - on the shelf.
http://meta-wing.com/ship_combos/61
QuoteYes. In fact people are discussing them just a little way up the page...
Yes and while people are beginning to discuss them here, we've been playtesting them since they were spoiled. 
Our conclusion = awesome ship, fun to fly, but not tournament viable at this time - outside of jank-builds. If you're into that, props to you and we should start a club (Jankz Is Us?) - but most players I know aren't.
QuoteYes, in fact Imperial Alpha lists are becoming increasingly popular following the advent of Cruise Missiles. And LWF. And to a lesser extent Unguided Rockets. And don't forget the Shuttle builds.
Cruisin' Aces (with BD or Quizzy as the third ship) were the first lists I played since they spoiled Cruise Missiles.
It is fantastic, sadly FSR laughs at it and even new players flying DeNym(tm) can still solo your remaining 2-2.5 Aces with just Dengar and his dial is so good that you'd have to be able to perform some wild magic, in order to catch him in the Alpha.
QuoteAnd clearly you haven't seen the carnage an Advanced Sensors Deathrain can bring with Bomblet Generator.
Not much carnage going on for that 9 "health", agi 1 point Piñata - lemme tell you.. Edit: and he's PS 6.
Now - if TIE/Puns came with in-built Sensor Jammers, then maybe.
I keep thinking that they are one or two upgrade cards away from being awesome. Alas..
26 minutes ago, Keffisch said:Not much carnage going on for that 9 "health", agi 1 point Piñata - lemme tell you.. Edit: and he's PS 6.
I have to concur with this - AS Bomblet Deathrain is fun, for sure, but he isn't good. He still takes up a third of your list and will not contribute enough damage before he is destroyed. I have repeatedly tried to disprove that basic tenet with him, but every game is the same. He does some jank, maybe gets a few points of damage through from a bomb that required 5 solid minutes of careful planning (between AS, his free Barrel Roll, and his maneuver) to ensure you don't hit yourself, or your wingmen who are moving after him, and then he's dead.
Edited by MalusCalibur21 hours ago, Stay On The Leader said:Cool. A lot of people aren't having fun, though, and you won't convince them that they ARE actually having fun by talking about power level.
NPE is not the far end of the 'OK ---> OP' axis, it's a different axis in its own right.
Because too many people view having fun as winning. Which is a skewed view. If i played against a good nym pilot who wiped the floor with me i would have had fun because i would have enjoyed watching him fly so well. If i lost to a bad pilot that would be on MY bad flying and MY decisions not his. We have to stop blaming other people for our bad results. Is Nym powerful? Yes. But that makes it all the more rewarding when you beat him. So no Nym is not an NPE it is you the player that can choose to make him so.
Stay classy gents.
7 hours ago, Marinealver said:Imperials are not in that bad of a spot, it is just Imperial players refuse to play any other Imperial builds than Aces. Well right now Protectorates are the ship of choice for skilled arc-dodgers.
This is the current meta: http://meta-wing.com/ship_combos?
- The first imperial built is in 13th position. Wouldnt you consider that a bad spot? I do.
- All the top imperial builds and the most played ones dont have aces. The first Imperial built with aces is in 22nd position and represent only 0.5% of the total # of squad played.
- Protectorates are dropping in ranking and will continu to do so thanks to Nym.
20 minutes ago, 4fox100 said:Because too many people view having fun as winning.
Where do you get that? IMO:
- Not having a fair chance to win: not fun.
- When i feel i need to bring materials from factions i'd rather not play in order to get a fair fight: not fun
- My opponent can make many mistakes and i have to play perfectly to win: not fun
- No way to defend myself against some type of attacks that can be used consistently and regurlarly with no drawback: not fun
- Seing the same god darn ships and pilots again and again and again because they steamroll everything else: not fun
- Fair fight and i lose because my opponent was more skilled than me: fun (especially if the game was tight or if i got a chance to learn something)
1 hour ago, 4fox100 said:Is Nym powerful? Yes. But that makes it all the more rewarding when you beat him. So no Nym is not an NPE it is you the player that can choose to make him so.
So, in other words...
8 hours ago, Marinealver said:Imperials are not in that bad of a spot, it is just Imperial players refuse to play any other Imperial builds than Aces. Well right now Protectorates are the ship of choice for skilled arc-dodgers.
Also, there is enough differences in how Fangs and Imp Aces fly that comparing them can be counterproductive. Add to that Scum's better selection of large base ships to act as buffers between the Fangs and things like Nym, and you have a very different situation then what Imps have to work with.
34 minutes ago, Thormind said:This is the current meta: http://meta-wing.com/ship_combos?
- The first imperial built is in 13th position. Wouldnt you consider that a bad spot? I do.
- All the top imperial builds and the most played ones dont have aces. The first Imperial built with aces is in 22nd position and represent only 0.5% of the total # of squad played.
- Protectorates are dropping in ranking and will continu to do so thanks to Nym.
Where do you get that? IMO:
- Not having a fair chance to win: not fun.
- When i feel i need to bring materials from factions i'd rather not play in order to get a fair fight: not fun
- My opponent can make many mistakes and i have to play perfectly to win: not fun
- No way to defend myself against some type of attacks that can be used consistently and regurlarly with no drawback: not fun
- Seing the same god darn ships and pilots again and again and again because they steamroll everything else: not fun
- Fair fight and i lose because my opponent was more skilled than me: fun (especially if the game was tight or if i got a chance to learn something)
I get that from my experience at tournies. Quite a few people were very upset when i was winning against their net lists (i was using a home brew list). Saying things like 'i came all this way just to lose'. I have yet to see someone complain about something being a total NPE when they just wiped the floor with their opponent. But lose to something a few times? Has to be OP or an NPE. It is YOUR decision to make it so. Your opponent has no control over YOUR attitude. That relies solely on you. So imo nothing in this game is an NPE by itself. Once you decide to let it become that is when it turns into that.
1 minute ago, SabineKey said:Also, there is enough differences in how Fangs and Imp Aces fly that comparing them can be counterproductive.
Yup. With the title (and Fenn's ability), Fangs are guided rockets. They can joust effectively, and prefer taking modifiers. Imperial Aces on the other hand usually want to avoid taking shots altogether if possible, or at the very least avoid taking in-arc shots.
Will nerfing Attanni change that up? Probably not; a PtL Fenn is probably still more likely to boost into range one then take a focus than he is to barrel roll and boost into an out-of-arc position.
5 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:Yup. With the title (and Fenn's ability), Fangs are guided rockets. They can joust effectively, and prefer taking modifiers. Imperial Aces on the other hand usually want to avoid taking shots altogether if possible, or at the very least avoid taking in-arc shots.
Will nerfing Attanni change that up? Probably not; a PtL Fenn is probably still more likely to boost into range one then take a focus than he is to barrel roll and boost into an out-of-arc position.
As i had said when it first came out the Fang is a Heavy Interceptor relying on more up in your face tactics and overwhelming your opponent with speed and power. Imps have Light Interceptors relying on evading, playing the long game, and only attacking at the opportune moment.
Edited by 4fox100Personally i havnt seen a TIE swarm in a long time, though i know people still use them in larger tournaments.
Actually on the topic of things i havnt seen in awhile, i havnt seen a standard "ace" from imps in a long time either (except from one guy who seems to be like 2 years behind the meta). Vader is the closest i see, and hes not behaving the same way anymore. Now hes sporting cruise missiles and being more of a hit-and-run guy rather than a boost/roll arc-dodger.
Strikers, SFs, Vader, Bombers, and the upsilon are stupid common in my area. With the occasional TIE slapped.
Also dont badmouth my punisher! Deathrain is KING!
1 hour ago, FTS Gecko said:So, in other words...
Repeat after me: NPE is nothing todo with power level. NPE is nothing to do with power level. NPE is nothing to do with power level.
Are we getting through to you? At all? Even a little bit?
4 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:Repeat after me: NPE is nothing todo with power level. NPE is nothing to do with power level. NPE is nothing to do with power level.
Are we getting through to you? At all? Even a little bit?
Exactly.
8 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:Repeat after me: NPE is nothing todo with power level. NPE is nothing to do with power level. NPE is nothing to do with power level.
Are we getting through to you? At all? Even a little bit?
You're absolutely right. NPE is about attitude. Which was the entire point of that image - guess that flew right over your head in your haste to get a riposte in, huh?
Edited by FTS Gecko10 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:Repeat after me: NPE is nothing todo with power level. NPE is nothing to do with power level. NPE is nothing to do with power level.
Are we getting through to you? At all? Even a little bit?
idk, given how everyone keeps whining about the top lists in particular, there definitely seems to be a strong correlation