It has been correctly observed that PS 10 Nym makes life very hard for PS9 Imperial Aces. The Bomblet Generator and Autoblaster Turret and extreme maneuverability of Advanced Sensors Nym counter all of, say, Soontir Fel's strengths.

There's a funny thing about this game, though, it's not even that unjust. Fel is 34-35 points. The squirreliest Nym build is 43 points. That's a big difference. Nym should have a big advantage. The extreme one-sidedness of this matchup is not ideal, but look at Fel vs Rey or a Brobot or two TLTs, where Fel can punch way above his weight class.

Even better, Imperials have their own ship that causes Nym problems. Quickdraw, VI, FCS, and LWF costs 34 points, and is extraordinarily good against Nym. None of Nym's mobility tricks are that good agaisnt PS11, because he's flying blind. He can't even predict that well against Quickdraw because The rear arc gives Quickdraw too many good moves. Nym's lousy AGI1 means even Quickdraw's rear arc is doing damage. On top of all this, Quickdraw's 6 hit points aren't all that afraid of Bomblet Generator, and she sometimes can use it as a tool when she flies into Range 1 and gets two Range 1 shots before Nym will even get to fire at PS10.

This is a ship which has real and substantial advantages against Nym, and is very strong against almost everything else, and costs a good 9 points less than Nym. If Nym is unfair to PS9 aces, and costs more, and that is considered unjust, then what do you call it when Quickdraw is less than Nym and has an advantageous matchup?

Doesn't even seem you need ps 11 for nym

Smart use of aux arc, flying away to avoid bombletts, and his god awful defenses prove to be a big threat regardless

I really don't know where to start, that's just some incredibly twisted logic.

And btw, I'm not really in the 'omg Nym is a disaster' camp. But everything you just said was nonsense, so if that's the best counter-argument to Nym being a problem then maybe he IS a disaster after all.

Agreed entirely @Biophysical - fortunately for the Imperials, Nym has zero ways to tank damage. One agility, with no defensive upgrades or buffs available, he's toast to concentrated fire, so the usual Imperial strategy of sending in the mooks works wonders.

Nym at range one might mean death for low health, high agility Aces like Soonir Fel, The Inquisitor or Omega Leader that rely on tokening up or arc dodging to survive, but he folds quickly against weight of numbers. The humble Academy TIE will help wreck Nym, if you have an equivalent points value of them.

5 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

I really don't know where to start, that's just some incredibly twisted logic.

And btw, I'm not really in the 'omg Nym is a disaster' camp. But everything you just said was nonsense, so if that's the best counter-argument to Nym being a problem then maybe he IS a disaster after all.

Oh please,

In a meta where low health were actually at all relevant or predominant, you would **** them much harder with the literally unavoidable vadermator

Been around since wave 5

Aces have always had bad matchups LONG before nym. That's what happens when you skew ANYTHING, in this case low health with high manueverability and green dice damage mitigation

I'm not even sure what any of that means either.

1 minute ago, ficklegreendice said:

Aces have always had bad matchups LONG before nym. That's what happens when you skew ANYTHING, in this case low health with high manueverability and green dice damage mitigation

Yup. VI Mangler Numb wrecks Soontir just as hard as Nym, and survives almost as long.

10 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Doesn't even seem you need ps 11 for nym

Smart use of aux arc, flying away to avoid bombletts, and his god awful defenses prove to be a big threat regardless

You're right. Backdraft is pretty solid as well.

11 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

I really don't know where to start, that's just some incredibly twisted logic.

And btw, I'm not really in the 'omg Nym is a disaster' camp. But everything you just said was nonsense, so if that's the best counter-argument to Nym being a problem then maybe he IS a disaster after all.

Care to elaborate?

This sounds like you're trying to talk about power level, and I don't think the complaints about Nym are relating to his power level but to whether he's fun to play against or not.

It's like trying to argue that a vegan should eat beef because it's been well cooked.

That's great... Now you have to deal with Dengar

Just now, Biophysical said:

You're right. Backdraft is pretty solid as well.

Those goddamn crits

Good luck avoiding them at 1 agi, ow

1 minute ago, FTS Gecko said:

Yup. VI Mangler Numb wrecks Soontir just as hard as Nym, and survives almost as long.

Plus r3a2, ADV SLAM wardens, bumpmaster Manny etcetcetc

If anyone skews with a low health ace, they can either compensate with the rest of the list or go all in. Hut going all in on a skew is going to result in horrible matchups no matter the game

I remember warmachine/hordes players griping because their lumbering brick list got ****** on objectives because control casters just froze them before they reached the zone

Hey, they walked into that matchups not me

3 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

This sounds like you're trying to talk about power level, and I don't think the complaints about Nym are relating to his power level but to whether he's fun to play against or not.

"OMG, Nym is NPE becaus every time I fly into range 1 I get bombed and he autoblasts me."

Well, stay out of range one then. Learn to fight at long range. Simples.

8 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

This sounds like you're trying to talk about power level, and I don't think the complaints about Nym are relating to his power level but to whether he's fun to play against or not.

It's like trying to argue that a vegan should eat beef because it's been well cooked.

I'm talking about using a variety of ships in a list to make up for the weaknesses of the other ships. I'm talking about how expensive ships being more powerful than less expensive ships isn't a travesty. I mentioned that the extreme nature of the Nym-ace matchup is not ideal, but it's probably less unjust than many of the current matchups.

I'll admit I don't address the fun concerns, because I really only find things unfun when I have no decisions to make, and there are lots of available ships that have decisions to make regarding Nym.

Which misses the point. Again.

IS. HE. FUN.

8 minutes ago, Jo Jo said:

That's great... Now you have to deal with Dengar

At least there's 66 more points in the list to tackle Dengar.

21 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

Which misses the point. Again.

IS. HE. FUN.

Sometimes, fun is subjective, and I can't make people have fun. I can show how you can make decisions against him.

He does indeed hard counter soontir, awings, jax, or any 3/4hp ace.

Also gives Vader a run for his money but the doubleaction economy tends to let him win anyway.

I have yet to lose to a single Nym, its not that hard to stay out of range1. I am used to staying at a distance anyway so his weakness is my casual play. Heck majority of the games ive had against him i took him out in 1 round of combat because they just go "Herher i am R1 OP Incarnate you cant beat me" and i pincer him at R2 between 3 ships, 1 with cruises banked up, and utterly destroy him.
I have ALWAYS told friends and new players to never gun for R1 unless you have the PS advantage. It is a trap, and even if you have the PS advantage it can be a trap. More often than not when i get R1, unless im in a position where i cant get return-fire it almost always bites me in the face. It also heavily limits your mobility for continued assault, while R2/3 does not.

5 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

Which misses the point. Again.

IS. HE. FUN.

I'm having buckets of fun flying Nym, guided bomb delivery system that he is.

I'm also having tons of fun trying to blow him out of the sky before he reaches me.

I'll also point out that Nym absolutely despises Tractor Beams and Ion Cannons, and setting up bad moves for the guy or dumping him on a rock is hilarious.

Cool. A lot of people aren't having fun, though, and you won't convince them that they ARE actually having fun by talking about power level.

NPE is not the far end of the 'OK ---> OP' axis, it's a different axis in its own right.

5 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

"OMG, Nym is NPE becaus every time I fly into range 1 I get bombed and he autoblasts me."

Well, stay out of range one then. Learn to fight at long range. Simples.

Ok I'm seriously not on either side of this discussion but if there is one thing that has been debunked time and time again it is that you can simply "fly better" to not get an ace melted by Nym. This is not an argument unless you are flying against an incompetent player. Hardly any truly competitive player believes Nym is not one of the hardest counters the game has ever seen to 3 agility aces ever.

1 minute ago, Kdubb said:

Ok I'm seriously not on either side of this discussion but if there is one thing that has been debunked time and time again it is that you can simply "fly better" to not get an ace melted by Nym. This is not an argument unless you are flying against an incompetent player. Hardly any truly competitive player believes Nym is not one of the hardest counters the game has ever seen to 3 agility aces ever.

As I've said elsewhere, what PS10 Nym most reminds me of is Whisper in the way that he's incredibly binary in what he's good against. He's rarely well-matched against anything, he just crushes or gets crushed.

5 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

Cool. A lot of people aren't having fun, though, and you won't convince them that they ARE actually having fun by talking about power level.

NPE is not the far end of the 'OK ---> OP' axis, it's a different axis in its own right.

I'm probably being too subtle, but I was trying to get at the point that Quickdraw is at a point level and she is a strong enough matchup that she lets you bring at least one traditional ace, to still play your aces. Can you do all 3 as aces? Sorry, can't help, but there is definitely room to play with 1-2.

2 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

As I've said elsewhere, what PS10 Nym most reminds me of is Whisper in the way that he's incredibly binary in what he's good against. He's rarely well-matched against anything, he just crushes or gets crushed.

Eh, considering the meta isn't only nym and his counter s, I can safely say that this is an exaggerated comparison

PS11 or PS10 bid helps sure...

I think the better question though is how many really fun ships across all factions does Nym out right table with pre-movement bomb dropping. If you fly anything in the PS 7-9 range your in trouble. Its still winnable. Everythings winnable. Its just sorta rough.

Staying outside of range 1-2 is also much easier said then done unless you have a turret that lets you point the other way and still take shots. Or have a rear arc like you said ( hello PS10 Bobba Fett ).

On that note actually it would be cool to see a detailed tactics write up on how to stay at R3 and still take shots with specific arc ships. Its doable im just not really familiar with how to do it consistently yet. The board gets small quick and Nym has a 4 and 5 forward + crew slot.