I'm going to try flying 4 Zeta s/f, each with Title, Collision Detector, and LWF. Always take focus actions, unless I get TL opportunities while fart-shooting my way past the initial joust. I'm going to try flying this squadron in Finger Four formation.

Am I nuts?

I mean...it's not top competitive, but it looks fun.

Also,I've seen butt gun, but I haven't seen fart shooting?.

Just beware of Area Damage.

On 13/08/2017 at 3:03 AM, Alekzanter said:

Am I nuts?

No. Eight firing arcs isn't exactly nuts, but you'll need to play a few games with a list like that to get it down.

Maybe FCS instead of lightweight frame for more damage output?

I second for FCS.

Killing ships is the best defense.

If you don't mind dropping down to 3 ships, the following list is actually quite deadly:

3 Omega Specs w/ crackshot, FCS, target synch & LWF = 33

99

Normally, FCS doesn't give any benefit on the first turn of shooting. But in this list, only your first ship does not benefit from a TL. The other two Omega Specs get to spend their previous shooting buddy's target lock, so on the first turn, only 1 ship doesn't get to re-roll attack dice. After that, basically, for the rest of the game, all of your ships are benefiting from TL until you switch targets (and then, only the first shooter doesn't get re-rolls). Also, crack shot means that your initial turn of shooting can be quite dangerous...

But anyway, I would certainly not consider any TIE/sf build an 'underdog'. The TIE/sf is arguably the most 'competitive' ship the Imperials have right now...

Thing is, once you are down to three ships, why not go for aces ? IMHO, the benefit of underdogs is that you can fill four (or more) of them.

Well, if I could remember to use FCS, I'd have fared better. As it was, I still stomped.

I placed obstacles a bit far out, but the entire game took place in and around them. I took a page out of Paul Heaver's book, and flew over them with impunity. Being able to slow roll after the first pass and maximize that rear firing arc is solid.

Turn 3, Dutch was space dust without stripping more than one shield. After that, my opponent was quite a bit more cautious. We called the game due to time but I had cleared Tycho, and had PS 9 Poe down to 1 hull. However, I blanked a 3-dice shot and a 4-dice shot on Pod near the end and called it; we would have been jostling for position again for another ten minutes or so, and it was getting close go closing time.

If the game had been tourney timed I'd have won, Dutch for 27 in exchange for my 25-point Zeta s/f.

Good game, I felt.

Now to remember I have FCS...

Funny. I just came back from a tournament yesterday and I got first (4-0, MoV:625) with 4 Zeta Specialist with title and FCS. Every game ended before time was called while losing only 1-2 ships. The list is brutal.

A while ago (during wave 9), I decided to only fly First Order or Resistance ship, so I experiment a lot with them (although I don't play as much as I used to). Before the tournament, I tried the 4 SF with Lightframe a couple of game, and my verdict was that it lacked offensive punch without really getting much in defense. There is no proving that this third green die will be useful and it ties yourself to the focus action. If you use your Focus in defense, you are then stuck with a unmodified shot in offense. You will likely die faster than you kill. I still won the games, but it was more reliant on dice rolls, something that I hate during a tournament.

FCS brings you the consistency you need to really threaten your opponents. After the first round of engagement, you will almost always have a modifier to attack, sometimes 2. Usually with a low PS ship, it can be hard to keep a line of sight on your TLed ship, but in the case of the SF, with the Rear Firing Arc, it gets easier. You should abuse this arc. Double attack is a bonus, with 4 SF it will happens from time to time, just don't chase after it. And when it does happen, you'll be glad to have a TL on one of your target, this way you can use the Focus on the other and benefit from 2 modified shots. Initial approach should be in formation for the initial joust (although I did played a game where I splitted into to pair of ship to flank) and you should aim for range 3 first round to get your TLs, then next round range 1 with a block if possible to deny your target his action. The good thing with the SF is that if they choose to fly past you, you still have your rear firing arc to shoot them. After the initial joust, start to split and come back from every side (Segnor-Loop helps a lot to split your ships, and I usually did not S-Loop with every ships). If all your ship survived, play more defensively with the damaged one, try to take your distance with it. Other than that, concentrate fire and be aggressive. Since you have a TL, don't worry about keeping your stress sometimes if it means that you can close-in faster for the kill. Very fun squadron to fly... and it's a beautiful sight.

I also tried the squad proposed by blade_mercurial : 3 Omega Specs w/ crackshot, FCS, target synch & LWF = 33

It was indeed brutal. There is not a lot of things that can resist that Alpha Strike. Only thing is, sometimes you'll face something that hit even harder than you, or faster, and you'll lose a ship before it even got a chance to fire. In that case, you are stuck with only 2 Omega Specs and that a gimmick that is not worth the points with only 2 ships. Against that Alpha Strike, with 4 Zeta, you'll still have 3 Zeta to shoot and continue the battle.

And finally, I'll again agree with blade_mercurial, Tie/SF is not an underdog. I've been saying it since they came out, this ship is brutal and priced correctly. It might seems like an underdog to some because you actually have to know what your doing with it and doesn't benefit from a lot of tricks like other flashy ship does. Don't underestimate that Rear Arc or this potencial for a 2-attack round. You're opponent will cry when that happens.

Ill be flying 4 Zeta s/f again, tonight. It is a lot of fun! At first glance, it seems straight forward, simple, but it does require a lot of pre-planning and skill; with s/f Title options and multiple arcs it really keeps the pressure on an opponent. And a common comment about the list is its resilience. And with Collision Detector (and the ocassional risk taking), a fight in a tight cluster of obstacles is where they thrive; you find out who's good at flying within them, and who isn't.

Agreed! I'll probably keep flying it too myself for a while.

Resilience is indeed something that I heard a lot during the tournament... that and the constant threat of firepower coming from everywhere. Some players compared it to the old BBBBZ. Resiliant and hit hard.

So...

Flew against Rebel Nym (kitted with all the bells and whistles) and regen Poe. During the initial joust (turn 2) my dice just flopped, and it was a struggle from then onward. I really think I deployed incorrectly; I brought the obstacle cluster about one and one-half range bands back toward me and engaged within them, but my formation was too tight, and the Rebel repositioning after that prevented me from concentrating fire. My first shots (all 4 Zetas) were on Poe, but I only managed to strip 2 shields; having target locks, I rolled a ton of focus, then rerolled a ton of focus. Bleh. Poe's evades were weak, but still...

I was tabled in about 8 turns, but I'd managed to get a crit on Nym then cause him to bump me for 1 damage, bring him down to 2 hull, and regen Poe was shieldless and sitting on 1 hull. A range 3 unmodified 3-dice shot landed 3 hits on Pod, but the bugger rolled just enough paint, and Autothrusters cinched it for him.

Not a bad flight, though. I even had two turns where both Nym and Poe got blocked or bumped, I just didn't have enough guns. Even getting bomblet pounded three times, I did well. But for the dice on that first pass...

Im having fun flying this list, something I'd been missing for months. Once more into the breach!

On ‎28‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 2:52 PM, Red Castle said:

It might seems like an underdog to some because you actually have to know what your doing with it and doesn't benefit from a lot of tricks like other flashy ship does. Don't underestimate that Rear Arc or this potencial for a 2-attack round. You're opponent will cry when that happens

Especially since a lot of the time, if you get 2 attacks, you often find one is at range 1....if you can get both double-tap attacks at range 1, it's a glorious sight....

I'm a big fan of 4 x T-70 with R2 Astromechs, so it's nice to see the empire get an equivalent super-heavy swarm of their own.

58 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

I'm a big fan of 4 x T-70 with R2 Astromechs, so it's nice to see the empire get an equivalent super-heavy swarm of their own.

That would be one beautiful thematic game! That's the best games in my book, just like when I played one game against Rey/Poe.

I tried 4 T-70 a couple of time, and the fun I had with it is one of the reason why I decided to buy a fourth Tie/Sf.

Sadly, comparing both ship shows that the T-70 is lacking. Same stats line (one more health for the T-70 with IA); T-70 is slightly more maneuvrable but still is predictable; SF have a rear arc; SF will benefit from FCS (or lightframe, but really, you should go with FCS); SF has one more PS; The eternal fight between Boost vs Barrel Roll.

All that to say that if you're already a big fan of 4 T-70, you should give 4 SF a try.

12 minutes ago, Red Castle said:

Sadly, comparing both ship shows that the T-70 is lacking. Same stats line (one more health for the T-70 with IA); T-70 is slightly more maneuvrable but still is predictable; SF have a rear arc; SF will benefit from FCS (or lightframe, but really, you should go with FCS); SF has one more PS; The eternal fight between Boost vs Barrel Roll.

On the other hand, the T-20 has white speed 3 turns and green speed 2 turns (and banks), and talon rolls, making for a much faster ship. Yes, the TIE/sf can rely on its fire control to tolerate being stressed better, but the T-70 can recover stress a lot, lot faster. Plus, the Integrated Astromech is a pretty big deal - it's probably a bit better than an extra shield, given it's "get rid of the worst critical you would take" effect. Plus - if you're prepared to fly a bit tighter, the Resistance can swap one T-70 for Jess Pava, who's an outright [censored] to face with three wingmen!

PS is on the Zeta Specialist's side, true (but this only really comes into play in a straight swarm-off). It's nice that (like Scarif Defenders) PS3 is enough to lift you out of the worst effects of predator, though.

I'd agree the TIE/sf should probably have the edge, but it'd be a very close thing.

Just now, Magnus Grendel said:

On the other hand, the T-20 has white speed 3 turns and green speed 2 turns (and banks), and talon rolls, making for a much faster ship. Yes, the TIE/sf can rely on its fire control to tolerate being stressed better, but the T-70 can recover stress a lot, lot faster. Plus, the Integrated Astromech is a pretty big deal - it's probably a bit better than an extra shield, given it's "get rid of the worst critical you would take" effect.

PS is on the Zeta Specialist's side, true (but this only really comes into play in a straight swarm-off). It's nice that (like Scarif Defenders) PS3 is enough to lift you out of the worst effects of predator, though.

I'd agree the TIE/sf should probably have the edge, but it'd be a very close thing.

Indeed! I still like to fly 4 T-70 and in the end, it's a matter of personnal taste which of the two you prefer. And it is not because one is better that the other is crap.

But if there is one thing that I can add, is that whichever of the two you prefer, flying both of those squad actually feel like you're playing the game. You don't have a load of cards to save you, you can't pull many tricks to get you out of a situation, and with your low PS you have to actually predict where your opponent will go (taking into account all the arc dodging tricks he can pull). It's a return to the roots of the game, and I think that's why I had so much fun with the 4 SF list during the tournament.

Try to guess where your opponent will go, set your maneuver, and pew-pew!

Been a few weeks; I dabbled with trip T-70s last week, actually went 2-0. Came back to quad Zeta s/f this week and SMASHED the alliance!

First game against (old) Chewbacca, Tycho, and a GSP. After stripping shields in turn two, I blocked the Falcon turn three and burned him down. Tycho was plinked for two shields in turn three and burned him turn four. Ganged up on the GSP turn five and it was over. To be fair, my opponent and longtime friend hasn't played in quite a while, and his dice were poor.

Second game was against Thane, Shara, and Roark...a list we refer to locally as "The Buzzsaw". Swarm leader on Shara, lots of focus/evade token stacking. As in the first game, I took initiative. Obstacle placement is my best friend! Placing first at PS 3, I kept my fight side wide, and orchestrated a loose cluster in front of my deployment zone. I set up finger-four facing to my right. First turn I booked forward 4, next turn crept 1, then in the third S-looped forward-right with three Zetas and forward 2 with the fourth. Came back left, 2 forward to clear stress with the three, left turn 2 with the fourth to put it on the right flank for a run into my opponents backfield. Next turn, I right 2d with the three, 4 forward with the flanker into a good spot go swing around an asteroid. All the while my opponent guessed well where I would go, but not why...

Rebs stacked/hoarded tokens to no avail. Turn five stripped two shields from Thane, then blocked him and burned him in six. I let Tue Buzzsaw come all the way into my backfield, into the obstacle cluster, and I never left my own deployment zone by more than a small base length except for my flanker. Burned Roark in 7, and my Opponent conceded. His dice were wretched, having only plinked off 1 shield.

Implemented a well-thought strategy, and it worked, I just wish I could have talked him into playing it out. It would have been a slog, but I wanted more data. Eh.

Great night for Empire!