6 hours ago, Marinealver said:

You do know that it is a physical game where the set up is with cards that are printed. Unless you want them to print out new cards and then ban old cards that is what you are proposing which opens up a whole new can of worms.

I repeat it because you still make this strawman:

They can release reprints with the correct card text. The old cards that are already around can still be used, in exactly the same way as today. All of these cards use the same text and rules. The only difference is that one set of cards has it printed and the other one does not.

7 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

I repeat it because you still make this strawman:

They can release reprints with the correct card text. The old cards that are already around can still be used, in exactly the same way as today. All of these cards use the same text and rules. The only difference is that one set of cards has it printed and the other one does not.

And this is already happening. The Heavy Scyk title in the C-ROC has the added "+1 hull" text on it, but doesn't invalidate the old one, where the text is still suppose to take affect. The alt art Tactician has "Limited" text on it, but doesn't invalidate old printings of the original card.

We jumped the shark of what's suppose to be on the cards a long time ago.

10 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

I repeat it because you still make this strawman:

They can release reprints with the correct card text. The old cards that are already around can still be used, in exactly the same way as today. All of these cards use the same text and rules. The only difference is that one set of cards has it printed and the other one does not.

3 hours ago, SabineKey said:

And this is already happening. The Heavy Scyk title in the C-ROC has the added "+1 hull" text on it, but doesn't invalidate the old one, where the text is still suppose to take affect. The alt art Tactician has "Limited" text on it, but doesn't invalidate old printings of the original card.

We jumped the shark of what's suppose to be on the cards a long time ago.

THe cards can still be used for list building. The points and upgrade slots are still standard. So you can go ahead and burn that straw man.

1 minute ago, Marinealver said:

THe cards can still be used for list building. The points and upgrade slots are still standard. So you can go ahead and burn that straw man.

What? Nothing that we said meant you couldn't use old cards for list building. Quite the contrary, we're saying cards like original printings of Tactician can be fielded with no problem as long as the changes text is observed.

Now, would it be better to show the card to the TO to prove you have everything, then use a printout of the altered text for actual play time? I think so. But it isn't necessary. We've been dealing with this for a long time already. Believe me, I argued against altering text on cards for a very long time. But that Pandora's box has been wide open for awhile now. So, might as well press on since going back isn't an option.

Just now, SabineKey said:

What? Nothing that we said meant you couldn't use old cards for list building. Quite the contrary, we're saying cards like original printings of Tactician can be fielded with no problem as long as the changes text is observed.

Now, would it be better to show the card to the TO to prove you have everything, then use a printout of the altered text for actual play time? I think so. But it isn't necessary. We've been dealing with this for a long time already. Believe me, I argued against altering text on cards for a very long time. But that Pandora's box has been wide open for awhile now. So, might as well press on since going back isn't an option.

Now in their current form, yes that is exactly the only thing cards are good for is list building (besides still being a requirement for tournaments). And yes Pandora's box has been wide open. But some people are saying that the point value and even upgrade slots should be up for erratum as well. Again my argument is if they do that then FFG needs to make exceptions to the must have official cards for list building requirement. If point values on cards start becoming subject to change then FFG should do one or both of the following.

1. Accept fan/alt art pilot/upgrade cards in place of official cards if they have the correct erratum.
2. Accept a squadron list printout in place of pilot upgrade cards as long as the list contains all the up to date information and is verified.

Now I am not completely against point increases, I have made suggestions for increasing point cost of certain pilot and upgrade cards without having to pen & ink change them on the card. But some people are intent on treating this as if it were a digital game like Hearthstone or Star Craft.

10 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

Now in their current form, yes that is exactly the only thing cards are good for is list building (besides still being a requirement for tournaments). And yes Pandora's box has been wide open. But some people are saying that the point value and even upgrade slots should be up for erratum as well. Again my argument is if they do that then FFG needs to make exceptions to the must have official cards for list building requirement. If point values on cards start becoming subject to change then FFG should do one or both of the following.

1. Accept fan/alt art pilot/upgrade cards in place of official cards if they have the correct erratum.
2. Accept a squadron list printout in place of pilot upgrade cards as long as the list contains all the up to date information and is verified.

Now I am not completely against point increases, I have made suggestions for increasing point cost of certain pilot and upgrade cards without having to pen & ink change them on the card. But some people are intent on treating this as if it were a digital game like Hearthstone or Star Craft.

That's what I meant by moving forward. If Manaroo's ability doesn't read like it is suppose to be played, the loss of slots is just more of the same and actually has a positive benefit.

Now, I think this should be reserved for only the most troublesome of cards, but after about 4 nerfs designed to curb the Jumpmaster's abilities in someway, a hard rework of its capabilities seems earned to me.

Points increase is even more of a shady area for me, but it is also the easiest solution. Anything, including the Jumpmaster, can be balanced by an appropriate cost.

Both options should be kept as tools of last resort in my mind. But I also think that's where we are with the Jumpmaster. What's left to curb their continued dominance except going after the ship itself?

50 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

If point values on cards start becoming subject to change then FFG should do one or both of the following.

1. Accept fan/alt art pilot/upgrade cards in place of official cards if they have the correct erratum.
2. Accept a squadron list printout in place of pilot upgrade cards as long as the list contains all the up to date information and is verified.

While I personally agree, I also understand why they don't - that way you would not have to buy expansion packs for the cards.

But I fail to see why releasing official alt-art cards with correct text is ok while selling cardpacks with corrected text is not?

And how one bit of ink is different from another one, as long as only the card and not the cardboard is affected (which clearly IS a difference). So why is changing text ok, but changing points not?

3 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

While I personally agree, I also understand why they don't - that way you would not have to buy expansion packs for the cards.

But I fail to see why releasing official alt-art cards with correct text is ok while selling cardpacks with corrected text is not?

And how one bit of ink is different from another one, as long as only the card and not the cardboard is affected (which clearly IS a difference). So why is changing text ok, but changing points not?

Well, many people see nothing wrong with selling in-game microtransactions on a full retail priced video game. One of X-wing's biggest selling points is that it is very friendly on the consumer budget. While gameplay wise your solution may work, business wise I can see it biting the customers hands.

Just now, Marinealver said:

Well, many people see nothing wrong with selling in-game microtransactions on a full retail priced video game. One of X-wing's biggest selling points is that it is very friendly on the consumer budget. While gameplay wise your solution may work, business wise I can see it biting the customers hands.

The card pack I'm suggesting gives literally no advantage at all - it's pure cosmetics, and those microtransactions are something I can get behind. There is no pressure to buy them, so how would that bite the customers' hands?

It's exactly like the dial upgrade pack. Has no effect except that I like them way more to play.

3 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

The card pack I'm suggesting gives literally no advantage at all - it's pure cosmetics, and those microtransactions are something I can get behind. There is no pressure to buy them, so how would that bite the customers' hands?

It's exactly like the dial upgrade pack. Has no effect except that I like them way more to play.

As I said, many people see nothing wrong with it, I'm not one of those, and I already given my reasons.

1 minute ago, Marinealver said:

As I said, many people see nothing wrong with it, I'm not one of those, and I already given my reasons.

But you still didn't explain why it is bad and affects those who don't want to buy it. FFG won't include less skins as it could happen in computer games. So there's no disadvantage at all.

How does it affect you when I buy dial upgrades?
How does it affect you when I buy card text upgrades?

7 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

But you still didn't explain why it is bad and affects those who don't want to buy it. FFG won't include less skins as it could happen in computer games. So there's no disadvantage at all.

How does it affect you when I buy dial upgrades?
How does it affect you when I buy card text upgrades?

you know what, I am tired of repeating myself.

Just now, Marinealver said:

you know what, I am tired of repeating myself.

Just send me the link to the relevant posts. You never explained why it's bad as far as I've seen except by using strawmen on old cards that are not legal anymore - something nobody advocated anyway

15 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

Just send me the link to the relevant posts. You never explained why it's bad as far as I've seen except by using strawmen on old cards that are not legal anymore - something nobody advocated anyway

My take on why they don't release them is because this is a miniature game and they want to sell miniatures. Lots of fixes and nerfs are in things like Huge ships, and other unique packs. If they release them to be bought in a different pack, no one will have to buy the Huge ships or unique packs and their sales will drop. We don't know their production schedule, they might have already commissioned the packs that have the nerfs to be built. So they would lose money for sure, this way they don't. Do I like it no, but IMO that's why.

Now if they gave you a fixed card, when you sent them proof of purchase, that would be cool. But even this has problems, because what if they sent you a fixed card and then 3 months down the road they nerf something else too in the set that you sent them the proof of purchase already. they would have to maintain a master database of each proof of purchase they got and update accordingly.

On 8/12/2017 at 5:44 PM, Marinealver said:

X-wing is not a card game

also with more pilot and upgrades come more combinations, and more combinations means more builds that become broken Atanni mindlink wasn't anything at wave 8. Accuracy corrector were not an issue in wave 6. Bombs been around since wave 2 and only now are there cries to nerf them.

Card packs are not the X-wing business model. If you want card packs, go to destiny.

On 8/12/2017 at 6:11 PM, Joe Boss Red Seven said:

Yeah, but to be fair treating it like a video game is far worse than treating it like a card game. Leave it to FFG to make me regret ever trying to back their business practices for anything. They always manage to do something that makes me throw up my arms and say "I Give Up, you get this one, you cannot beat stupid anymore than you can beat a wall".