On 8/11/2017 at 7:25 PM, Julia said:12 years passing from 3rd to 4th edition. I'm pretty sure there's nothing around having the same price you were paying in 2005. And of course in general games are more expensive these days
More like ever since the merge with Asmodee...
Sorry FFG, not worth it.
If you think FFG's price hikes are bad, you should check out Games Workshop. When I started playing back in 05, the price of a box of 24 Tau Firewarriors cost $20. Now a box of 10 costs $60!!!!
$90 in 2005 is $115 in 2017. So there's that. Plus you're getting more components. The price seems fair. Bear in mind this is an epic boardgame and you're probably have this as a one-time purchase as opposed to a continually updated LCG or expanded boardgame.
20 hours ago, Archangelion said:If you think FFG's price hikes are bad, you should check out Games Workshop. When I started playing back in 05, the price of a box of 24 Tau Firewarriors cost $20. Now a box of 10 costs $60!!!!
While I'm a 40k fan, I avoid its miniatures game for this very reason. I'm not ready to put down my monthly paycheck for a game.
I get what you're saying, but trying to justify one overpriced product with another isn't a valid justification in my eyes. However, as other people pointed out, you get the expansions as well.
The only remaining issue I have with this, is that it also puts the entry cost level into the game very high. I know plenty of people where TI ended up as a shelf warmer because they couldn't find the right group, or the game wasn't what they expected. FFG basically forces you to buy everything from the getgo. Interesting new marketing strategy...
Edited by Gridash21 hours ago, Network57 said:$90 in 2005 is $115 in 2017. So there's that. Plus you're getting more components. The price seems fair. Bear in mind this is an epic boardgame and you're probably have this as a one-time purchase as opposed to a continually updated LCG or expanded boardgame.
Ofcourse, you're only looking at the official prices of FFG themselves. With the whole Asmodee merge, online retailers aren't allowed to sell at big discounts anymore. In the end it's all bad for the consumer, and it's arguably not even that beneficial for FLGSs.
For me and others, this hobby is becoming way too expensive. It used to be the cheap alternative to computer games.
Now with steam sales, you can get A LOT of computer games for $150. Imagine how many hours you'll get to enjoy that...
I know it was a bit of criticism on my part. The road that FFG is taking right now irks me. I always liked FFG's games before, but they are becoming too expensive. I see a Games Workshop 2.0 in the making.
Anyway, enjoy the game!
If you really spent that much time playing this game, it must be at least worth it for you.
On 11-8-2017 at 7:29 PM, Braneric said:It doesn't include everything from the expansions, just the most important things like races (seriously did anyone use mines, mercenaries or leaders?)
Yes, we use them all. And mechanized units, we will miss those if only because they look cool. The only thing I won't miss are the representatives. That mechanic slows the game down immensely.
I think the price is just fine for a game of this magnitude.
Edited by Phil_Fantus35 minutes ago, Phil_Fantus said:The only thing I won't miss are the representatives. That mechanic slows the game down immensely.
They slowed the game down slightly, but made the weak, boring political aspect much more interesting, so we always used representatives.
Mechanized units may not be included, but I can't imagine there would be any difficulty in just adding them in.
Mechanized units may even be a tech upgrade for your ground forces now for all we know.
On 13.08.2017 at 3:31 PM, Archangelion said:If you think FFG's price hikes are bad, you should check out Games Workshop. When I started playing back in 05, the price of a box of 24 Tau Firewarriors cost $20. Now a box of 10 costs $60!!!!
Fire Warriors were never 24 to a box. The previous set was 12 Fire Warriors and two drones, released in 2001. The cheapest it's ever been was 15 quid on release day, so roughly 25$ in GW exchange rates. The new box is not 60$, it is 50$ and contains 10 Fire Warriors, two drones and a heavy weapons turret. It was released in 2015 and features more components, more customizability and markedly improved design, mould and cast quality compared to the old kit, which was 35$ at the time the new box was released. I know it's cool and trendy to rag on GW on the internet at every opportunity, but you could at least do everyone the courtesy of getting your facts straight before you start doing that.
As for TI, the original game was released 12 years ago. A lot has happened economically in those 12 years. A major contributing factor of FFG doing a 4th edition is without a doubt the fact that simply reprinting 3rd (and its expansions) in its current state at its current price is simply not feasible any more. That's why we're getting only a relatively minor cleanup of the rules compared to other game lines' subsequent editions - this is essentially a reprint necessitated by current economics that is being given a graphics overhaul and spin doctored into a new edition. Mind you, I'm not complaining, I never owned TI despite enjoying a weekend playing it here and there, so I am the perfect target consumer for 4th and I'll probably pull the trigger on it.
Edited by player17500311 hour ago, player1750031 said:Fire Warriors were never 24 to a box. The previous set was 12 Fire Warriors and two drones, released in 2001. The cheapest it's ever been was 15 quid on release day, so roughly 25$ in GW exchange rates. The new box is not 60$, it is 50$ and contains 10 Fire Warriors, two drones and a heavy weapons turret. It was released in 2015 and features more components, more customizability and markedly improved design, mould and cast quality compared to the old kit, which was 35$ at the time the new box was released. I know it's cool and trendy to rag on GW on the internet at every opportunity, but you could at least do everyone the courtesy of getting your facts straight before you start doing that.
As for TI, the original game was released 12 years ago. A lot has happened economically in those 12 years. A major contributing factor of FFG doing a 4th edition is without a doubt the fact that simply reprinting 3rd (and its expansions) in its current state at its current price is simply not feasible any more. That's why we're getting only a relatively minor cleanup of the rules compared to other game lines' subsequent editions - this is essentially a reprint necessitated by current economics that is being given a graphics overhaul and spin doctored into a new edition. Mind you, I'm not complaining, I never owned TI despite enjoying a weekend playing it here and there, so I am the perfect target consumer for 4th and I'll probably pull the trigger on it.
12 Not 24. Yes. I forgot. You could get 2 squads of 6, not 2 full squads. My bad on that front. But I'm Canadian, so yes it is $60 up here, and that's right on their website if you want to check it out. The old box also came with gun drones, two of them IIRC. I understand that the models are better molds and they are more customizable, but at the end of the day I can't afford forking out that much cash for a game. That's why I got out of it. That and the fact that they release a new core rulebook so often. Financially I just couldn't justify playing the game any longer. But that's me. I'm not saying other people shouldn't play. But they DID hike their prices up quite a bit.
On 8/11/2017 at 9:56 AM, BillyBabel said:Pretty obviously it's because it contains all the stuff from 3 full expansions.
It doesn't include everything from the 3rd expansions, but it does include all the factions from 3rd edition to include expansion (minus the Lazax faction for Fall of the Empire scenario). As well as other items from the other two expansions, Gravity rifts from Shattered Empire and Promissory notes and flagships from Shards of the Throne. However it is missing modules from all three 3rd edition products such as heroes from core, shock troops from Shattered Empire, and Representatives from Shards of the Throne.
On 17/8/2017 at 8:23 AM, Marinealver said:However it is missing modules from all three 3rd edition products such as heroes from core, shock troops from Shattered Empire, and Representatives from Shards of the Throne.
They will be likely included in the first TI4 expansion with 2 more set of miniatures (still miss the 8 players game) and maybe 3 more brand new races.
2 hours ago, Pretorian said:They will be likely included in the first TI4 expansion with 2 more set of miniatures (still miss the 8 players game) and maybe 3 more brand new races.
New races would be a huge pull for me!
20 hours ago, Archangelion said:New races would be a huge pull for me!
For me too.
On 18-8-2017 at 8:30 PM, Pretorian said:They will be likely included in the first TI4 expansion with 2 more set of miniatures (still miss the 8 players game) and maybe 3 more brand new races.
More different types of units, that's what I'd like. What better way to really immerse yourself in the game than with more plastic? Mechanized units, mecha, corvettes, orbitals, leaders, just to name a few ideas. I often missed the leaders in TI3 because of the clutter of units in a hex, so I'd prefer miniatures.
But you have to find a function for each of those units that enhances the game. Just adding more units for the sake of more units just clutters things, makes the game more complicated and harder to teach, and exponentially increases the likelihood of seriously broken combinations.
It’s just par for the course these days. Especially now that they have impleted a MAP policy (which pretty much everyone else is doing, see: https://icv2.com/articles/news/view/37790/asmodee-north-america-moves-map ). MAP policies are generally just a way to keep prices for goods artificially high. Asmodee is majority owned (80%) by Eurazeo who’s stated purpose (as explained on their website here: https://www.eurazeo.com/en/company/identity/vision/ ) is to target companies in niche markets and grow them by merging them with other companies in the same market segment until such time that they are deemed ready to be sold off (“exit”). So the fact that the price of FFGs games are rising faster than the rate of inflation is no surprise. It’s all part of the strategy to extract maximum profits while they still can. And we are also starting to see a drop in value of FFG games (such as the amount of content you get in a box these days...yes, looking at you Mansions of Madness 2nd ed.) vs their MSRP. But as long as customers are still willing to pay the price that ANA/FFG (and other publishers) set for their products they are of course going to keep pushing the price envelope upward for as long as the market will bear (and then some).
For those who are defending ANA/FFGs continual price increases, I do have to ask, at what point would you consider a price “too high” vs the value of what you get from the product? In the case of TI 4th edition, would it be $175? $200? $250? More? I get that some people will place more value in a given game than another based on now much enjoyment they get from playing it, but if we look at just the physical content in the box alone, at want point would the price top out before it wasn’t worth the purchase?
Edited by Otakuon3 hours ago, Otakuon said:It’s just par for the course these days. Especially now that they have impleted a MAP policy (which pretty much everyone else is doing, see: https://icv2.com/articles/news/view/37790/asmodee-north-america-moves-map ). MAP policies are generally just a way to keep prices for goods artificially high. Asmodee is majority owned (80%) by Eurazeo who’s stated purpose (as explained on their website here: https://www.eurazeo.com/en/company/identity/vision/ ) is to target companies in niche markets and grow them by merging them with other companies in the same market segment until such time that they are deemed ready to be sold off (“exit”). So the fact that the price of FFGs games are rising faster than the rate of inflation is no surprise. It’s all part of the strategy to extract maximum profits while they still can. And we are also starting to see a drop in value of FFG games (such as the amount of content you get in a box these days...yes, looking at you Mansions of Madness 2nd ed.) vs their MSRP. But as long as customers are still willing to pay the price that ANA/FFG (and other publishers) set for their products they are of course going to keep pushing the price envelope upward for as long as the market will bear (and then some).
For those who are defending ANA/FFGs continual price increases, I do have to ask, at what point would you consider a price “too high” vs the value of what you get from the product? In the case of TI 4th edition, would it be $175? $200? $250? More? I get that some people will place more value in a given game than another based on now much enjoyment they get from playing it, but if we look at just the physical content in the box alone, at want point would the price top out before it wasn’t worth the purchase?
I think that's a fair assessment and a fair question. In the end however it comes down to disposable incomes, demand and supply and everything else that goes into the workings of economics. They will raise the price until people start throttling back purchases at which point they will start lowering prices, trying to provide more value or creating other ways to entice us to spend whatever our budgets are.
Suffice to say as long as they can predict what we will buy and for how much, the current practice won't change.
For me personally this price is at the absolute highest limit for a board game though at this point I'm committed to buying it, but in the end I think FFG will lose on this deal because for me buying this game has determined a few things for me.
1. I will not collect X-Wing anymore
2. I will not be getting into Legion
This is really bad for them because X-Wing and Legion would probably be better money makers for them. They are going to collect 150 bucks one time.. at which point our business is concluded.. With X-Wing and Legion I would definitely be buying something new every month and the average spending on a collectable game each month far exceeds 150 bucks for me.
Every one of us does our budget and determines what to get into and ultimately what to get out of, usually driven by personal preferences and you own sort of style of decision making. I personally think they made a mistake with TI4, as much as it pains me to say. Really this is a "revised" 3rd edition rather than being a truly new game. They would have been better off putting out an expansion for TI3 with some new races and content, perhaps a 2.0 rulebook and adapted changes that they included in TI4. That would have had no impact on my budget considerations, I would have just bought it and continued with my plans to get X-Wing stuff and Legion... but with this they kind of tipped the scale.
But as far as I'm concerned me and FFG are always good. They do there thing and I do mine, if they fire on the right pistons they get my money, if they don't they don't. Its really as simple as that.
On 8/11/2017 at 6:27 PM, Forgottenlore said:No, definitely new sculpts. While the basic design is the same, if you look closely you can see some significant differences.
Can confirm, I got a copy at Gen Con. The new plastic models are exquisite!
14 hours ago, BigKahuna said:I think that's a fair assessment and a fair question. In the end however it comes down to disposable incomes, demand and supply and everything else that goes into the workings of economics.
...
For me personally this price is at the absolute highest limit for a board game though at this point I'm committed to buying it, but in the end I think FFG will lose on this deal because for me buying this game has determined a few things for me.
This is pretty much where I am at. At this point, I am really looking at only purchasing expansions as they are cheaper (although barely) and expand the products I have already bought into. I have pretty much passed on all the major core products this year and that will probably be the case for the rest of this year and the foreseeable future.
120 at Miniature Market, includes free shipping.