Sad Times
Looking for scum nym without dengar and haven't seen any in the top 17
Like I've always said, curtailing dengar curtails nym
Finally, an angsty meta thread.
Just now, Sekac said:Finally, an angsty meta thread.
Yeah, we haven't had one of those in a while!
Am i not refreshing right or do i see imp lists at 4 and 6.....
6 minutes ago, Ralgon said:Am i not refreshing right or do i see imp lists at 4 and 6.....
Must not be refreshing correctly. First Imp list is at 11.
24 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:Looking for scum nym without dengar and haven't seen any in the top 17
Like I've always said, curtailing dengar curtails nym
When you're right, you're right.
On the plus side, this is the highest I've seen Darth Vader in a while (I think).
Edited by WAC47IMPS are just about AWESOME!!!
AWESOME DAM YOU AWESOME!!!
STOP BEING LAZY!!!
What are you talking about? I see TIE fighters in the top 4...
Imperial is too Op if you play correctly ! You need more brain that all !
*hide quickly*
2 minutes ago, Jehan Menasis said:What are you talking about? I see TIE fighters in the top 4...
DIE
13 minutes ago, WAC47 said:When you're right, you're right.
On the plus side, this is the highest I've seen Darth Vader in a while (I think).
Vader is back. No engine, just jousting hard.
Although imperials aren't showing up in the top 10, I think they have the best tools to combat FSR2. The issue then becomes surviving the other stuff...
Waaaa!!
Okay. This is the point where I give up. I just genuinely don't get what the heck is going on around here. Let me sum it up:
- Someone I've never met and probably never will, came up with a list of 4 rebel ships that mitigate damage. Others might use this list too.
- Someone I've never met and probably never will, came up with a list of 3 jumpmasters that shoot torpedoes. Others might use this list too.
- A lot of people don't play as many Imperials in tournaments because certain other lists with other factions are easier to win with.
- Some graphs or whatever zig when it should zag. Or the other way around.
And now the forum is like: "Waaa!" "Sad times!" "The game's in a bad state!" "The end is nigh!" "The economy, fools!" "I'm quitting the game forever and throwing my collection on a bonfire."
Someone please make an attempt to explain me why can't this game be enjoyed anymore because someone flies or says something that someone doesn't like for whatever reason.
Call me dumb, but I just don't get it.
Edited by Captain PellaeonIt's because there are only 2 ways to play this game:
1) My way
2) The wrong way
Then scream until everyone understands that.
1 hour ago, Captain Pellaeon said:Call me dumb, but I just don't get it.
Ok, I'll break it down for you, and were the disconnect is.
1 hour ago, Captain Pellaeon said:Okay. This is the point where I give up. I just genuinely don't get what the heck is going on around here. Let me sum it up:
- Someone I've never met and probably never will, came up with...
- Someone I've never met and probably never will, came up with...
- A lot of people don't play as many Imperials in tournaments* because...
- Some graphs or whatever zig when it should zag. Or the other way around...
tl;dr: If you do not play in larger tournaments, there is no reason for you to be freaking out , game on and be happy, except that unbalance at the larger scale could negatively impact the game over-all. You may never know the ailment that killed your game, should it progress that far.
Longer explanation:
Those people you never met, and probably never will, the people screaming will meet them, as they are people that play in the larger tournaments (*see above) that will involve people from all over the place all getting together and playing; not just your local scene which is where you may never meet them. The more powerful of the lists in game will bubble to the top and show up here, and people will play against them multiple times in a tournament.
If you play in larger tournaments, you will meet them .
The graphs are just data points to lend weight to peoples' hypothesis that certain lists and/or certain ships are more powerful in other in a manner that unbalances the game.
If a game stays unbalanced, it may lose the competitive player base as they go looking for more balanced games to butt heads in ways they find fair, which means less success, money, and future development of the game. Less money into the game eventually will affect your game, as development slow, and maybe even stops. Sure, you can still keep flying what's there, its not like they are going to show up and take your ships away, but if the game fails, no more development.
Edited by kris40k1 minute ago, kris40k said:
Ok, I'll break it down for you, and were the disconnect is.tl;dr: If you do not play in larger tournaments, there is no reason for you to be freaking out , game on and be happy, except that unbalance at the larger scale could negatively impact the game over-all. You may never know the ailment that killed your game, should it progress that far.
Longer explanation:
Those people you never met, and probably never will, the people screaming will meet them, as they are people that play in the larger tournaments (*see above) that will involve people from all over the place all getting together and playing. The more powerful of the lists in game will bubble to the top and show up here, and people will play against them multiple times in a tournament. Not just your local scene which is where you may never meet them.
If you play in larger tournaments, you will meet them .
The graphs are just data points to lend weight to peoples' hypothesis that certain lists and/or certain ships are more powerful in other in a manner that unbalances the game.
If a game stays unbalanced, it may lose the competitive player base as they go looking for more balanced games to butt heads in ways they find fair, which means less success, money, and future development of the game.
Okay, you at least took your time. I appreciate that, thanks man. Tho you did make me ask a question or two more.
You say the game currently isn't balanced. But when was it? I recall people booing at Fat Han, Soontir, Whisper, K-Wings, Defenders, Palp aces, Parattanni.
If the game was never properly balanced, why are nowadays so different?
The game itself constantly changes, partially beacuse every year we get a new movie, which means more material to play with. Is a few months of... "uncomfortable" or "borderline NPA meta at times", really worth considering quitting the game altogether? Because the game never stays the same for more than... 5-6 months? Maybe less?
What concerns me even more than the balance problems the game evidently has is the increasingly polarised nature of the community that bears a worrying resemblence to GW game forums prior to 8th edition 40k - an increase in 'militant casuals' who will not accept there is any truth to complaints and suggest that those that make them should leave or quit. The result is a steady decrease in players and damage to the health of the game. 40k nearly died off because of it. Im sure no one wants X-Wing to go the same way but if proper recognition and discussion of clear problems continues to be suppressed under the 'Fly Casual' umbrella then it will.
28 minutes ago, Captain Pellaeon said:Okay, you at least took your time. I appreciate that, thanks man. Tho you did make me ask a question or two more.
You say the game currently isn't balanced. But when was it? I recall people booing at Fat Han , Soontir , Whisper , K-Wings, Defenders, Palp aces, Parattanni.If the game was never properly balanced, why are nowadays so different?
The game itself constantly changes, partially beacuse every year we get a new movie, which means more material to play with. Is a few months of... "uncomfortable" or "borderline NPA meta at times", really worth considering quitting the game altogether? Because the game never stays the same for more than... 5-6 months? Maybe less?
"If the game was never properly balanced, why are nowadays so different?" <-- This is not a good thing
May nowadays things are different because people are finally sick of it and throwing in the towel. In this case, we are hearing it from the megafans with audiences. We are hearing it from players from the top of the competitive scene. We are hearing it from those that spend their free time and love producing fan-made podcasts and other content. We are hearing about it more and more because while there were likely people that left without loud exits, that the game was unbalanced did not go unnoticed by those that remained. They noticed. Perhaps they had hope that "FFG will figure it out, give them some time" and they pushed on pushing ships around. New people came, and old people left, and FFG tried to balance the game. Fat Han got nerfed. Schrodinger's Whisper got nerfed. Soontir and Palp Aces? Nerfed. Defenders, nerfed. K-Wing and Parattanni (attanni overall) are now on the chopping block with the leaked info, and the meta has already moved on to the new wave and the broke *** **** that was added there.
Maybe its a thing now, because while people were willing to give FFG 2-3 years to straighten their stuff out, after 4-5 years, people have had enough.
Also, (speaking from a personal point of view):
The March FAQ really pissed off some people, most notably Imp players. The heavy-handedness of the nerfs just completely blew Imps off of the tables in the competitive scene for a while (until people recovered with Quickdraw getting played more). It was this highly artificial nerf approach that just leveled Imps instantly, taking away their two most powerful options (x7 Defenders and Old Palp) overnight. I'm not saying they weren't OP, but when just one faction gets their legs ripped off- leaving the other two standing- that makes people mad . Couple the FAQ with multiple powerful releases for both Scum and Rebels- and you start to get a lot of bitter, angry people. But hey I guess that's what FFG wanted, they wrote the FAQ after all.
Man if you just fly the errated x7s you'll see that the effect of the errata was stupidly exaggerated
And you can still exploit Palp with lwf sfs which, turns out, are still really good
Course, they're not as stupid anymore as jumps, but goddamn people are WAY too quick to throw in the towel
Not to mention the faq literally killed dengaroo entirely by literally infinetly nerfing Manny's range but sadly the jm5k was just too busted even without manny
Edited by ficklegreendice30 minutes ago, Johen Dood said:Also, (speaking from a personal point of view):
The March FAQ really pissed off some people, most notably Imp players. The heavy-handedness of the nerfs just completely blew Imps off of the tables in the competitive scene for a while (until people recovered with Quickdraw getting played more). It was this highly artificial nerf approach that just leveled Imps instantly, taking away their two most powerful options (x7 Defenders and Old Palp) overnight. I'm not saying they weren't OP, but when just one faction gets their legs ripped off- leaving the other two standing- that makes people mad . Couple the FAQ with multiple powerful releases for both Scum and Rebels- and you start to get a lot of bitter, angry people. But hey I guess that's what FFG wanted, they wrote the FAQ after all.
The "Scum & Rebel only" upgrades were the icing on the $***-cake flying at imperial faces.
technically even from the get-go the game wasnt balanced
8 TIE Fighters would wreck 3-4 xwings any day barring some insane luck.
47 minutes ago, Johen Dood said:The March FAQ really pissed off some people, most notably Imp players. The heavy-handedness of the nerfs just completely blew Imps off of the tables in the competitive scene for a while (until people recovered with Quickdraw getting played more). It was this highly artificial nerf approach that just leveled Imps instantly, taking away their two most powerful options (x7 Defenders and Old Palp) overnight.
Interesting. My experience locally -- and I saw it more widely, though second-hand and thus less reliably -- is that Imperial players thought the Palpatine and x7 nerfs leveled them ... so they simply stopped playing them without even testing the nerfed versions. Until, of course, some of them started playing them again, and found the nerfs to be pretty reasonable, and Imperials still capable of competing (just not dominating).
Now, for the record, I personally believe the Palp nerf was not strictly needed, but the nerfed version is playable, and that the x7 nerf is really weird (especially in combination with the bizarre ruling that a template overlap counts as a general overlap, and denies the evade token), but still playable.
From my perspective, this was a "perception erases reality" situation for a while. It's the first time I'd seen so starkly in X-Wing, and it was interesting. (Similar situations have occurred often with a "DOA" ship or upgrade that later turns out to not have been DOA after all, but it's conceptually different.)