So I've seen a LOT of doom and gloom about where X Wing is right now from podcasters to forum posters to a few local guys I know. However, I look at current "meta" lists and I see flaws in all of them (or at least all very beatable). And talk about list options! It's fantastic! Imperials get a lot of grief of not having enough toys, but Palp with Light Weight Frame is still incredibly powerful, Strikers are a blast, and SFs are just beasts, not to mention Kylo crew. Rebels have several really fun aces to fly (i.e. Dash, Intensity Poe, Miranda, Corran) not to mention the multiple Biggs lists (I've gone from hating Biggs to realizing he's very beatable). Scum has more options right now IMHO (i.e. the endless Mindlink lists, Jumps, Nym), but just because there are more options doesn't mean any of them can't be beaten. Sure there are some really hard match ups for certain lists, but I love the rock paper scissor element the game seems to be at right now. Over the years, I've seen time and time again a "new" list hit the scene and because people don't know how to fly against it at first because they've never seen it, they cry "NERF THIS" and "NERF THAT"!!! I think what I like most about where the game is right now is I really believe it rewards good flying more than ever. Now when I say good flying, I don't necessarily mean on the fly flying (a-la the Push Soontir of long ago...). As fun as that was, I LOVE that X Wing feels more like Space Chess right now in that planning out moves and range controlling is such a big deal. I've seen people complain against Cruise Missiles crying that a 5 dice missile shot is stupid. Well I'm sorry, but if you walk into a 5 dice missile shot, you deserve to get shot by it. Yes, the mantra "Fly Better" may be over used, but I've found in all of my recent games, dice played a part in wins and losses a bit, but I can point to specific planning or poor planning on my end as bigger culprits of a W or L. I still love this game and I gotta say, the options available make me excited for where the game is headed. Quite the opposite of the cry for a 2.0 X Wing. This was all over the place, so thanks for sticking it out this far. May the Force be with You!

You're crazy. Palp is dead. LWF is good on certain ships yes, but a 2pt upgrade does not a faction make.

Also cruiser missiles are good. but obvious power creep.

2 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

You're crazy. Palp is dead. LWF is good on certain ships yes, but a 2pt upgrade does not a faction make.

Also cruiser missiles are good. but obvious power creep.

Palp has won several store tourneys with Strikers or TIE/SFs as support. Yes LWF seems to be the commonality when using Palp, but he is far from dead (at least in the game). And not every successful Imperial list has Palp anyway. And Cruise missiles being power creep? Maybe? But again, if it can be range controlled against, it's very hard to get off. And even then, the best I've seen is a 4 dice attack making it a slightly less good homing missile. I think 3 points is appropriate.

I agree with a lot of the above. However, as many times on the forum, this post was a bit black and whitish.

I love the game, i think it is in a good spot, but I still believe if some elements of it like jumpmasters, miranda and some of the notorious others would be turned down a notch.

And I would like it if iconic stuff like luke, wedge, bwings, awings, tie ints, tie/lns, vader, tie bombers would see more table time.

Just now, MaxPower said:

I agree with a lot of the above. However, as many times on the forum, this post was a bit black and whitish.

I love the game, i think it is in a good spot, but I still believe if some elements of it like jumpmasters, miranda and some of the notorious others would be turned down a notch.

And I would like it if iconic stuff like luke, wedge, bwings, awings, tie ints, tie/lns, vader, tie bombers would see more table time.

And that's a fair assessment. I also would love to see iconic stuff make a resurgence in competitive play. My post was mostly to counter the countless doom and gloom I see/hear.

You're not the only one @Dymond Kyng. It'll be interesting to see where the game's at after GenCon and the North American championships.

A small percentage of the player base has always been making themselves miserable at the tourney scene, bashing themselves against the most broken stuff.

The majority play with their mates, with beer and some tunes.

To quote a famously wise man, XWing is a fun game. Right?

More than anything what makes me the most happy is thinking about how this "type of game genre" has a definite future. The core gameplay loop is so **** good and so popular that i think we can be sure there were always be something like it to fly over the next bunch of years. Maybe one day if FFG really goes off the rails and turn this completely into Risk ill have to go back to endlessly replaying Tie-Fighter.

If it's any indication: I have 15 lists I want to try. The game has more variation in ok-lists than it had for a long time, maybe more than ever. I think it's certainly better than the past year. But there are also NPE lists like never before. So the way I understand the doom&gloom: it's not about the current state, that is more or less fine, with apparently 5 squads as exceptions (thanks SOTL for the graphs!). But way more concerning is the direction we're headed. Add in the lack of communication or possibility to provide feedback and it's easy to see why the last weeks have been so tumultuous.

The other point to consider is that the game started to draw in different people. I don't mean that in any normative way but it's noticeable. The jousting and arcdodging got replaced by alphastrike, bombs, autodamage and hypermobility.

The tendency is that older players dislike the change while newer player who were primed by this environment naturally like it. Both are ok, but the game feels also different.

2 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

The tendency is that older players dislike the change while newer player who were primed by this environment naturally like it. Both are ok, but the game feels also different.

...and yet the older players actively clamoured for these changes. Right here, on these very forums.

"Make ordnance viable! Bombs are useless! Buff this! Fix that!"

Maybe the moral should be: be careful what you wish for.

3 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

...and yet the older players actively clamoured for these changes. Right here, on these very forums.

"Make ordnance viable! Bombs are useless! Buff this! Fix that!"

Maybe the moral should be: be careful what you wish for.

Well it wasn't much more homogeneous than it is now. Maybe they like it, maybe they don't - and those might have learnt a lesson.

But you can ask 100 players and get 101 different opinions. Who am I kidding, probably 101 each!

Your crazy

Overall, I agree with the OP's sentiment.

Instead of Rock, Paper, Scissors, I'd prefer to have the game be more Rock, Paper, Lizard, Scissors, Spock. I'm not trying to be cute or make a joke.

There's at least more variation there and IF X-wing is Rock, Paper, Scissors, then 1/3 of the time you're bound to bump into a hard counter to your list that you can't do anything about.

Anywhoo, if you listen to the naysayers on podcasts, in forums, etc. it just becomes a self-sustaining feedback loop of negativity. Turn that noise off and enjoy the game in whatever flavor you prefer.

Palp is most certainly not dead. Combined with Quickdraw with lightweight frame and Sensor Cluster, QD only will take damage when you want to take a revenge shot. Duncan Howard has won two store championships in the NOVA region using this combo, and I would not be surprised to see him take it to Nova Open in a few weeks.

I'm with you ... I started playing right about a year ago. I love flying all the ships and playing all the forms of xwing. I play 100/6 with some people, I play epics and missions and have a recurring weekend HotAC campaign. It's all good.

Are there things that annoy me? Sure. But I'm mostly over here just having fun.

2 hours ago, Dymond Kyng said:

...but I love the rock paper scissor element the game seems to be at right now.

If you think a meta where lists have matchups that are autowins and autolosses is a good thing, then yes, I would be inclined to call you crazy. Well, maybe not crazy, but you and I have fundamentally very different views on the game.

I am of the opinion that your flying skills should win you games, not whether or not your list is the rock to your opponent's scissor.

8 minutes ago, MrAndersson said:

If you think a meta where lists have matchups that are autowins and autolosses is a good thing, then yes, I would be inclined to call you crazy. Well, maybe not crazy, but you and I have fundamentally very different views on the game.

I am of the opinion that your flying skills should win you games, not whether or not your list is the rock to your opponent's scissor.

I second this. Yes, there's still a ton of RPS going on. But I feel like it used to be when rock faced paper, he had a 35-40% chance to win... the match up favored one side, but it was still anyone's game (heck, even look at the hoth open 2016 where Rinehart had to go against palp aces 3 times with his triple jumps to win... his skill outdid the matchup). But now I feel like if rock comes up against paper, it's more like a 20% chance to win. And when you're in round 5+, every. single. person is highly skilled. You can no longer rely on capitalizing on the other's mistakes as there won't be any. This is my biggest complaint with X wing right now... not that it's still RPS, or that certain lists are much stronger, or even power creep... it's that it feels like the list match up is a crucial portion of how far you go in the tourney, and you don't have any control over that. I should fear the player across from me, not the list he's bringing.

I love the game; twelve waves in and so many options, builds, and pilots/options I haven't even tried. Sure, the meta may be flexing a certain direction now, but it has shifted numerous times throughout the life of the game and people forget this, crying wolf at every list that bares its teeth until the next wave or FAQ.

I like coming to the forums to check in on news, opinions, and more specifically, repaints/mods, but really the constant brain hemorrhaging over nerfs/fixes by doomsayers is the most asinine part of the game... and this is coming from a forty-year old who makes spaceship noises when I move my ships on the table.

I'm really good at TIEs, X-wings, and YT engines, you should hear it.

You're crazy

What kind of insane bastard replaces "I"s with "y"s!?

A lot of cry babies on this forum. Been playing for years, still having fun. If your not having fun, move on.

Crazy.

Competetively there should be much doom and gloom but it's all bright and shiny with buds, suds, and x-wing.

I don't remember what wave I started playing but with every wave there has been the sky is falling group. They only time I was legitimately worried was the Phantom meta, but FFG recognized the issue and came up with a very elegant fix. Even as a casual player that ship was broken.

I've never been on the Biggs is broken train. He's good, but without him there is a good chance that the most of the rebel faction would never see the board.

I think deadeye jump masters were broken, not to the extent of the Phantom, but that got fixed. I haven't played with or against mind link or FSR so I can't comment on those but I trust the designers to make the corrections necessary.

The doom and gloom brigade get a lot of airtime; perhaps they have figured people want to have their worst fears confirmed? I guess that's why I don't bother with many podcasts lol.

The game is fun. If you disagree with this it might not be the game for you, and that's cool. Just stop torturing yourself with a game you aren't enjoying, and stop torturing us by having to listen to the endless stream of whines about NPE and how it's evil that you might have to adapt to new ships/combos...

Good post, OP

2 hours ago, Khyros said:

I second this. Yes, there's still a ton of RPS going on. But I feel like it used to be when rock faced paper, he had a 35-40% chance to win... the match up favored one side, but it was still anyone's game (heck, even look at the hoth open 2016 where Rinehart had to go against palp aces 3 times with his triple jumps to win... his skill outdid the matchup). But now I feel like if rock comes up against paper, it's more like a 20% chance to win. And when you're in round 5+, every. single. person is highly skilled. You can no longer rely on capitalizing on the other's mistakes as there won't be any. This is my biggest complaint with X wing right now... not that it's still RPS, or that certain lists are much stronger, or even power creep... it's that it feels like the list match up is a crucial portion of how far you go in the tourney, and you don't have any control over that. I should fear the player across from me, not the list he's bringing.

I don't know who you are playing but I 100% fear my opponent. I know the people locally who are good pilots and that's who I loose to not the list.

If you are loosing to weaker pilots it's because either they are not as weak as you think they are or you are not as good as you think you are.

If I see a meta list flown by someone I rutinly beat I am not worried at all, however if I see an opponent I have struggled against before pull out some janky list I get a bit worried.

Maybe it's not the game, maybe it's you.

And if a good player plays meta list he/she will be good with that as well. I am not saying some lists don't preform better then others I am saying the player playing the list is way more important then the list.

Note: that being said there are some things on the other side of the board I like to see because I have a great history of destroying them (ghost, decimator, Biggs, any 2 ship list). No matter who is flying them, but good players can still beat me with them on occasion.

I got into the game late (I think just after Wave 9 dropped) and I love playing this game when I can find the time (**** job sucking up all my energy and X-Wing time!). is the game perfect? Of course not. Is it fun for me and those I play with? Yes, and I'll continue to play until I don't find it enjoyable anymore... but I'll still probably buy a few ships since they're pretty little things...

Honestly, I think the only thing that would make me quit the game is if they came out with a new torpedo called Lightsaber Ewok which would fire forward and corkscrew through any ship resulting in a one hit kill.