The card depicted on the OP could be a pre-final printing. ? (thus, it might have changed a bit.... secondly, since the card had to be a Conflict card, an Influence rating had to be assigned) ???

Stronghold that allows mixed clan dynasty decks? Probably with drawback on the stronghold, or limits to which dynasty cards can be included.

8 minutes ago, Brekekekiwi said:

Stronghold that allows mixed clan dynasty decks? Probably with drawback on the stronghold, or limits to which dynasty cards can be included.

Or you could easily have dynasty cards with text that allows them to be considered "in-clan" for specific clans, or neutral.

Well, the rules reference imply that could be some cards that have more than one clan symbol. I think it would be thematically fitting to have some double clan-cards for Scorpion (i.e. a Lion-Scorpion courtier card, with both mons printed). After all, it's well known that the Scorpion Clan have double agents infiltrated in every other clan. That way, Ambush could serve for those cards.

4 hours ago, Casanunda said:

I'm of the opposite opinion; if you want to make a powerful and iconic card such as this one, make it clan-specific in some way. Otherwise, what you'll see is a broken card being played by everyone and the faction who has it just has an "influence discount". This happened in Netrunner with NUMEROUS cards, with examples being Jackson Howard and the anarch breaker suite, just off the top of my head. It ends up making the factions feel less unique if you can play that factions power cards in any deck. I don't think it's bad design by any means, it just makes this card feel Scorpion-y. The effect does seem pretty awesome.

I disagree. It is a needless limitation for deckbuilding and it halts creativity.

The examples you gave could be easily evaded if only both of these(broken) cards were printed with max influence of five instead of one and two respectively. This is why I said it would be better if unicorn and scorpion cards were just 3 influence. Than it would be a decision at least - do I want to sacrifice my whole splash for the set of this 1 card? Maybe if I am playing an especially nieche deck. Otherwise probably not.

With the cards printed as they are there is no question - you just don't include them out of clan period. Unless FFG will print hordes of multifaction scorpion/cavalry characters which I doubt they will do(maybe there is a slight possibility of a stronghold with a large amount of influence - 20 for example, than it would have some use).

edit: Also none of these two straight up break the rules of the game, like faust and howard did

14 minutes ago, BordOne said:

I disagree. It is a needless limitation for deckbuilding and it halts creativity.

Having clans limits creativity, so why not just allow everyone to play any card?

1 minute ago, Laurence J Sinclair said:

Having clans limits creativity, so why not just allow everyone to play any card?

I like the way you think! We'll call it..."We're All In This Together" Casual Play.

23 minutes ago, Laurence J Sinclair said:

Having clans limits creativity, so why not just allow everyone to play any card?

Please don't strawman me. The conflict cards are supposed to be splashable, being locked to infaction only makes them useless for that purpose. And these effects while potent do not seem to be op, hence there is even less of an incentive to limit them.

So while your "argument" might work in the roles discussion(which are not supposed to be a part of deckbuilding), it doesn't belong here.

25 minutes ago, BordOne said:

Please don't strawman me.

They weren't strawmanning you. They were using reductio ad absurdum to show the silly endstate of your argument taken to the final conclusion. A straw man is arguing against a position your opponent never actually took.

Restrictions, by the way, increase creativity, because it's when you can't have everything to get what you want is when you have to get creative with what you have.

28 minutes ago, Gaffa said:

They weren't strawmanning you. They were using reductio ad absurdum to show the silly endstate of your argument taken to the final conclusion. A straw man is arguing against a position your opponent never actually took.

Restrictions, by the way, increase creativity, because it's when you can't have everything to get what you want is when you have to get creative with what you have.

Thank you for pointing that out.

Whatever he was doing, it wasn't addressing my argument. I just tend to dislike people reading a long detailed post, taking one sentence out of it and failing to address it in any way other than mockery.

Restrictions do increase creativity and we already have a mechanic for it - influence. Also locking the events to infaction only characters is not a restriction I would argue but just a straight up ban saying "you can't do anything interesting with this card ever unless you play scorpion".

Making these cards 3 influence would easily achieve the same results while also making it possible for some nieche out of faction decks to use them.

So yeah I still fail to see how my argument was "silly".

I think maybe anything that isn't a way of card has influence...

and later on in development there may possibly be just enough splashable/mix alignment cards to make any of these playable out of faction.

Both versions of these cards are savage. The fact that they let you play characters for half cost and with an edge of suprise/unpredictability with the only drawback being card draw, which both clans excel at is a bit off. Not too mention Ryoko Owari.......

1 hour ago, Gaffa said:

Restrictions, by the way, increase creativity, because it's when you can't have everything to get what you want is when you have to get creative with what you have.

IMO you two speak of two different kind of creativity. He speaks of a sandbox creativity like an architect, that designs a building, a designer of clothes or a modder.

I'm kind of underwhelmed by this one to be honest. Then again, I'm probably just comparing it to the Unicorn one which is downright stupid. That said, if one of Scorpions Conflict characters is a 4 drop this card can be dumb lol. I'll probably have my mind changed by it though.

2 hours ago, BordOne said:

Thank you for pointing that out.

Whatever he was doing, it wasn't addressing my argument. I just tend to dislike people reading a long detailed post, taking one sentence out of it and failing to address it in any way other than mockery.

Restrictions do increase creativity and we already have a mechanic for it - influence. Also locking the events to infaction only characters is not a restriction I would argue but just a straight up ban saying "you can't do anything interesting with this card for now unless you play scorpion".

Making these cards 3 influence would easily achieve the same results while also making it possible for some nieche out of faction decks to use them.

So yeah I still fail to see how my argument was "silly".

Fixed that for you. We don't know what the future brings (dual-clan aligned personalities; more splashable Scorpion characters; etc.).

14 minutes ago, Oliveira said:

Fixed that for you. We don't know what the future brings (dual-clan aligned personalities; more splashable Scorpion characters; etc.).

True. This. Is. Just. The. Core. Some of the cards will stop being used once the card pool increases and others will become quite more useful with a bigger card pool.

28 minutes ago, Oliveira said:

Fixed that for you. We don't know what the future brings (dual-clan aligned personalities; more splashable Scorpion characters; etc.).

I can't see them releasing enough dual scorpion personalities in one clan to make this card playable ever(remember all of them need to be scorpion + one and the same clan for this event to be relevant). Unless they go super hard on it in which case more power to them. There won't ever be more splashable Scorpion characters. The max amount of scorpion characters you can play with this event is 7(10 depending on your role). Unless ofc they release stronghold with more influence and make this event go from terrible to kinda bad splash.

Still I don't see why it couldn't have been resolved by just adding 2 more influence to the card instead of this limitation. The only reason I can think of is fluff

17 minutes ago, BordOne said:

There won't ever be more splashable Scorpion characters. The max amount of scorpion characters you can play with this event is 7(10 depending on your role).

Why do you say that? You do not know that either of these two sentences are true.

Why do you think there will never be more splashable Scorpion characters outside of the core? Of course there will be.

If a character has Scorpion / Lion duel alignment, then (as per the RR) you do not need to spend influence to put them in your Lion deck, regardless of if they are a dynasty or conflict character.

I will admit it is extremely unlikely that there will ever be enough splashable / duel aligned scorpions to justify playing this card outside of a scorpion deck. But I am sure that, someday, the option will at least be viable even if it isn't a great idea.

For what it is worth, I am not super enamored by this card even in a scorpion deck. Playtesting will obviously reveal more. Charge has shown itself to be very good, but not as game breaking as I originally thought. However, its quality is almost entirely tied to it costing 1. Paying 3 for a better version is not incredibly appealing to me at the moment, until I see more of what Scorpion has to offer.

32 minutes ago, Yogo Gohei said:

Why do you say that? You do not know that either of these two sentences are true.

Why do you think there will never be more splashable Scorpion characters outside of the core? Of course there will be.

If a character has Scorpion / Lion duel alignment, then (as per the RR) you do not need to spend influence to put them in your Lion deck, regardless of if they are a dynasty or conflict character.

I will admit it is extremely unlikely that there will ever be enough splashable / duel aligned scorpions to justify playing this card outside of a scorpion deck. But I am sure that, someday, the option will at least be viable even if it isn't a great idea.

For what it is worth, I am not super enamored by this card even in a scorpion deck. Playtesting will obviously reveal more. Charge has shown itself to be very good, but not as game breaking as I originally thought. However, its quality is almost entirely tied to it costing 1. Paying 3 for a better version is not incredibly appealing to me at the moment, until I see more of what Scorpion has to offer.

I did adress the dynasty characters in the first part of the post tho... since op made a difference between dual characters and splashable characters

In a scorpion deck with Ryoko Owari, this card is probably going to be very nasty. It buys in 6 fate for a spend of 2, thats a net of 4 (minus card draw, but characters you buy in may give you card draw so...?), in every test i've played in economy gains are huge. 1 or 2 points is a big edge 4 seems scary, even the unicorns gain of 3 is nasty.

Thats all without a character like Actress coming down and then buying another card down after shes been used to ambush in military, or whatever other nasty scorpion tricks we see.

45 minutes ago, Yogo Gohei said:

If a character has Scorpion / Lion duel alignment, then (as per the RR) you do not need to spend influence to put them in your Lion deck, regardless of if they are a dynasty or conflict character.

And let's not forget that we may get new strongholds with more than 10 influence.

This card leads me to believe that Oath of Fealty will be a thing again someday.

Edit: I should add for newer players that Oath was an action from old5r that made out of clan characters part of your clan.

2 hours ago, BordOne said:

I can't see them releasing enough dual scorpion personalities in one clan to make this card playable ever(remember all of them need to be scorpion + one and the same clan for this event to be relevant). Unless they go super hard on it in which case more power to them. There won't ever be more splashable Scorpion characters. The max amount of scorpion characters you can play with this event is 7(10 depending on your role). Unless ofc they release stronghold with more influence and make this event go from terrible to kinda bad splash.

Still I don't see why it couldn't have been resolved by just adding 2 more influence to the card instead of this limitation. The only reason I can think of is fluff

I'm assuming the reason they didn't make it cost 3 influence is that the only way you'll be able to play it in a non-Scorpion deck is by including Scorpion characters in your conflict pool (until and unless they add dual clan characters) and that will also require influence. I'm also curious why they didn't just make it 0 influence and thus not usable by non-Scorpion decks in the first place but maybe there are reasons.

4 hours ago, BordOne said:

I can't see them releasing enough dual scorpion personalities in one clan to make this card playable ever(remember all of them need to be scorpion + one and the same clan for this event to be relevant).

Oh, you can't see the Clan that infiltrated every other Clan in the game during its history, sometimes even family daimyo, getting enough dual personalities, ever? The Clan whole main shtick is being ninja, the one Clan who have an entire school dedicated to impersonating other people? You can't see them getting enough dual personalities ever? Ever?

Even remembering that you only need one or two personalities dual-aligned to a particular Clan to have from nine to twelve characters, including the ones you can get from Influence, to make this card perfectly viable? EVER?

Okay, then.

4 hours ago, BordOne said:

I can't see them releasing enough dual scorpion personalities in one clan to make this card playable ever(remember all of them need to be scorpion + one and the same clan for this event to be relevant).

Oh, you can't see the Clan that infiltrated every other Clan in the game during its history, sometimes even family daimyo, getting enough dual personalities, ever? The Clan whole main shtick is being ninja, the one Clan who have an entire school dedicated to impersonating other people? You can't see them getting enough dual personalities ever? Ever?

Even remembering that you only need one or two personalities dual-aligned to a particular Clan to have from nine to twelve characters, including the ones you can get from Influence, to make this card perfectly viable? EVER?

Okay, then.

9 hours ago, Mirumoto Saito said:

Oh, you can't see the Clan that infiltrated every other Clan in the game during its history, sometimes even family daimyo, getting enough dual personalities, ever? The Clan whole main shtick is being ninja, the one Clan who have an entire school dedicated to impersonating other people? You can't see them getting enough dual personalities ever? Ever?

Even remembering that you only need one or two personalities dual-aligned to a particular Clan to have from nine to twelve characters, including the ones you can get from Influence, to make this card perfectly viable? EVER?

Okay, then.

I like your humour but yeah I cannot see that. Considering that there are 6 other clans and the sheer volume of interesting possibilities of cards to be created I just don't know what would be able to make ffg focus their rescources on pumping out numerous scorpion dual personalities in single other clan just to make this event viable.

but yeah it goes well with the lore