Mainly I've been posting Fun Lists because I haven't liked the status of the meta and haven't liked playing or playing against any of the competitive builds recently even with successful store champ runs. Mainly because I'm a traditional Imperial Ace player and that's become unplayable at least in the style I like, (Kylo/RAC is unfun for me and my opponent). However, Howard's new Palp Ace list intruigues me. It's not traditional reposition Aces, but ones I do have plenty of experience with. Wondering if we can have an intelligent discussion on this list in the current meta. What are some strengths it has versus some squads and some weaknesses? What are some openings you like when running it? I know the Howard's favor the parallel to the board edge opening with the shuttle, whereas, myself favors the 45 degree opening. What are your thoughts?

(100)

"Omega Leader" (29) - TIE/FO Fighter
Juke (2), Comm Relay (3), Hull Upgrade (3)

"Quickdraw" (39) - TIE/SF Fighter
Expertise (4), Fire Control System (2), Sensor Cluster (2), Special Ops Training (0), Lightweight Frame (2)

Captain Yorr (32) - Lambda-Class Shuttle
Collision Detector (0), Emperor Palpatine (8)

While I like both OL and QD, I'm not entirely convinced of this list's offensive output. I mean, after wave XI, having two tanky ships in one list to mitigate damage will be more common. I'm not sold on Palp either, although he can still be strong influence when used at the right time.

If you insist on Palp, then what I would do, is skim off a few points here and there, and upgrade his ride into an Upsilon. It has a much better dial and packs a considerable punch.

"Omega Leader" (21)
Juke (2)
Comm Relay (3)

"Quickdraw" (29)
A Score to Settle (0)
Fire-Control System (2)
Pattern Analyzer (2)
Lightweight Frame (2)
Special Ops Training (0)

Starkiller Base Pilot (30)
Collision Detector (0)
Emperor Palpatine (8)

Total: 99

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

For what it's worth, here's a video of Duncan beating FSR with the OP list:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DA6qGlZeUAY

I wouldn't invest more in a Palp-Shuttle. One of the biggest benefits are how cheap it can be run, and how long it can occupy your opponent's ships while they try to kill it (if they go that route).

I'm also not sold on neo-Palp, though. I liked him when running two ships with Lightweight Frame, but that's about it.

Honestly, I don't think Howard's new aces list will cut it. It has no real answer to Fair Ship Rebels/Rebel Junkyard or Denym OR Imperial Alpha strikes. It's not auto-loss, but, against good players running either of those lists, it shouldn't really stand a chance.

Do I think Duncan will do well with the list? Yes, of course, though I can't really fathom how he does so well all the time. But I do not think, objectively, this list cuts it in the meta. Too many chances for really crap match-ups.

5 minutes ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

For what it's worth, here's a video of Duncan beating FSR with the OP list:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DA6qGlZeUAY

Looks like they removed the comments about Duncan's sketchy dice handling, interesting.

In this video, FSR is not really played that well. Not sure what the thought was going into engagement, but it was a cluster almost immediately. Supposedly Duncan has beaten Ron playing that list a couple times, though, so maybe there was some attempt at a new strategy that didn't pay off. Or I'm mis-remembering the FB post.

1 hour ago, ArbitraryNerd said:

Looks like they removed the comments about Duncan's sketchy dice handling, interesting.

Going to derail this thread right meow.
I watched this match live and don't recall this - please explain.
Edit: Re-watching now...

12 minutes ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

For what it's worth, here's a video of Duncan beating FSR with the OP list:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DA6qGlZeUAY

I saw this video in one of the FSR threads. Ron seemingly did everything wrong in that game.

• He allowed entirely too tight of an obstacle cluster
• He then flew directly into the tight obstacle cluster
• He bounced off, over, through obstacles
• He spun Rex off all alone to die
• Duncan dangled OL like a carrot and Ron bit, chasing OL half the game

I wouldn't consider this game a good example of how Duncan's list would perform against FSR in a typical game.

6 minutes ago, gennataos said:

I saw this video in one of the FSR threads. Ron seemingly did everything wrong in that game.

• He allowed entirely too tight of an obstacle cluster
• He then flew directly into the tight obstacle cluster
• He bounced off, over, through obstacles
• He spun Rex off all alone to die
• Duncan dangled OL like a carrot and Ron bit, chasing OL half the game

I wouldn't consider this game a good example of how Duncan's list would perform against FSR in a typical game.

Understandable.
I think @Captain Pellaeon is right. Imperials cannot afford to have so many points invested in the shuttle. Palp just doesn't warrant the sink any more, especially since there's so much firepower out there that can easily get through to the Aces (even more so now.. RE: Quickdraw is an "Ace").

Please do not discuss the dice situation in this thread. The topic is mute. Duncan already answered the situation in a Reddit thread.

1 hour ago, Captain Pellaeon said:

While I like both OL and QD, I'm not entirely convinced of this list's offensive output. I mean, after wave XI, having two tanky ships in one list to mitigate damage will be more common. I'm not sold on Palp either, although he can still be strong influence when used at the right time.

If you insist on Palp, then what I would do, is skim off a few points here and there, and upgrade his ride into an Upsilon. It has a much better dial and packs a considerable punch.

"Omega Leader" (21)
Juke (2)
Comm Relay (3)

"Quickdraw" (29)
A Score to Settle (0)
Fire-Control System (2)
Pattern Analyzer (2)
Lightweight Frame (2)
Special Ops Training (0)

Starkiller Base Pilot (30)
Collision Detector (0)
Emperor Palpatine (8)

Total: 99

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Interesting take. Now I've flown Upsilon shuttles a ton, but I don't feel they are worth it unless you have FCS or Advance Sensors. With Palp in the list the Shuttle is now at or over 40 points. I have felt the perfect price point for an Upsilon is at 36-38, but it needs one of those two System Slots. Yorr's ability plus Palp at a cheaper price seems like the better buy.

34 minutes ago, gennataos said:

I saw this video in one of the FSR threads. Ron seemingly did everything wrong in that game.

• He allowed entirely too tight of an obstacle cluster
• He then flew directly into the tight obstacle cluster
• He bounced off, over, through obstacles
• He spun Rex off all alone to die
• Duncan dangled OL like a carrot and Ron bit, chasing OL half the game

I wouldn't consider this game a good example of how Duncan's list would perform against FSR in a typical game.

Duncan has a major part in these two points. He set half the obstacles and dangling an ace is a known strategy. Example: Nathan Eide's run at Worlds 2015. Yeah, Ron could have played better to mitigate these effects, but Duncan does get credit.

15 minutes ago, Tbetts94 said:

Please do not discuss the dice situation in this thread. The topic is mute. Duncan already answered the situation in a Reddit thread.

Sorry..

13 minutes ago, Tbetts94 said:

Duncan has a major part in these two points. He set half the obstacles and dangling an ace is a known strategy. Example: Nathan Eide's run at Worlds 2015. Yeah, Ron could have played better to mitigate these effects, but Duncan does get credit.

I'm not sure if Duncan gets credit for applying obvious strategies that even a n00b like myself recognized. I'm just saying Ron flew badly, and a list flown badly doesn't tell you much of anything about the opponent nor their list.

Monday night I tabled a newer player in 20 minutes with Dash/Poe because he flew over obstacles and didn't concentrate fire. I then played against a TIE swarm + QD with the same list, got Dash killed with only 2 damage on the opposing list and the game went to time with Poe against QD and two remaining TIEs. I wouldn't consider either of those games indicative of the abilities of either of my opponents lists nor Dash/Poe. I'd just say those were 2 poorly flown games by the losing side.

13 minutes ago, gennataos said:

I'm not sure if Duncan gets credit for applying obvious strategies that even a n00b like myself recognized. I'm just saying Ron flew badly, and a list flown badly doesn't tell you much of anything about the opponent nor their list.

Monday night I tabled a newer player in 20 minutes with Dash/Poe because he flew over obstacles and didn't concentrate fire. I then played against a TIE swarm + QD with the same list, got Dash killed with only 2 damage on the opposing list and the game went to time with Poe against QD and two remaining TIEs. I wouldn't consider either of those games indicative of the abilities of either of my opponents lists nor Dash/Poe. I'd just say those were 2 poorly flown games by the losing side.

Yeah that all seems reasonable. But the list still has some merit. It did make the Final table.

Some things I think it has going for in this meta:

Hit Points: 10, 6, & 5. Also, QuickDraw receives a benefit by losing 3 of his hit points. This combined with Palp helps the bomb matchups.

LWF/Palp Interaction

Omega Leader still shuts down many lists

Yorr helps with stress mechanics which may see a rise with Nym being played

Tagging @Tlfj200 since he knows Duncan and may have some insight onto the list going forward.

11 minutes ago, Tbetts94 said:

Yeah that all seems reasonable. But the list still has some merit. It did make the Final table.

Agreed. I just didn't agree with that game being shown as an example of anything other than how not to fly FSR.

19 hours ago, Tbetts94 said:

Mainly because I'm a traditional Imperial Ace player and that's become unplayable at least in the style I like, (

Great thread, it's nice to see discussion about an imperial list in the current meta. So recently I've been trying to fly more competitively, trying the hot new lists for rebels and scum. It hasn't gone well, I overthink how to beat it, and keep making changes. So the day before the local SC, I said forget it, win or lose, I'm running what is fun for me, I'm running Imperial Aces.

Sure enough, I was the only Imperial player, running QD, Soontir, and Sabbac. Our local group has some great players, so I figured this was a bad sign. So after swiss, I had made the cut as the 8 seed. Round 1 I knocked out the 1 seed (Dynem), and then knocked out the 3 seed (Kanan Biggs). Final table was my aces against the junkyard, being flown by one of our local area's best players. We had played once earlier, I avoided the interaction for about 45 minutes, trying to get him to break up the formation. This was a flawed strategy, as a top 16 world's player isn't likely to have his formation broken up so easy. I flew a lot differently in the final, and was happy with my attack strategy. In the end, the dice played a large role in the defeat. I had lined up some great opportunities and the dice didn't cooperate. In the end, he's a great player, and I was thrilled to be at the final table, especially as the only imperial player.

I only bring this up because outside of advanced slam bombs, I think the Aces are still viable. Now more than ever, it's essential to be as patient as possible, giving up shots to stay alive. With the resurgence of Dash, because of FSR, the Aces can find their place.

As far as running Palp, I like this list currently. I think the initiative bid is crucial.

Omicron Group Pilot — Lambda-Class Shuttle21

Collision Detector0

Emperor Palpatine8

Ship Total: 29

"Quickdraw" — TIE/sf Fighter29

Expertise4

Fire-Control System2

Lightweight Frame2

Special Ops Training0

Ship Total: 37

The Inquisitor — TIE Advanced Prototype25

Push the Limit3

Autothrusters2

TIE/v11

Ship Total: 31

57 minutes ago, ImperialOfficer said:

Great thread, it's nice to see discussion about an imperial list in the current meta. So recently I've been trying to fly more competitively, trying the hot new lists for rebels and scum. It hasn't gone well, I overthink how to beat it, and keep making changes. So the day before the local SC, I said forget it, win or lose, I'm running what is fun for me, I'm running Imperial Aces.

Sure enough, I was the only Imperial player, running QD, Soontir, and Sabbac. Our local group has some great players, so I figured this was a bad sign. So after swiss, I had made the cut as the 8 seed. Round 1 I knocked out the 1 seed (Dynem), and then knocked out the 3 seed (Kanan Biggs). Final table was my aces against the junkyard, being flown by one of our local area's best players. We had played once earlier, I avoided the interaction for about 45 minutes, trying to get him to break up the formation. This was a flawed strategy, as a top 16 world's player isn't likely to have his formation broken up so easy. I flew a lot differently in the final, and was happy with my attack strategy. In the end, the dice played a large role in the defeat. I had lined up some great opportunities and the dice didn't cooperate. In the end, he's a great player, and I was thrilled to be at the final table, especially as the only imperial player.

I only bring this up because outside of advanced slam bombs, I think the Aces are still viable. Now more than ever, it's essential to be as patient as possible, giving up shots to stay alive. With the resurgence of Dash, because of FSR, the Aces can find their place.

As far as running Palp, I like this list currently. I think the initiative bid is crucial.

Omicron Group Pilot — Lambda-Class Shuttle21

Collision Detector0

Emperor Palpatine8

Ship Total: 29

"Quickdraw" — TIE/sf Fighter29

Expertise4

Fire-Control System2

Lightweight Frame2

Special Ops Training0

Ship Total: 37

The Inquisitor — TIE Advanced Prototype25

Push the Limit3

Autothrusters2

TIE/v11

Ship Total: 31

I actually ran a similar list at Kashyyyk with Backdraft, Inquisitor, Yorr. Went fairly well. 4-3. All my losses were so close, heart breaking to barely miss Day 2.

20 hours ago, gennataos said:

I wouldn't consider this game a good example of how Duncan's list would perform against FSR in a typical game.

Definitely agree. I watched this game, and I was saying literally aloud, "What is he doing?" Duncan hung the Shuttle out to dry at one point ... and he literally turned away from it to chase Lockdown.

I don't know the circumstances -- how tired they were, experience levels, and so on -- but if my friends and I saw one of us fly FSR this way live, we'd be making jokes about how we were deliberately tanking the game.

I would eat Duncan's list alive, flying FSR, winning 80%+ ... and that's accounting for a significant general X-Wing skill disparity.

Taking it to a kit tournament today. We'll see how it goes!

Good luck! Make the empire proud.

Went 3-1, only lost to the first place player. Who used a Tie Swarm that he took the idea from fame awhile back with Sabacc. I'll do a write up later on.

First Round: Dash/Nym (100-0)

I seriously thought I was gonna lose this one. QuickDraw was on 1, OL was one 2, and Palp has a shield. I took a chunk out of Nym with the Shuttle one turn which was huge. QuickDraw ended up doing a front/back shot, doing 3 damage to Nym to kill him and 2 damage to Dash leaving him at 1. It was a Damage race and I just barely finished ahead of him. Helped my MOV a ton with how the damage was split.

2nd Round: Lats/Fenn/Kavil (100-0)

This was a new player. I wouldn't put too much into this game. However, I've never seen a YV roll so many natural evades...

3rd Round: Tie Swarm: Howlrunner/Sabacc/Wampa/2 Blacks/Academy (63-100)

First round of firing I set up exactly how I wanted. QuickDraw had only 1 shot at him which was Sabacc from Range 3, so I'd get 3 dice plus LWF cuz Sabacc's 4 dice. Now I was thinking, it's fine I'll take a TL on Howlrunner and see if I can kill him with a lucky shot. Nope, he evades it and then Sabacc shoots 4 hits which in hindsight was expected with Focus and Howl, I rolled 4 blanks, so took three shields after Palp and I then revenge shot Howl doing 1 hit and 1 Crit (Damage Sensor Array).

Not looking good at all. But I played a smart move with my Shuttle twice in the game. One of the reasons why I liked this list was cuz of the Shuttle. I think I'm one of the bests in the area to know when to bring it in and when to not. I 1 banked away towards the board edge juking every Tie except an academy giving the Shuttle what I thought was 1 more turn. I was faking with OL for awhile and thought he was gonna think I was gonna fake being him in again and go kill my Shuttle since he couldn't the turn prior. Called my bluff and turned in and had one block OL and killed him in one round.

Luck starting going my way. Howl had been dead for awhile. Now QuickDraw 1 shots a Black and Wampa, the Palp Shuttle 1 shots a Black, and all that's left was Sabacc and an Academy. Unfortunately, my positioning was off and Sabacc and Academy had really good position to trap me on the board edge and Sabbac killed me.

4th Round: Dengar/Nym (100-16)

I played first engagement perfectly. Baited OL but then 1 harder barrel rolled out of range of Dengar and Nym. Then I did a 4 Straight Barrel Roll out of arc of Dengar with QuickDraw. Took all shields off with my revenge shot on Dengar. After that I brought in the Shuttle to work on Nym and QuickDraw was soloing Dengar with his own double taps. Once Dengar was dead, Nym had no shields and was just a matter of getting another couple shots on him.

Thoughts: I originally had Pattern on Quick thinking that's what Duncan had. But then I checked and he had Sensor Cluster. I didn't once use Sensor Cluster. I used it on Backdraft in my Kashyyyk build and was perfect cuz Backdraft doesn't mind going away from the fight. QuickDraw needs his focus and stay in the fight. Pattern would had easily won me the game in that Tie Swarm end game. Yeah, list has Yorr in it. But even then the value you get for 2 points more is much higher with Pattern, ****, I could even get more value out of Weapons Guidance to get 98% chance of 3 hits every time.

That's a good showing, especially since you played against relevant lists. It's definitely a patience game when you're playing Aces. Would you mind elaborating on your first few turns?
Your opponent's placement, your placement, and the first two or so maneuvers you dialed in?

Considering taking this list to a kit night and want to know just how safe I need to proceed against Nym/Dengar. I'm used to playing RAC+Vader and bumping with the VT-49 to prevent shots. This list, like Duncan's, doesn't have a good way to bump ('cause the shuttle is a literal space cow) and the aces cannot afford to bump in most cases...

“Quickdraw” (34)
Special Forces TIE (29), Adaptability (0), Fire-Control System (2), Cruise Missiles (3), Special Ops Training (0)

Darth Vader (37)
TIE Advanced (29), TIE/x1 (0), Cruise Missiles (3), Adaptability (0), Engine Upgrade (4), Advanced Targeting Computer (1)

Omicron Group Pilot (29)
Lambda-Class Shuttle (21), Collision Detector (0), Emperor Palpatine (8)

On 13.8.2017 at 5:16 PM, Tbetts94 said:

But then I checked and he had Sensor Cluster. I didn't once use Sensor Cluster.

As far as I understand it's to make sure your shield gets shot off one by one, so it's actually an offensive upgrade rather than a defensive one.

Thanks for the battlerep. I second @Rinzler in a Tie's request - how did you fly it?

Also, how much value is the hull upgrade on OL and would you even consider swapping out OL for something else?

26 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

As far as I understand it's to make sure your shield gets shot off one by one, so it's actually an offensive upgrade rather than a defensive one.

Thanks for the battlerep. I second @Rinzler in a Tie's request - how did you fly it?

Also, how much value is the hull upgrade on OL and would you even consider swapping out OL for something else?

Hull Upgrade was key when facing both Nyms. I was working on a clock and Hull Upgrade saved the day.

Yeah I understand that. I still rather make sure I can outmaneuver anything in the end game.

On 8/9/2017 at 4:14 PM, Tbetts94 said:

Please do not discuss the dice situation in this thread. The topic is mute. Duncan already answered the situation in a Reddit thread.

Interesting take. Now I've flown Upsilon shuttles a ton, but I don't feel they are worth it unless you have FCS or Advance Sensors. With Palp in the list the Shuttle is now at or over 40 points. I have felt the perfect price point for an Upsilon is at 36-38, but it needs one of those two System Slots. Yorr's ability plus Palp at a cheaper price seems like the better buy.

Duncan has a major part in these two points. He set half the obstacles and dangling an ace is a known strategy. Example: Nathan Eide's run at Worlds 2015. Yeah, Ron could have played better to mitigate these effects, but Duncan does get credit.

Any chance you could link that discussion? I was unaware of its existence and would like to catch up. Thank you