So I know I'm probably in a vast minority, but I absolutely love the Fudo movement, and while I love Heresy as a whole; it'd be pretty confusing and overall not effective if we simply allowed for any and all heresies to just show up. Fudo needs to be a honed edge, a scalpel, to dismantle the established Status Quo of what it means to Enlighten and how one achieves such ends. I personally think Fudo should be the Heresy that we tie out banner to, the hill upon which we stand. So this thread I'm going to keep a running tab of the core tenets of Fudoism, what it means, who is attracted to Fudoism, and just do as much as I can, with all community input, and I would LOVE your help, to build a core foundational belief of simply, "What is Fudo?".

But there's a little bit more, here I also want to talk about infections. The big one question is WHO? WHO shall we begin infesting with Fudo? One Clan? Two Clans? We shouldn't put all our eggs in one basket, but we absolutely should at least agree on two, maybe even three clans to begin a focused community effort to bring Fudo into their midsts. So I'll also keep a running tally on public opinion on what Clans we should begin to move towards. [Now granted this movement might simply be just me, and while that would be sad, it would not be surprising. However, I hope to convert a few with some compelling arguments]

What is Fudo?

• Abandonment of anything that might hold one back from Enlightenment
  • Enlightenment by Any Means Necessary
  • "My path may lead to your death, or mine samurai. But what matter such things, if the goal be enlightenment"
• Enlightenment in parallel to your path, and even by your path.
  • Meaning, you can find Enlightenment anywhere, no matter your position. Samurai, Peasent, Geisha, etc
• Use of Corruption and Maliciousness as a means to an end, see The Heart of Fudo.
• Lies, Pride, Passion, Envy, and Hatred, from the False Rings.
  • And to be such things unapologetically, with no regard for saving face.
• Truth to Oneself, at the Cost of Honor.
• Understanding Breeds Understanding.

Now granted this isn't a whole lot, but I'm more than open to suggestions, the more fleshed this movement becomes the more we can weigh our influence and try and get some foot holds in some interesting places. Kolat may have been destined for greatness, and Shadowlands may always have been a staggeringly large threat internally and externally, but Heresy is just as interesting. I mean, near the end of Old5R Fudo followers were being slaughtered in the streets for Wrong Think, which is some 1984 stick that I think would compliment itself so beautifully to the L5R Setting.

But where and what clan should we begin building? Here are some of my thoughts...

• Crab. Enlightenment by Any Means would likely appeal to them as well as the abandonment of Honor as an ideal would appeal as well. [Only downfall is that they already have a Kolat infestation, both in fiction and out of it lol]
• Lion. This one I'm pretty partial too, they don't even read the Tao so i'd be easy to encourage them that they can achieve enlightenment simply by doing what they're doing already. Also the Ikoma Family has been putting honor aside since before the old patriarch died.
• Scorpion. This one I'm a little unsure about, The Scorpion players are an odd lot, and pretty harshly rooted into the dogmatic status quo, but the abandonment of Honor is something they do already so I don't see them as too far a stretch to maybe persuade them.
• Dragon. Pretty cliche but I won't deny that the flavor text on Way of the Dragon is pretty much the core tenet of Fudoism, but they above all else would be most aggressive at stamping out heresy.

So what are some of your thoughts? I would like to pretty much take the reigns and make Fudo just as much a player movement. I mean The Mantis Clan forums were a den of Kolat, so many of the player base identified as Kolat, or at least the top/loudest/most well know players were at least. Yoritomo Raiden aka The Kolat Informant was at least. So let's make something interesting, something compelling. Let's recreate The Protestant Reformation in L5R, let's see what happens

8 minutes ago, Foxtrot Four said:

So I know I'm probably in a vast minority, but I absolutely love the Fudo movement, and while I love Heresy as a whole; it'd be pretty confusing and overall not effective if we simply allowed for any and all heresies to just show up. Fudo needs to be a honed edge, a scalpel, to dismantle the established Status Quo of what it means to Enlighten and how one achieves such ends. I personally think Fudo should be the Heresy that we tie out banner to, the hill upon which we stand. So this thread I'm going to keep a running tab of the core tenets of Fudoism, what it means, who is attracted to Fudoism, and just do as much as I can, with all community input, and I would LOVE your help, to build a core foundational belief of simply, "What is Fudo?".

But there's a little bit more, here I also want to talk about infections. The big one question is WHO? WHO shall we begin infesting with Fudo? One Clan? Two Clans? We shouldn't put all our eggs in one basket, but we absolutely should at least agree on two, maybe even three clans to begin a focused community effort to bring Fudo into their midsts. So I'll also keep a running tally on public opinion on what Clans we should begin to move towards. [Now granted this movement might simply be just me, and while that would be sad, it would not be surprising. However, I hope to convert a few with some compelling arguments]

What is Fudo?

• Abandonment of anything that might hold one back from Enlightenment
  • Enlightenment by Any Means Necessary
• Enlightenment in parallel to your path, and even by your path.
  • Meaning, you can find Enlightenment anywhere, no matter your position. Samurai, Peasent, Geisha, etc
• Use of Corruption and Maliciousness as a means to an end, see The Heart of Fudo.
• Lies, Pride, Passion, Envy, and Hatred, from the False Rings.
  • And to be such things unapologetically, with no regard for saving face.

Now granted this isn't a whole lot, but I'm more than open to suggestions, the more fleshed this movement becomes the more we can weigh our influence and try and get some foot holds in some interesting places. Kolat may have been destined for greatness, and Shadowlands may always have been a staggeringly large threat internally and externally, but Heresy is just as interesting. I mean, near the end of Old5R Fudo followers were being slaughtered in the streets for Wrong Think, which is some 1984 stick that I think would compliment itself so beautifully to the L5R Setting.

But where and what clan should we begin building? Here are some of my thoughts...

• Crab. Enlightenment by Any Means would likely appeal to them as well as the abandonment of Honor as an ideal would appeal as well. [Only downfall is that they already have a Kolat infestation, both in fiction and out of it lol]
• Lion. This one I'm pretty partial too, they don't even read the Tao so i'd be easy to encourage them that they can achieve enlightenment simply by doing what they're doing already. Also the Ikoma Family has been putting honor aside since before the old patriarch died.
• Scorpion. This one I'm a little unsure about, The Scorpion players are an odd lot, and pretty harshly rooted into the dogmatic status quo, but the abandonment of Honor is something they do already so I don't see them as too far a stretch to maybe persuade them.
• Dragon. Pretty cliche but I won't deny that the flavor text on Way of the Dragon is pretty much the core tenet of Fudoism, but they above all else would be most aggressive at stamping out heresy.

So what are some of your thoughts? I would like to pretty much take the reigns and make Fudo just as much a player movement. I mean The Mantis Clan forums were a den of Kolat, so many of the player base identified as Kolat, or at least the top/loudest/most well know players were at least. Yoritomo Raiden aka The Kolat Informant was at least. So let's make something interesting, something compelling. Let's recreate The Protestant Reformation in L5R, let's see what happens

*scratches name on scroll*

I've got my eye on you.

the squeaky wheel gets the grease.........or burned at the stake.

You have been warned

??????????

?

I strongly dislike heresy as a general rule. I find apostasy (outright renunciation of one's faith) a more compelling character trait personally. But I would like to see Fudo return because, while you are indeed in the minority, it is a huge minority.

Speaking as a historian:

Heresy conflicts throughout history tend to be over very slight doctrinal differences, or over differences of application of a shared doctrine, or even of regional religious variation used as an excuse for conventional conflict.

A fair amount of the time, historical heresies have been economic conflicts where the two sides use existing religious differences to identify themselves. When this happens it's often peasant vs aristocrat conflicts, or aristocrat vs emerging middle class.

Fudo doesn't feel like heresy. It's more like an entirely separate religion, which has some philosophy in common with the conventional Fortunist-Shinseist-Ancestor Worshipper religion of Rokugan, but not much. That said, the emergence of new religions is an extremely interesting topic in its own right.

If you want inspiration for what wars of religion look like, the following three might be good introductions (and is also a indication of my field of study):

- The Hussite Wars

- The Bauernkrieg

- The Albigensian Crusade

5 minutes ago, Kitsu Seinosuke said:

Speaking as a historian:

Heresy conflicts throughout history tend to be over very slight doctrinal differences, or over differences of application of a shared doctrine, or even of regional religious variation used as an excuse for conventional conflict.

A fair amount of the time, historical heresies have been economic conflicts where the two sides use existing religious differences to identify themselves. When this happens it's often peasant vs aristocrat conflicts, or aristocrat vs emerging middle class.

Fudo doesn't feel like heresy. It's more like an entirely separate religion, which has some philosophy in common with the conventional Fortunist-Shinseist-Ancestor Worshipper religion of Rokugan, but not much. That said, the emergence of new religions is an extremely interesting topic in its own right.

If you want inspiration for what wars of religion look like, the following three might be good introductions (and is also a indication of my field of study):

- The Hussite Wars

- The Bauernkrieg

- The Albigensian Crusade

I'd look to the last one, if you want to see the consequences of bringing back Fudo?

PURGE WITH FIRE!!!!

(tm Shiba Gunichi)

Was there any relevant Fudo stuff after the the Monk and the Madness tournament?

Spider rallies the troops for heresy...and the clans respond with fire purging threats. This Phoenix approves.

Do we need a second heretical sect plotline right now?

6 minutes ago, Daramere said:

Do we need a second heretical sect plotline right now?

We need ALLLLLL the heresies.

3 hours ago, Foxtrot Four said:

• Crab. Enlightenment by Any Means would likely appeal to them as well as the abandonment of Honor as an ideal would appeal as well. [Only downfall is that they already have a Kolat infestation, both in fiction and out of it lol]

Kolat?! In the Crab!? Why - I never...

17 minutes ago, Daramere said:

Do we need a second heretical sect plotline right now?

Gotta keep the Phoenix busy somehow, I mean it's not like the elemental kami are completely out of balance and the peasants are trying to cheat enlightenment.

9 hours ago, Foxtrot Four said:

• Crab. Enlightenment by Any Means would likely appeal to them as well as the abandonment of Honor as an ideal would appeal as well. [Only downfall is that they already have a Kolat infestation, both in fiction and out of it lol]

I had a Crab Enlightenment deck around Jade Edition era called Enlightenment Through Superior Firepower. Mostly military but could play all the Rings and win by Enlightenment. It was a blast in multiplayer games. Fond memories...

I was so bummed when the Fudo "faction" beat out Pan K'u's Pancakes... er, the Fallen, that is.

1 hour ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

I was so bummed when the Fudo "faction" beat out Pan K'u's Pancakes... er, the Fallen, that is.

I wasn't! Though as far as I could tell, they just printed Keigo Sensei and never talked about it again.

6 minutes ago, Mirith said:

I wasn't! Though as far as I could tell, they just printed Keigo Sensei and never talked about it again.

That was indeed about the size of it. But Fallen > Fudo.

What were the teachings of Fudo, and how did they conflict with the Tao?

13 hours ago, Ide Yoshiya said:

What were the teachings of Fudo, and how did they conflict with the Tao?

Well, exactly how you'd spin it would depend on whether the person favored Fudo or not, but the innocuous version would be to paint it as a 'follow your own path' thing. It gets problematic because that 'follow your own path' thing can involve rejecting Shinsei, Bushido, and pretty much everything else about Rokugani society. And as depicted in fiction in Classic L5R, it was mostly about rejecting those things, with some in-character pitches that were pretty explicitly Fudo says its OK to be a dishonorable scumbag/stab people in the back/be a crook, you aren't constrained by these foolish societal norms.

18 hours ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

That was indeed about the size of it. But Fallen > Fudo.

If Fallen > Fudo, Fallen would have won!

3 hours ago, Mirith said:

If Fallen > Fudo, Fallen would have won!

Nah.

With the mad insight of the Dragon Pan K'u, the Fallen saw how lackluster the prize was going to be and bailed early!

6 minutes ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

Nah.

With the mad insight of the Dragon Pan K'u, the Fallen saw how lackluster the prize was going to be and bailed early!

Nope, fought to the bitter end, and lost.