Reading different sources of material, I often noticed that there were more differences between variants of the same ships than what we're really seeing in Armada.

For example, the Vic-2 is considered to be a faster ship than the Vic-1. Yet, in Armada, we see both using the maneuver charts and speed. ISD-1 vs the ISD-2 also had different "speed values".

My question is: Why is FFG so adamant on making both versions as similar as possible? I wouldn't mind seeing 2 variants with different speed charts and top speeds as well.

That alone could have helped the Vic-2 before wave 6 happened. Food for thoughts!

What if the VSD-2 had a support team slot?

Well, according to the EU material when Vics were first mentioned, they were smaller, faster, more agile Star Destroyers developed after the death of the Emperor. But that's been so well retconned that it doesn't even show up in the Legends material on the Wookiepedia now.

20 minutes ago, Formynder4 said:

Well, according to the EU material when Vics were first mentioned, they were smaller, faster, more agile Star Destroyers developed after the death of the Emperor. But that's been so well retconned that it doesn't even show up in the Legends material on the Wookiepedia now.

Yeah, no. I don't have any idea who told you that, but they were quite wrong.

The Victory-class was first named in the 'Han Solo' novels (set before ANH), flown by the Corporate Sector Authority. That was way back in the late 1970s, and indeed published with the Victory-class name-dropped before 'Empire Strikes Back' was released. IE., before there even was an Emperor, let alone a dead one.

The association between that name and the preproduction Star Destroyer sketch from 1977's "Star Wars" occurred from West End Games, who echoed the same source - it was only ever an older 'clone wars'-era ship.

5 minutes ago, xanderf said:

Yeah, no. I don't have any idea who told you that, but they were quite wrong.

The Victory-class was first named in the 'Han Solo' novels (set before ANH), flown by the Corporate Sector Authority. That was way back in the late 1970s, and indeed published with the Victory-class name-dropped before 'Empire Strikes Back' was released. IE., before there even was an Emperor, let alone a dead one.

The association between that name and the preproduction Star Destroyer sketch from 1977's "Star Wars" occurred from West End Games, who echoed the same source - it was only ever an older 'clone wars'-era ship.

This is the way I've always understood it.

I'm pretty confident FFG has already considered it but for whatever reason they've been reluctant to pull the trigger. Want some proof?

See how the Assault Cruiser has the red block at the top of the speed 3 column as though the column should be filled in? I'm guessing an earlier playtest version had speed 3 but it was reduced and they forgot to recolor that block.

I'd take a guess that it is harder to balance the variants in relation to each other. Imagine a Vic I with speed 2, and a Vic II with speed 3. Now look at their dice pools and upgrade slots. Not a whole lot changes, but now you have a 6 die front arc ship moving faster, making it cost more. It's probably easier to make variants with different dice pools, but the same number, with different upgrade slots than it is to factor in speed, dice ranges, attack pool size, and upgrades.

I also think every ship variant has the same number of ship to ship dice, with the exception of of GR-75s. Can someone confirm that?

6 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

I also think every ship variant has the same number of ship to ship dice, with the exception of of GR-75s. Can someone confirm that?

Assault Frigate MkIIA adds a blue to the front and rear compared to the much more popular MkIIB.

Otherwise, I believe you are correct.

5 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

I'd take a guess that it is harder to balance the variants in relation to each other. Imagine a Vic I with speed 2, and a Vic II with speed 3. Now look at their dice pools and upgrade slots. Not a whole lot changes, but now you have a 6 die front arc ship moving faster, making it cost more. It's probably easier to make variants with different dice pools, but the same number, with different upgrade slots than it is to factor in speed, dice ranges, attack pool size, and upgrades.

I also think every ship variant has the same number of ship to ship dice, with the exception of of GR-75s. Can someone confirm that?

Assault Frigate IIB has 2 red dice the other has 2 red and a blue

Just now, Snipafist said:

Assault Frigate MkIIA adds a blue to the front and rear compared to the much more popular MkIIB.

Otherwise, I believe you are correct.

Ninja'd

21 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

Assault Frigate MkIIA adds a blue to the front and rear compared to the much more popular MkIIB.

Otherwise, I believe you are correct.

21 minutes ago, jamie nasmyth said:

Assault Frigate IIB has 2 red dice the other has 2 red and a blue

Oh yea. Guess that extra die makes up for the 9 point difference on top of losing a squad point.

If the balancing is that drastic with 1 die (it's also a 6 point difference on the GR-75), I can only imagine what the point difference would be for speed.

its hard enough to memorize every ships possible course layouts now you want to double that? (potentially)

I also think when the fluff says faster its more of a light speed/cruising speed thing. remember this is combat speeds here, not too much full throttle going on.

2 hours ago, Undeadguy said:

Oh yea. Guess that extra die makes up for the 9 point difference on top of losing a squad point.

If the balancing is that drastic with 1 die (it's also a 6 point difference on the GR-75), I can only imagine what the point difference would be for speed.

Also consider the AA die difference between the AF versions.

6 hours ago, Formynder4 said:

Well, according to the EU material when Vics were first mentioned, they were smaller, faster, more agile Star Destroyers developed after the death of the Emperor. But that's been so well retconned that it doesn't even show up in the Legends material on the Wookiepedia now.

I don't know where this mention occurs, but in the West End Game Star Wars Role Playing game, (which acording to some is sort of the beginning of the EU) Vic's were described as older underpowered Star Destoryers, comparable to ISD in fire power and resilience, but inferior in many other ways. (To me this means slower and less maneuverable)

6 hours ago, xanderf said:

Yeah, no. I don't have any idea who told you that, but they were quite wrong.

The Victory-class was first named in the 'Han Solo' novels (set before ANH), flown by the Corporate Sector Authority. That was way back in the late 1970s, and indeed published with the Victory-class name-dropped before 'Empire Strikes Back' was released. IE., before there even was an Emperor, let alone a dead one.

The association between that name and the preproduction Star Destroyer sketch from 1977's "Star Wars" occurred from West End Games, who echoed the same source - it was only ever an older 'clone wars'-era ship.

Nobody told me that, I read it myself. I think it was Darksaber, but it was mid-90s, when Admiral Daala killed off the Imperial warlords. High Admiral Teradoc was using them.

4 hours ago, Formynder4 said:

Nobody told me that, I read it myself. I think it was Darksaber, but it was mid-90s, when Admiral Daala killed off the Imperial warlords. High Admiral Teradoc was using them.

Ehhh...I don't think I read Darksaber, but a few of the others in that period. Sure, Victory-class ships were still in use in that period, but they certainly weren't designed then.

And as noted - they started life back in 1979 as Old Republic cast-offs from the Clone Wars, being flown by the Corporate Sector Authority at that time.

(And, man, would I be pleased as punch if the Han Solo movie involved the Corporate Sector. DOUBLY so if they include some Victory-class ships on-screen. It's the right period for it, and HOLY CRAP GEEKGASM!)

While adding another set of variables to every ship may be a bit extreme in the case of the victory class where there has been a well known difference in ship variants I don't think it's unreasonable to have different speeds/manoeuvrability.

I doubt balancing unit costs is the issue. It's clearly a game balance issue.

If a Victory had two significantly different speed and maneuverability stat sets, it would be much harder opposing players, especially newer players. I see a Vic on the table and assume it's big, ponderous, and slow, then it rockets across the board because it was the Vic-2.

The hulls, shields, and movement stats are all locked between versions so that you have some idea of how they behave. Having more accurate stats between versions could be interesting, but it would turn the skill ceiling and learning curve way up to a point that it could be inaccessible for new players.

19 hours ago, Undeadguy said:

Oh yea. Guess that extra die makes up for the 9 point difference on top of losing a squad point.

If the balancing is that drastic with 1 die (it's also a 6 point difference on the GR-75), I can only imagine what the point difference would be for speed.

The A variant also has two blue flak. If not for the lost squadron point i think even with the 9 points you would see it a whole **** of a lot more.

23 hours ago, Snipafist said:

I'm pretty confident FFG has already considered it but for whatever reason they've been reluctant to pull the trigger. Want some proof?

See how the Assault Cruiser has the red block at the top of the speed 3 column as though the column should be filled in? I'm guessing an earlier playtest version had speed 3 but it was reduced and they forgot to recolor that block.

Oh wow, now that would be awesome and truly terrifying to behold. Especially if it still had the option for Engine techs.

On 8/8/2017 at 2:11 PM, Snipafist said:

I'm pretty confident FFG has already considered it but for whatever reason they've been reluctant to pull the trigger. Want some proof?

See how the Assault Cruiser has the red block at the top of the speed 3 column as though the column should be filled in? I'm guessing an earlier playtest version had speed 3 but it was reduced and they forgot to recolor that block.

Both Peltas are like that too.

1 hour ago, Viktor Tanek said:

Both Peltas are like that too.

maybe the "assault" adjective throws the devs off guard...