10 hours ago, LordBlades said:

What do you want then? To be able to just pick up lists and do as well as people who have actually practiced theirs?

I never said that. I said that playing a list multiple times bores me. If I only play tennis on the weekends, I do not expect to show up at Wimbledon and do well. On the other hand, I would not expect to have to use the same tennis racquet and ball EXCLUSIVELY to get better at the game.

8 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

So basically you're saying you'd prefer X-Wing to be more a game of luck than skill?

Not necessarily. I enjoy the skill of listbuilding, for example.

8 hours ago, Verlaine said:

I don't mind if luck plays a large role. It creates unforeseen situations and gives weaker players a chance, both of which broaden the appeal of the game. I couldn't say what I want to be the biggest influence, but that's hard to say anyway, because you'd have to measure 'luck' and 'skill' on the same scale.

^This.

8 hours ago, LordBlades said:

Too much luck will however drive away the competitive players. If you do everything right, outplay your opponent, but still lose a significant enough percentage of games, it's not a pleasant sensation.

I'm not a competitive player. I want to assemble a list, and play reasonable well with it the first time. I don't want to have to go to Vassal and play the list 17 times before I decide I'm ready for Saturday Night at the Dining Room Table. Because next Saturday, I want to try something else. That is hard to do with the game, and it is one of my personal NPEs.

6 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Fair enough, and you don't have to.

But if someone has played 50+ games with that list, is it not fair that they should be able to do better with it than someone who hasn't?

Of course. See the top statement.

And to be honest, I probably won't play the guy who has sharpened his list into a tournament-worthy fine edge. Because we have different wants and expectations from the game.

In fact, I seem to be unable to state a personal preference about practicing without being attacked by the Git Gud crowd for my lack of dedication to Sport-Wing.

7 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

In fact, I seem to be unable to state a personal preference about practicing without being attacked by the Git Gud crowd for my lack of dedication to Sport-Wing.

Well, to be fair, you DID say

7 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

I do not want to have to fly the same list 3 score times before I can do well with it...

I'm going to go ahead and assume by "do well" you mean win games and beat other players of all experience levels. Casual and competitive.

But by saying that you "do not - emphasis yours - want to fly the same list 3 score times" you're effectively saying you don't want to put the time and effort in to improve your own game; but you still want to see results. Which basically means you're looking for something else to pick up your slack.

11 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

But by saying that you "do not - emphasis yours - want to fly the same list 3 score times" you're effectively saying you don't want to put the time and effort in to improve your own game; but you still want to see results. Which basically means you're looking for something else to pick up your slack.

Why are you ignoring the part where he said 60 times? It seems like a fairly important modifier to his general statement.

It's lately become "fashionable" to talk about "reps" with X-Wing. X-Wing is going full bro-mode. Awesome.

1 minute ago, Jeff Wilder said:

Why are you ignoring the part where he said 60 times? It seems like a fairly important modifier to his general statement.

I'm not ignoring it, Jeff. In fact I'm pretty sure I quoted it. In fact, I'm pretty sure you quoted me quoting it.

Hyperbolic arguments bite both ways, don'tchaknow.

21 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

I'm going to go ahead and assume by "do well" you mean win games and beat other players of all experience levels. Casual and competitive.

But by saying that you "do not - emphasis yours - want to fly the same list 3 score times" you're effectively saying you don't want to put the time and effort in to improve your own game; but you still want to see results. Which basically means you're looking for something else to pick up your slack.

Sorry, but all of your assumptions are incorrect, through no fault of yours, so I'll explain better:

"Do well" does not mean "win games." I know it is hard for a lot of people to fathom, but I play to play. Winning is cool, and the outcome I am working towards, but "doing well" encompasses the notion of simply playing the game well, having a challenging and not lop-sided experience, and maybe having just a little bit of luck make or break you. I want to walk home titillated by the day; having a pocket full of swag is not my goal.

I also did not say I didn't want to put in any effort. I do not want to play the EXACT SAME LIST 50+ times. If I play XWM for 6 months, I should (and hopefully will) become a better player, regardless of what list I bring to the table. This is often not the case with XWM, and the Git Gud crowd implies that I will have to fly the same list over and over again. Personal NPE: experiences may vary. Moreover, I have no interest in this as a sport. . .I play cuz Star Wars, so I will never win vs. a tournament player, nor do want to.

12 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

I'm not ignoring it, Jeff. In fact I'm pretty sure I quoted it. In fact, I'm pretty sure you quoted me quoting it.

Hyperbolic arguments bite both ways, don'tchaknow.

Yes, you quoted it. And then ignored it in the attack of the quote. So I'm asking why.

There is a difference between "I don't want have to practice this list to get better flying it," and "I don't want to have to practice this list 60 times to be at all competitive." You've solidly dismantled the first statement, but that's not the statement he made.

I don't know about quitting but this game is too out of whack to me to play seriously. It's good for casual play and I like it strictly for that.