6 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

You mean... could it be that FFG actually gets the right ships at the right time with a nerf?!
All we need more is the infamous Biggs nerf for which Selflessness is basically paving the way... right? Right?

Biggs Nerf: This text should read.

Biggs can't be target of friendly abilities or friendly card effects, that remove or reduce damage.

Or

Add this to first line of card

"While Not Stressed"

7 minutes ago, WAC47 said:

It is interesting that the proposed changes match up very closely to what the data say is dominating right now. Say what you will about FFG's playtesting, but this seems to be right on the money (if those changes end up happening).

I mean the general consensus the leaked nerfs was that they looked really good and hit the right things, but that Biggs was missing. I think bombs still don't get hit hard enough for how unpleasant an unpreventable damage mechanic is - Miranda switches to Experimental Interface and Nym is untouched.

Thanks @SOTL, nice to skirt endless opinions and look at well displayed data; nice job! FFG designers need to get the FAQ ----including making Biggs Jedi mindtrick ability game rational----together quick and publish it while the game is still remembered as fun....make haste guys.

42 minutes ago, SOTL said:

I mean the general consensus the leaked nerfs was that they looked really good and hit the right things, but that Biggs was missing. I think bombs still don't get hit hard enough for how unpleasant an unpreventable damage mechanic is - Miranda switches to Experimental Interface and Nym is untouched.

That's fair. I play low agility, high hull ships so I've got my own biases. In terms of power level I think the switch to EI (the extra point and stress makes a difference) and lack of a jumpmaster wingman may be just enough to bring Miranda and Nym back in line with other ships. But that doesn't solve the NPE problem of auto damage for high agi, low hull ace players.

Speaking of my personal bias, I'm terrified what a Biggs nerf might do to my beloved ARC-170s. But absolutely recognize it's a problem, and have high hopes for Low and selflessness to fill in the gap.

12 minutes ago, WAC47 said:

That's fair. I play low agility, high hull ships so I've got my own biases. In terms of power level I think the switch to EI (the extra point and stress makes a difference) and lack of a jumpmaster wingman may be just enough to bring Miranda and Nym back in line with other ships. But that doesn't solve the NPE problem of auto damage for high agi, low hull ace players.

Speaking of my personal bias, I'm terrified what a Biggs nerf might do to my beloved ARC-170s. But absolutely recognize it's a problem, and have high hopes for Low and selflessness to fill in the gap.

See that's what I'm most afraid of with the Biggs nerf is the downstream effect of absolutely killing ships which had a remote chance at viability via Biggs (ie were designed explicitly with Biggs in mind).

If FFG had a track record of mostly buffing over mostly nerfing (seems to be the opposite), and doing it fairly frequently than I wouldn't be too concerned about a Biggs change. As it stands I think it is far more likely that a they will overdo the Biggs nerf, miss the sweet spot, and then a whole portion of the rebel fleet will languish for a long time. A long long time.

1 minute ago, Gibbilo said:

If FFG had a track record of mostly buffing over mostly nerfing (seems to be the opposite), and doing it fairly frequently than I wouldn't be too concerned about a Biggs change. As it stands I think it is far more likely that a they will overdo the Biggs nerf, miss the sweet spot, and then a whole portion of the rebel fleet will languish for a long time. A long long time.

Long as rebels have miri, they'll be aokay

Still don't get the hate on bombs or nym apart from unavoidable ACTION bombs

If you get rid of dengar, nym becomes infinetly more manageable. Had to stop playing Denym because really Nym was just a cruise missile caddie to skew the initial engagement enough such that dengar just cleaned house. Was really boring

Mind giving us some insight as to some of the tier 1.5 lists for each faction? I think I found that graph most interesting of the ones you presented.

32 minutes ago, WAC47 said:

That's fair. I play low agility, high hull ships so I've got my own biases. In terms of power level I think the switch to EI (the extra point and stress makes a difference) and lack of a jumpmaster wingman may be just enough to bring Miranda and Nym back in line with other ships. But that doesn't solve the NPE problem of auto damage for high agi, low hull ace players.

Speaking of my personal bias, I'm terrified what a Biggs nerf might do to my beloved ARC-170s. But absolutely recognize it's a problem, and have high hopes for Low and selflessness to fill in the gap.

Yep, nerf Biggs and I'll kiss my beloved Norra goodbye and start playing Scum.

14 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Long as rebels have miri, they'll be aokay

Just to be clear, I'm not super worried about the viability of rebels as a faction without Biggs. I just love 3-4 ship lists, and I'm not a big fan of fat turret + ace. Nerfing Biggs puts the first in danger and potentially makes the second the default option (Assuming enough of the meta stays the same, and rebel swarms remain on the fringes competitively. Always in motion is the future...)

4 minutes ago, WAC47 said:

Just to be clear, I'm not super worried about the viability of rebels as a faction without Biggs. I just love 3-4 ship lists, and I'm not a big fan of fat turret + ace. Nerfing Biggs puts the first in danger and potentially makes the second the default option (Assuming enough of the meta stays the same, and rebel swarms remain on the fringes competitively. Always in motion is the future...)

Don't disagree here

I'm a man who loves his ARCs

2 hours ago, the1hodgy said:

"While Not Stressed"

I don't dislike this. My idea was a simple "Once per round" addition, but that works as well. We would see the Stresshog make a reappearance though you understand.

My idea for a Biggs nerf that doesn't hurt to much or to little.

This card should read: At the start of the combat phase, assign an evade token to each friendly ship at range 1. When a friendly ship spends an evade token to cancel a hit or critical hit, you suffer the canceled result.

5 hours ago, SOTL said:

Tier 1 = Triple Jumps, Dengar/Tel, Dengar/Nym, Fair Ship Rebel, Dash/Miranda

This is the one I like least. 68% of squads are significantly loaded up with turrets. 68%! What's also noticeable is that we've moved on from Dash/Corran or Han/Jake to the point where a main turret ship is often now being supported by a second turret, and not just a second turret but ALSO bringing torpedoes and bombs. Turrets and bombs in particular is like playing rock/paper/scissors with a pair of scissors strapped to a rock, because bombs nail most of the stuff that brings autothrusters for the turrets.

Personal opinion - I'd like to see primary weapons squads a much bigger %. I mean the only reason primary weapons are even >15% is Fair Ship Rebels...

And so ends X-wing. I'll wait for MJ's houserules, I have no interest in playing against a thousand FSR/Bomb/TLT lists.

3 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

Still don't get the hate on bombs or nym apart from unavoidable ACTION bombs

If you get rid of dengar, nym becomes infinetly more manageable. Had to stop playing Denym because really Nym was just a cruise missile caddie to skew the initial engagement enough such that dengar just cleaned house. Was really boring

Adv sensors EU Nym effectively uses reveal bombs in the same way K-wings currently use action bombs. You know the board state and then can BR/boost for a pre or post move drop to an absurd number of new locations, including bumping. If adv SLAM was a problem because it made hitting with bombs too easy and unavoidable then by that standard Nym is also a problem.

Also the proposed changes don't do anything to K4 + unhinged + expertise Dengar which coincidentally fits perfectly with adv sensors EU Nym...

5 minutes ago, Makaze said:

Adv sensors EU Nym effectively uses reveal bombs in the same way K-wings currently use action bombs. You know the board state and then can BR/boost for a pre or post move drop to an absurd number of new locations, including bumping. If adv SLAM was a problem because it made hitting with bombs too easy and unavoidable then by that standard Nym is also a problem.

Also the proposed changes don't do anything to K4 + unhinged + expertise Dengar which coincidentally fits perfectly with adv sensors EU Nym...

Advanced sensors eu nym is stupid expensive and offensively challenged

At that point, I'd happily eat those bombs knowing those 37+ points are doing very little to earn themselves back

As for the proposed leak faq, we still have no idea if it's at all real. They do, however, remove dengar plasma torps which is already a help even cruise + plasma obscene alpha potential

Pie charts hurt my eyes.

16 minutes ago, skins1924 said:

Pie charts hurt my eyes.

Trivial pursuit mem'ries,

1 hour ago, ficklegreendice said:

Advanced sensors eu nym is stupid expensive and offensively challenged

At that point, I'd happily eat those bombs knowing those 37+ points are doing very little to earn themselves back

Have you played with/against him yet? He's not an offensive powerhouse, he's a defensive one. If he doesn't want to get shot he generally won't, either by arc dodging or bumping, and he can still deal very consistent if low damage in return. The entire idea is that it doesn't matter what you do, he'll either go past and bomb you or he'll bump and still bomb you. Either way you get hit by a bomb and don't get a shot at him, your dial setting is while not quite irrelevant, nearly so. And that's the heart of the problem with both him and adv SLAM, not the sheer damage output, but the fact that it's largely unavoidable and it doesn't take much damage at all to drive certain ships out of the game.

He's well worth the (more than 37) points and the meta results are clearly backing that up.

Thanks for sharing, @SOTL. The graphs both confirmed some conclusions I had come to and surprised me about how some lists were doing.

Quick question: are Lancers counted as turrets or primaries?

We have mathematically proven that X-wing is broken.

Time to move to a more balanced game, like Star Trek Attack Wing

21 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

Thanks for sharing, @SOTL. The graphs both confirmed some conclusions I had come to and surprised me about how some lists were doing.

Quick question: are Lancers counted as turrets or primaries?

Primaries.

I still can't believe the release of Nym. I just cant believe that they designed such a blatantly OP ship + pilot to a meta where fragile ships were already being completely pushed out by auto-damage and turrets. The sheer stupidity of them thinking the game needed a PS10 perfect-knowledge-of-game-state mover, immune to his own bombs, turret carrying, 10HP, auto-damage MONSTER is just staggering. Honestly, they need to fire the current devs and get someone who understands balance, at least a little. Complete incompetence.

Nym is not OP

Exploit 1 agility

and you can beat him.

Yeah, I'm also personally not seeing the terror that is nym

Quite a few people fly him locally and no one's done particularly well with him. People know that 1 agi and a single roll aren't that difficult to bring down, esp when they're used to **** like dash

Problem might be that no one flies him with Dengar