I'm trying to see if my logic holds here with the FFG Sloan ruling.

FFG has ruled:

" A squadron forces the defender to spend a Defense token, and the Defender does not gain the advantage of the defense token having been spent. Furthermore, the Defender CANNOT spend the token themselves (now discarding it) for the effect, because the token has already been spent."

So a Sloan squadron attacks Whisper and uses Sloan to spend the scatter. Can Whisper trigger her ability to move?

I would think yes because technically the defender spent the token just not for an effect. Is that right?

I'd say no, because Whisper says: "If you (Whisper) spent a defense token..." and with Sloane it's the opponent who's spending the defense token, not you

8 minutes ago, Mala said:

I'm trying to see if my logic holds here with the FFG Sloan ruling.

FFG has ruled:

" A squadron forces the defender to spend a Defense token, and the Defender does not gain the advantage of the defense token having been spent. Furthermore, the Defender CANNOT spend the token themselves (now discarding it) for the effect, because the token has already been spent."

So a Sloan squadron attacks Whisper and uses Sloan to spend the scatter. Can Whisper trigger her ability to move?

I would think yes because technically the defender spent the token just not for an effect. Is that right?

An Argument is No

However, we won't know explicitly until this - and another related question is officially answered. (That issue being Grand Inquisitor vs Comms Noise vs G8 vs Konstantine)

The precedence is that although the token is being spent (that is not under argument), it is who is spending it... For the purposes of Sloane, it was generally considered that Sloane was the one spending it - the attacker is having it spent, the defender just flips the token because you don't touch your opponents stuff, generally speaking..

If the attacker is spending the Token, then the Defender was not spending the Token. Which allowed the whole issue to be...

Because Sloane is the one who is spending the t

With Whisper, it states "if you "

And the argument is that Whisper's token was Spent. But Sloane spent it. Whisper did not spend it. Whisper does not apply.

However, this is another case where we have a "Wording" that was presented 3rd Party, and until that wording is specific and clarified as RULES, rather than ADVICE, its impossible to know the Intention behind the Wording....

How this one is precedent-ed will have issues either with the way other things are derived, or how it derives from others......

If, for example, you claim precedence that the defender is the one spending the token, even if the attacker is the one forcing him to do it - then the Grand Inquisitor will trigger anytime that a Ship changes speed... Voluntarily, Involuntarily, Konstantine, etc. Which might be outside of its scope...

TL:DR

If you want to claim the above wording presented by Q as a direct transcript and RAW - then yes. Whisper will move if Sloane makes her spend a defense Token .

But be careful that such a strict interaction has further follow-on effects that you may not be aware of.

As written, I don't think it would. The card states "You" meaning the phantom needed to spend the defense token.

"• On squadron cards, the term “you” refers to the squadron resolving the effect."-RRG page 12 under Squadron



When defending against a sloane attack, the attacker "spends" the token not the defender.

Just now, Darth Sanguis said:

As written, I don't think it would. The card states "You" meaning the phantom needed to spend the defense token.

"• On squadron cards, the term “you” refers to the squadron resolving the effect."-RRG page 12 under Squadron



When defending against a sloane attack, the attacker "spends" the token not the defender.

As quoted though, the "FFG Ruling is" (italic emphasis mine)

" A squadron forces the defender to spend a Defense token, and the Defender does not gain the advantage of the defense token having been spent. Furthermore, the Defender CANNOT spend the token themselves (now discarding it) for the effect, because the token has already been spent."

And if that is the case, then by the strictest of RAW (being that is this a Rule, as Written), Whisper would trigger.

Is that intended? Not a **** clue.

Just now, Drasnighta said:

As quoted though, the "FFG Ruling is" (italic emphasis mine)

" A squadron forces the defender to spend a Defense token, and the Defender does not gain the advantage of the defense token having been spent. Furthermore, the Defender CANNOT spend the token themselves (now discarding it) for the effect, because the token has already been spent."

And if that is the case, then by the strictest of RAW (being that is this a Rule, as Written), Whisper would trigger.

Is that intended? Not a **** clue.

Now I see it..... wow what a cluster****

My personal distinction:

The "RAW" given is advice, not RAW. Its a direct Interpretation of "RAI".

So I do not believe that Whisper would trigger, as Sloane is doing the Spending - how do you interpret that? by having the Defender be forced to spend it, without mechanically, the defender actually spending it...

It will depend on how it is presented.

If it were placed in the FAQ section entitled "Errata", it becomes RAW.

If it were placed in the FAQ section entitled "Clarifications", it becomes RAI.

1 minute ago, Drasnighta said:

My personal distinction:

The "RAW" given is advice, not RAW. Its a direct Interpretation of "RAI".

So I do not believe that Whisper would trigger, as Sloane is doing the Spending - how do you interpret that? by having the Defender be forced to spend it, without mechanically, the defender actually spending it...

It will depend on how it is presented.

If it were placed in the FAQ section entitled "Errata", it becomes RAW.

If it were placed in the FAQ section entitled "Clarifications", it becomes RAI.

I just tried to PM you about this, I was gonna ask. lol

BTW do you have your messages shut off?

28 minutes ago, Mala said:

I'm trying to see if my logic holds here with the FFG Sloan ruling.

FFG has ruled:

" A squadron forces the defender to spend a Defense token, and the Defender does not gain the advantage of the defense token having been spent. Furthermore, the Defender CANNOT spend the token themselves (now discarding it) for the effect, because the token has already been spent."

So a Sloan squadron attacks Whisper and uses Sloan to spend the scatter. Can Whisper trigger her ability to move?

I would think yes because technically the defender spent the token just not for an effect. Is that right?

No.

YOU (Whisper) must spend the token.

2 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

I just tried to PM you about this, I was gonna ask. lol

BTW do you have your messages shut off?

My Inbox jumped from 54% to 102% overnight .

Just now, Drasnighta said:

My Inbox jumped from 54% to 102% overnight .

That's insane!

1 hour ago, Green Knight said:

No.

YOU (Whisper) must spend the token.

This. The dev ruling does not mean the defender spend the token. People really need to stop with this ****, the ruling is not confusing, Sloane is not confusing. The section of the defense token rules are not confusing, they must be read as worded. All the bullet points are for the defender, except for the one that does not specify its for the defender. This is why Sloane locks the token and spends it, because a token can only be spent once per attack by EITHER PLAYER. But only the defender can resolve their own effects with them.

Sloane simply locks a token and spend it. The defender cannot use it, no effect is gained. Thats how you explain her. Shes a regular accuracy that spends a token and cant be ECM.

18 hours ago, mintek917 said:

The dev ruling does not mean the defender spend the token.

But the dev said those exact words. I'm not sure how you go from "the dev said the defender spends the token" to "the defender doesn't spend the token."

Sure, it's probably sloppy working on his part. Hopefully, he will correct it. But right now, it is The Word.

It's only "The Word" if it is on a card, in the rulebook, or in an FAQ.

Emails, tweets, smoke signals, hand jive...none of that is official.

6 hours ago, JgzMan said:

But the dev said those exact words. I'm not sure how you go from "the dev said the defender spends the token" to "the defender doesn't spend the token."

Sure, it's probably sloppy working on his part. Hopefully, he will correct it. But right now, it is The Word.

The quote is someone speaking to someone else in private and not to be taken as rules by themselves. Otherwise XI7 faq might not exist right now. You do force the other player to spend the token, hes on the other side of the table you dont cross the table to flip it for him. But the squadron is the one producing the effect, hes the one spending your accuracy icon and spending the token. In the same ruling, he even says that it does NOT produce an advantage. When the attacker spends your token, even outside of Sloane, none of your defense token effect will trigger on anything, ever, until a new card is introduced that does it.

If you read the quote and its conclusion from Q, its that RAW must be used. Because the enemy player being the one doing the spend effect by himself, makes him unable to use redundant defense token if only one is locked. Meaning Sloane would murder every double brace Ace, but the same quote says otherwise. Aka The ruling is RAW. RAW is the squadron does the effect, because its what the card is written doing and what the defense token rule book is saying. Anything else is unimportant until a Faq is made either saying otherwise.