The hype machine seemed to work for Starfinder and that rules system ended up by deing ho hum. You can do live play broadcasts, regular tweets, etc.
Doubt you could hack the system from a few articles even a live gameplay. Starfinder still sold like hotcakes.
1 hour ago, TrainedMunkey said:The hype machine seemed to work for Starfinder and that rules system ended up by deing ho hum. You can do live play broadcasts, regular tweets, etc.
Doubt you could hack the system from a few articles even a live gameplay. Starfinder still sold like hotcakes.
For Starfinder, I'm not sure there were really many big surprises between preview articles and final product other than ship construction and rules (which are REALLY ho hum) so those buying the book when it hit the shelves knew what they were getting into. Likewise, there was little reason to hack Starfinder at that time because it didn't pretend to be a generic core. It's a space opera RP system with a very specific setting.
For Genesys, we can make assumptions based on Star Wars, but we know from the Terrinoth Genesys playtest characters that they extended quite a lot from the early Edge of the Empire days of the engine. Problem is, we have no idea how those characters got built other than apparently they were fairly advanced (like 200ish XP above start). We have no idea about either the breadth or depth of the magic system (other than it looks to cost 2 stress as a base for anything you want to cast) or how much spells cost in terms of XP. So yeah, you can't hack Genesys right now other than extrapolating from what you THINK is its basic framework.
And ironically I would like to adapt Starfinder to Genesys.
Edited by Dragonshadow2 hours ago, Lordmhoram said:I wonder (the cynical side of me) if the reason for lack of info is that if they give too much, people could take that to hack SW and then not buy the book. The beancounters are worried so not enough info.
I think that's overly cynical and without much of a basis in history with them, to date.
FFG have always been the Mercedes Benz of games companies, compared to the Ford that is WOTC. Premium output, no corners cut, and entrusting that the overall quality of the product will justify the price point.
There may simply be no easy way to pimp the system without giving too much away. We know the mechanics, but if you think about it a lot of the rules we know from Star Wars are contingent on knowing talent or skill names. There could be a perfectly reasonable explanation which is "if we try and explain combat, we have to give too much away so we won't."
FFG seems to play things close to their chest with a lot of their products. I can I only assume their marketing department has weighed the pros and cons of such a tactic.
15 hours ago, Dragonshadow said:For Starfinder, I'm not sure there were really many big surprises between preview articles and final product other than ship construction and rules (which are REALLY ho hum) so those buying the book when it hit the shelves knew what they were getting into. Likewise, there was little reason to hack Starfinder at that time because it didn't pretend to be a generic core. It's a space opera RP system with a very specific setting.
For Genesys, we can make assumptions based on Star Wars, but we know from the Terrinoth Genesys playtest characters that they extended quite a lot from the early Edge of the Empire days of the engine. Problem is, we have no idea how those characters got built other than apparently they were fairly advanced (like 200ish XP above start). We have no idea about either the breadth or depth of the magic system (other than it looks to cost 2 stress as a base for anything you want to cast) or how much spells cost in terms of XP. So yeah, you can't hack Genesys right now other than extrapolating from what you THINK is its basic framework.
And ironically I would like to adapt Starfinder to Genesys.
The point being that the core book of Starfinder sold very well at least.
I might actually play Starfinder if it used Genesys rules. The setting is good, just not really impressed by the rules, seems like watered down Pathfinder to me. I don't run Pathfinder either.
They really should consider a quick start based on one of their demo's.
Just leave a note mentioning it's a taster of what to expect noting the full rules will be both better and well worth picking up!
More interested in that podcast to be honest!
Edited by copperbell5 hours ago, TrainedMunkey said:The point being that the core book of Starfinder sold very well at least.
I might actually play Starfinder if it used Genesys rules. The setting is good, just not really impressed by the rules, seems like watered down Pathfinder to me. I don't run Pathfinder either.
Exactly. They put out good information, in no way misleading, and TONS of people bought the game. I can't figure out why FFG would do otherwise. Nothing whets the appetite more than a free sample. If the product is something they're very pleased to release with no qualifiers, then they need to do a much better job of getting the game in front of people.
I've complained enough though. Sorry to anyone who's read more than one of my posts about this topic. I am hopeful they'll pick up on the discontent of some of us on this forum, or even that we're all just being entitled and impatient geeks and the flood of previews was already scheduled to start imminently. I hope so.
Edited by Dragonshadow1 hour ago, Dragonshadow said:I've complained enough though. Sorry to anyone who's read more than one of my posts about this topic. I am hopeful they'll pick up on the discontent of some of us on this forum, or even that we're all just being entitled and impatient geeks and the flood of previews was already scheduled to start imminently. I hope so.
I have the exact same sentiments. That's why I am a bit worried that they might neglect Genesys like for example Green Ronin neglects their house system AGE. Already they do not use Genesys for their new RP setting L5R (I know, many will argue narrative dice won't fit L5R but they already use some hybrid narrative dice system in their beta. beats me why they did not dare to go full Genesys). And I daresay if they managed to do archetypes, talents and supernatural/magic powers right, narrative dice could cover any possible setting.
Edited by DarthDude53 minutes ago, DarthDude said:I have the exact same sentiments. That's why I am a bit worried that they might neglect Genesys like for example Green Ronin neglects they house system AGE. Already they do not use Genesys for their new RP setting L5R (I know, many will argue narrative dice won't fit L5R but they already use some hybrid narrative dice system in their beta. beats me why they did not dare to go full Genesys). And I daresay if they managed to do archetypes, talents and supernatural/magic powers right, narrative dice could cover any possible setting.
This is why we need the community to help promote and advance the system.
I am not going to lie, when the Star Wars Edge of the Empire beta book came out, I scoffed at the game and these strange symbol covered dice. I only picked up the game when they release Force and Destiny. After just one session I quickly discovered the power of the narrative system and dice, and now I have the hardest time playing other games. I keep rolling my D20 in my D&D game and wishing that there were a couple advantage on them so I could trigger my weapons knockdown quality.
Nostalgia aside, I think that Genisys has very solid potential to really take hold in the RPG community, and the more visibility we give it, the more viable that potential will be reached.
They are probably holding off on new articles until they are closer to release. It would be much worse for them to release a bunch of info now and then have nothing for 2 months until the book is released.
Yeah, where has this suspicion of FFG as out to screw gamers over come from? They're a business, so suggesting they're going to neglect a product like Genesys is a bit stupid, quite frankly - it's their in house narrative dice engine, with literally limitless application. But, it's also expanded from an engine linked to a licenced intellectual property and it's hard to really define it without adding a lot of detail. You can't give mechanics for how chases occur, on foot and in vehicle, without hinting at talents and skills. You can't describe combat without picking a side between brawling, melee, or ranged weapons and then you have to start giving information on how weapon tech trees are applied (bows vs firearms, for example).
The game is coming. The game has positive reception encircling it like a halo, from its Gencon appearance. Logically, as in if people stop and think and resist the urge to apply anxious emotion to it - there's not much they can say at this point. The social interactions article was completely silent on rules . It was a discussion of their theory of social interaction in the context of an understood (but not seen) set of mechanics. It was something, but I would also ask - was it?
Will you really feel better about life and Genesys if an article that, without citing any rule or mechanic, talks about how combat works? If the answer is "yes", then Genesys is neither your problem nor the answer to your problems.
To reinforce my point above,
FFG announced Star Wars Legion at Gen Con. Certainly a huge product line for them, announced just days after they announced genesys, and that game has not had a single news article since the announcement.
FFG knows their schedule, they have the most accurate info on what products are coming out when and how much news the want/can release and when they want to do so.
15 hours ago, Endersai said:Yeah, where has this suspicion of FFG as out to screw gamers over come from? They're a business, so suggesting they're going to neglect a product like Genesys is a bit stupid, quite frankly - it's their in house narrative dice engine, with literally limitless application. But, it's also expanded from an engine linked to a licenced intellectual property and it's hard to really define it without adding a lot of detail. You can't give mechanics for how chases occur, on foot and in vehicle, without hinting at talents and skills. You can't describe combat without picking a side between brawling, melee, or ranged weapons and then you have to start giving information on how weapon tech trees are applied (bows vs firearms, for example).
The game is coming. The game has positive reception encircling it like a halo, from its Gencon appearance. Logically, as in if people stop and think and resist the urge to apply anxious emotion to it - there's not much they can say at this point. The social interactions article was completely silent on rules . It was a discussion of their theory of social interaction in the context of an understood (but not seen) set of mechanics. It was something, but I would also ask - was it?
Will you really feel better about life and Genesys if an article that, without citing any rule or mechanic, talks about how combat works? If the answer is "yes", then Genesys is neither your problem nor the answer to your problems.
1. Genesys doesn't have much effect on whether I feel good about my life or not. If you take statements on a forum personally ...
2. I am very excited for this system and looking forward to running it. Not looking forward to trying to converting my D&D group over fantasy Genesys. That will be a social conflict for sure.
3. I am speaking from experience and following the hobby I love in depth for about 40 years.
4. If you are trying to promote/sell a new generic rpg system, it's not a good idea to release another game that uses a totally different system, even if in beta.
5. You can totally release articles explaining all the above you mentioned, host game plays and still sell a game like hot cakes. Hot cakes are very delicious. Can we agree on that?
It's about promotion, if they want the game to be more widely accepted, you have to promote it. I want this game to succeed.
6. Thanks for bring passionate about the game.
7. Sorry for derailing this thread.
1 hour ago, TrainedMunkey said:I am very excited for this system and looking forward to running it. Not looking forward to trying to converting my D&D group over fantasy Genesys. That will be a social conflict for sure.
I feel the same way and will have the same issues. From my experience, you will need to treat them as a minion group. You will need to make a charm or deception roll against the group. For each player in the group, add one difficulty die. Each player above 5 upgrades one difficulty die to a challenge die. For each player that has only played D&D (or derivative), add 1 setback die. Such groups are immune to force powers but you may add a single boost die if you provide a minimum of two boxes of donuts during this encounter.
Edited by lyinggodspeaking of converting from D&D (or in my case Pathfinder/Starfinder) to Genesys, are there some good examples of really powerful (and VARIED) monsters scattered across the Star Wars material? I only own the first two books. Some specific book suggestions would be great. I'm not looking for ones that are just bigger bags of wound thresholds, but ones that have unusual abilities. Although that said, I'd like to see some really huge critters too. The Genesys core can't possibly offer more than a tiny sampling of creatures for a particular genre, so there's going to need to be a lot of homebrewing, at least in advance of genre-specific setting books. The Star Wars stuff is all we have for now, but I want to get to planning in advance.
Sorry if this is a bit Off Topic for this thread, but the conversation already leaned in this direction.
Edited by Dragonshadow3 minutes ago, Dragonshadow said:speaking of converting from D&D (or in my case Pathfinder/Starfinder) to Genesys, are there some good examples of really powerful (and VARIED) monsters scattered across the Star Wars material? I only own the first two books. Some specific book suggestions would be great. I'm not looking for ones that are just bigger bags of wound thresholds, but ones that have unusual abilities. Although that said, I'd like to see some really huge critters too. The Genesys core can't possibly offer more than a tiny sampling of creatures for a particular genre, so there's going to need to be a lot of homebrewing, at least in advance of genre-specific setting books. The Star Wars stuff is all we have for now, but I want to get to planning in advance.
Youza lookie lookie here
11 minutes ago, Dragonshadow said:speaking of converting from D&D (or in my case Pathfinder/Starfinder) to Genesys, are there some good examples of really powerful (and VARIED) monsters scattered across the Star Wars material? I only own the first two books. Some specific book suggestions would be great. I'm not looking for ones that are just bigger bags of wound thresholds, but ones that have unusual abilities. Although that said, I'd like to see some really huge critters too. The Genesys core can't possibly offer more than a tiny sampling of creatures for a particular genre, so there's going to need to be a lot of homebrewing, at least in advance of genre-specific setting books. The Star Wars stuff is all we have for now, but I want to get to planning in advance.
Sorry if this is a bit Off Topic for this thread, but the conversation already leaned in this direction.
This is a fan bestiary of about 140 odd beasts that someone put together a few years ago with pictures, stats, etc. Its appearance and layout show that he put a lot of effort into putting this together (IMO). Some of the beasts may have become official since then in various publications. This is not my link, it came from red it.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B01fjdCZKfnnTVBteUJITVlnbGc/view?usp=sharing
Edited by lyinggod1 hour ago, DarthDude said:Youza lookie lookie here
1 hour ago, lyinggod said:This is a fan bestiary of about 140 odd beasts that someone put together a few years ago with pictures, stats, etc. Its appearance and layout show that he put a lot of effort into putting this together (IMO). Some of the beasts may have become official since then in various publications. This is not my link, it came from red it.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B01fjdCZKfnnTVBteUJITVlnbGc/view?usp=sharing
AWESOME!!! Thank you!
19 hours ago, Endersai said:Yeah, where has this suspicion of FFG as out to screw gamers over come from? They're a business, so suggesting they're going to neglect a product like Genesys is a bit stupid, quite frankly - it's their in house narrative dice engine, with literally limitless application. But, it's also expanded from an engine linked to a licenced intellectual property and it's hard to really define it without adding a lot of detail. You can't give mechanics for how chases occur, on foot and in vehicle, without hinting at talents and skills. You can't describe combat without picking a side between brawling, melee, or ranged weapons and then you have to start giving information on how weapon tech trees are applied (bows vs firearms, for example).
The game is coming. The game has positive reception encircling it like a halo, from its Gencon appearance. Logically, as in if people stop and think and resist the urge to apply anxious emotion to it - there's not much they can say at this point. The social interactions article was completely silent on rules . It was a discussion of their theory of social interaction in the context of an understood (but not seen) set of mechanics. It was something, but I would also ask - was it?
Will you really feel better about life and Genesys if an article that, without citing any rule or mechanic, talks about how combat works? If the answer is "yes", then Genesys is neither your problem nor the answer to your problems.
I don't think FFG is out to screw gamers... never said that. But like TrainedMunkey, I've been into RPGs since 1970-something. I've seen companies do great marketing campaigns and not so great ones. The products tend not to fare as well with the not so great ones. That's the business... you gin up hype or you don't.
Again, look at what Ulisses Spiele is doing with Torg. The announced time frame for release of the printed book is about the same: Q4 (you know we're in Q4, right?)... you say FFG can't describe chases: They did for Torg . You claim it's wrong to release details on Talents... For Torg perks they delivered two articles: One on March 23rd and one a week later . There are 5 pages of articles hyping the system. At this point they've moved on to hyping the first supplement... FFG can in fact release all sorts of info about the system. For some reason they are choosing not to.
Since you've asked, the article on social interactions didn't really move me much. It was the earlier one on Character Creation that has me wound up in the best of ways... there's a ton of info in there... basic archetypes, two talents, role-based careers and setting-specific careers, the promise that they'd talk about talents and skills later (which could be now), the four types of motivations... any of those could and should be expanded upon in it's own article.
Personally I'm jazzed as ****. I can't wait to get a copy. But they should be trying to reach out past the converted to the wider world. Get some articles out (preferably weekly), get on some podcasts, demos, etc... do whatever you need to do to create some hype.
17 minutes ago, dlw32 said:Personally I'm jazzed as ****. I can't wait to get a copy. But they should be trying to reach out past the converted to the wider world. Get some articles out (preferably weekly), get on some podcasts, demos, etc... do whatever you need to do to create some hype.
This
For Genesys to succeed they need to promote to others, not the folks on these forums anxiously awaiting it's release.
I could care less about what kind of sneak peaks they release personally. It will be releasing very soon. I can wait. What worries me is getting some momentum behind it. Getting word out to the masses.
Look at how vibrant the L5R beta forum is and it will take FFG way longer to publish a final product. Genesys will be in the shelves way ahead. So Genesys is already in print, it cannot be changed anymore. So it won't do any harm to leak more info for an already finalized product.
It reminds me a bit of bad movies, the makers are aware that they are bad, so they try everything to silence critics ahead of release to lure moviegoers into the cinema the first couple of days. I know this is a far fetched comparison an I am full of confidence in FFG. Still it feels a bit odd and frustrating.
Chiming in again. I love the dice system. I love the basic mechanics of the Star Wars game, so I have little reason to think the genericized version will be less than awesome. What I saw of the Terrinoth playtest looks great, but it raises a bunch of questions for how they built the characters. The playtest writeup showed the actual players had the same questions.
I'm planning to convert the Starfinder setting to Genesys but still preserve the feel of the unique classes to Starfinder (Solarian, Mystic, Technomage, and even the Mechanic), so that'll take time and effort. I'm able to start an actual Starfinder campaign whenever the group cares to do so, but I'd rather put my time now into starting a conversion. We're currently on a Pathfinder AP that can go a few months yet, but I'd rather not be totally jammed at the end trying to figure out how to do the conversion after I dig into Genesys with little foreknowledge. Preview articles can at least head off the worst of the mistakes I could make in advance. How are Starfinder careers structured in terms of the basic trees and spell lists? Any of that stuff would be really, really useful to know.
I loved the Sky Wars implementation, but I don't get the sense that Genesys is following that homebrew closely enough for me to do so in the meantime.
I'm pretty much sold on Genesys already (especially if they release a PDF concurrently) unless they unexpectedly drop the ball. But I'm 100% certain I'm going to have a lot of conversion work to do and am eager to jump in.
Edited by DragonshadowWatch this space
Going for a dip in the deep end soon, or so it would appear.
Not to be too self-promoty, but I do an RPG discussion show with some friends called Split the Party . While it's not entirely devoted to Genesys, we have talked a lot about the anticipation of it, and plan to cover it pretty extensively once it's released.