Dengar + Nym can beat it fairly well since they can target specific pieces with Ordnance and Dengar's ability doesn't have to target Biggs. Plus Nym's bombs and ABT are nasty if you can get in there and start bumping to avoid damage.

15 hours ago, ZealuxMyr said:

Best counter I've seen is Kestral + Double Edge with Ruthlessness & TLTs. Then you throw in an additional ace (Quickdraw) with assault missiles and can take Rex off the board turn 1 as a side effect of attacking the list.

IMO, going all in on Ruthlessness is going to hurt you in your non-FSR matchups. Vessery rocking it I can kinda see, his EPT slot can be pretty adaptable, but the Aggressors need to use their slot more effectively across a wider spectrum.

THAT and two copies of Ruthlessness can be actually harmful to yourself if you're not constantly careful with positioning. One copy is fairly easy to mitigate, but two just causes that much more of a headache, especially if you're up against something like Dengar.

41 minutes ago, ArbitraryNerd said:

IMO, going all in on Ruthlessness is going to hurt you in your non-FSR matchups. Vessery rocking it I can kinda see, his EPT slot can be pretty adaptable, but the Aggressors need to use their slot more effectively across a wider spectrum.

Exactly. Vessery, specifically TIE/D, is the best pilot for Ruthlessness because of his ability. He'll trigger it twice, and both shots can be modded. It's a lot of points, admittadly, but the only list where Ruthlessness struggles is Lone Wolf lists. Most jousting lists all want to stay within close range of each other, and even with flanking ships, it's hard to stay outside of range 1 when the furball starts. I've been using it for the past couple of games, and I can say that it can do a lot of damage very quickly. Free damage should never be underestimated.

I'm more sold on Assault Missiles than Ruthlessness, at least where you would already use missiles. The incremental cost is lower, they still perform 95% of the job of whatever missile was already there outside of the FSR matches, and they actually do more additional splash damage anyway.

So another option that occured to me, maybe you can tell me why it doesn't work... the Snap A-Wings.

They're like the arced equivalent of TLT in that they are throwing a bunch of little attacks that will overwhelm defences. The A-Wings also have great defenses to repel the rubbish FSR's damage output, and FSR flies so predictably that setting up Snap Shots should be easy enough.

So... why doesn't that work?

1 hour ago, SOTL said:

So another option that occured to me, maybe you can tell me why it doesn't work... the Snap A-Wings.

So... why doesn't that work?

Roberto from SlingPaint actually ran 5 Juke A-Wings with Crack Shot. I can imagine that being a remarkably effective list, but the A-Wings still have a LOT of health to eat through in order to make the cut.

2 hours ago, SOTL said:

So another option that occured to me, maybe you can tell me why it doesn't work... the Snap A-Wings.

They're like the arced equivalent of TLT in that they are throwing a bunch of little attacks that will overwhelm defences. The A-Wings also have great defenses to repel the rubbish FSR's damage output, and FSR flies so predictably that setting up Snap Shots should be easy enough.

So... why doesn't that work?

Because the game has time limits.

2 hours ago, SOTL said:

So another option that occured to me, maybe you can tell me why it doesn't work... the Snap A-Wings.

They're like the arced equivalent of TLT in that they are throwing a bunch of little attacks that will overwhelm defences. The A-Wings also have great defenses to repel the rubbish FSR's damage output, and FSR flies so predictably that setting up Snap Shots should be easy enough.

So... why doesn't that work?

In a vacuum against FSR, it'll probably do well. I've flown a lot of Snap Shot A-Wings and can tell you it's far too reliant on variance to be effective against most other competitive lists. Snap/Crack has more flexibility and damage output than Snap/Juke, but they're still, ultimately, A-Wings.

I have an imperial bomber list that I used to kit out with proton torpedoes and am considering switching for assault missiles. They cost a point more, lose the automatic focus->hit but will do damage to anything else at range 1. I figure this might be an acceptable trade off.

6 hours ago, ArbitraryNerd said:

IMO, going all in on Ruthlessness is going to hurt you in your non-FSR matchups. Vessery rocking it I can kinda see, his EPT slot can be pretty adaptable, but the Aggressors need to use their slot more effectively across a wider spectrum.

THAT and two copies of Ruthlessness can be actually harmful to yourself if you're not constantly careful with positioning. One copy is fairly easy to mitigate, but two just causes that much more of a headache, especially if you're up against something like Dengar.

Should've made it clear that Quickdraw, in that scenario, is running VI.

I've seen it used to great effect (against me) and having to damage your own ship (Quickdraw) isn't always a bad thing

Certainly against some lists Ruthlessness may never actually hit another ship (Dengar & Tel should never be w/in R1 of each other nor should Miranda & Nym for example). But having it for formation lists is great, plus the EPT slot on the aggressors isn't really that useful for much else if you're packing TLTs: don't need Deadeye, base pilot skills are wonky for VI and Adaptability, no real great use out of PTL...

13 hours ago, eljms said:

I have an imperial bomber list that I used to kit out with proton torpedoes and am considering switching for assault missiles. They cost a point more, lose the automatic focus->hit but will do damage to anything else at range 1. I figure this might be an acceptable trade off.

Against Biggs, Lowhhrick and the rest, Assault Missiles are brutal. The problem is that they're bloody expensive compared to other missiles and don't actually help you kill the guy you aimed at first dead, making them a problem against other lists.

Also, Wampa can help.

If you get a critical Result, you can cancel it, causing a face-down damage card on biggs which isn't as a result of the attack, hence neatly ignoring all the rubbish the squad can throw at you (except I guess Rex's Suppressive Fire, if he's there

On 8/8/2017 at 1:19 PM, ArbitraryNerd said:

I don't hate this.

I've been trying Imp Alpha Strike as something decent against rest of meta, and can deal with the Junkyard (FSR), but I've had poor results.

I've been eyeballing Super Dash, but know there are a ton of more experienced Dash players in my meta, and I dislike the idea of running into them during mirrors. I'm good, but experience with a list is huge. Miranda is the same, and I have no experience with bombs, so I don't think I'd be able to get the mileage I need, and Nationals is too close for me to get enough practice in, I think.

Ketsu though... Maybe there's something I could work with there.

I think double Shadowcaster (Ketsu + Asajj) can provide a level of control against formations and 2 ship lists that could end up performing quite well if in the right hands. Asajj also shuts down those Expertise flyers too which seem to be showing up more in Dengar and Quickdraw.

5 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Against Biggs, Lowhhrick and the rest, Assault Missiles are brutal. The problem is that they're bloody expensive compared to other missiles and don't actually help you kill the guy you aimed at first dead, making them a problem against other lists.

Also, Wampa can help.

If you get a critical Result, you can cancel it, causing a face-down damage card on biggs which isn't as a result of the attack, hence neatly ignoring all the rubbish the squad can throw at you (except I guess Rex's Suppressive Fire, if he's there

Wampa certainly can help, but I think I'd rather spend his points on assault missiles elsewhere in my list. He, alone, would take 4 rounds to kill Biggs. Though he gets around selflessness, draw their fire, and Lowhhrick's ability he does not get around Integrated Astromech (card for reference). Four rounds is a lot of risk to kill Biggs (assuming you have Palp to guarantee the crit each round) and Jess doesn't T-Roll and melt Wampa in 1-2 rounds, which frankly is worth it to protect Biggs.

Ordinance is still the way to go, I'm a fan of Ion Torpedoes (in general, I love them) and mixing them in with Assault Missiles could be disastrous for FSR 2.0 or any formation list. But, as several have pointed out, they're overpriced and less useful against 2 ship lists...