Generics aren't bad, pilots without EPT slot are.

4 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

Generics aren't bad, pilots without EPT slot are.

K-wings and VCXs disagree

Just now, Sarcon said:

K-wings and VCXs disagree

I thought you were going to say Biggs and I was going to crack an OP joke

There's also Academy pilot, but right now thanks to accreation in the form of 0 point EPTs, not having an EPT slot definatly takes down the power of the pilot. Sure +/- 1 pilot skill or +1 red die when obstructed are not exactly game changers but they do give an advantage and if you have slots open after you hit limit you would always take those.

A lot of the older pilots not given EPTs (before FFG knew how the game will form out) they are straight up horrible. There are exceptions but only if the ship is OP

There are many generics that are fine; to say they are all bad and left behind is rubbish.

I will admit I find named pilots and their abilities more fun though

RoV

They good man!! Nothing wrong!! I love my light Scyks!

4 hours ago, Sarcon said:

K-wings and VCXs disagree

and x7s

With so many ships with so many pilots out there , we have a ton of pilot abilities. Some of these are not great, others are amazing. Many of the best things you see have to do with great pilot abilities.

The other thing we have is the "Ace" effect. If you want to arc dodge you need a really high PS. And even though what aces are good may shift aces are still really good.

generics don't have these. But they can still do things. Often a generic with an ept can be more useful than a named pilot without. And don't forget how useful blocking can be.

Simple. FFG has put out named pilots that are more efficient than the most efficient generics. They killed the generic ship. Apparently on purpose? Maybe?

The original balance was vanilla generics that gave you the most dice for points spent vs aces with lower efficiency but more tricks and higher PS. It was fun! Generics could win with blocking and flying smart. Aces could win by flying clever and utilizing their tricks.

Now we have named pilots that are just flat better than any generic ship.

Yes you can still win with generics but you are paddling upstream to do so.

Best example yet: double edge with adaptability. Gets his pilot ability gunner effect for free over the ps5 generic. And can trade 1 ps for an ept.

It's a price thing.

Mentioning Five Cartel Marauder (and my personal favourite, 5 Scarif Defenders) is a good way to point out the difference:

• Buying a generic, compared to a named pilot, is something you do to save points.
• What you buy with those points (as opposed to higher PS, a pilot ability and - possibly - an elite slot) is what determines if those saved points are justified.

On expensive ships (TIE/sf, TIE defender, E-wing) that are already in the ~30 point range, not spending a relative handful of points to upgrade to Backdraft, or Corran Horn, is ridiculous.

Ultimately, it boils down to: how many extra ships you get.

Dropping a squad of X-wings from high end uniques to generics, for example, lets you go from three ships....to four. When those three ships fire first and have enough firepower to shred your 'extra' ship before it contributes anything to the game, who cares?

Generic fighters matter if they are cheap enough to fit one more ship in the squad than you would expect:

• Blue Squadron Novice - R2 Astromech, Integrated Astromech - allows you to take 4 really big, tough fighters.
• Cartel Marauder/TIE Striker - Being able to take a 'heavy swarm' of 5 3-attack-dice ships with decent-to-very-good dials
• Black Squadron Pilot - because they're the cheapest non-unique Elite pilot - making them ideal for crack shot swarms
• Green Squadron Pilot - because with A-wing Test Pilot you can pack in snap-shot/crack shot and field them en mass
• Contracted Scouts - Because unlike other large ship generics, you can pack 3 well-equipped torpedo boats in a list.
• Starkiller Base Pilot - because you can theoretically pack in 3 of them, and with co-ordinate they have a powerful unique ability nailed into their basic action bar.

Generally, a generic is worth a look if "battle ready", it costs either 15-16 points, 20 points, 25 points, or 33 points, because that means you can fit in one more ship than you would expect.

I found a way to use generics: you just need to capitalize upon their strenghts and their weaknesses:

- They die easily: have a single elite profit from it through a combo like scavenger crane / counter measure.

- Low attack dice / modifiers: have a source of tractor beam token to offset this: Ventress with title

I won a store championship using Ventress and 3 Z-95s and Sunny (my original combo was 4 Z-95s, but Sunny costs the same with some hilarious effects). My opponents had no idea who to attack first. Lightweight frames were useless during the alpha strike and Ventress also had glitterstim in case I made a grevious mistake.

Overall, it was a fun list!

Generics being generally action economy deprived is why FFG needs to come up with some sort of squadron condition card that works when you field 3 or more of the same ship. Maybe one for each faction.

Personally I don't think there's a huge number of generics which aren't viable; the Outer Rim Smuggler, E-Wing and pre-fix StarVipers are probably the worst off. Oh, and the Punisher (but **** that eggbox).

Really with generics you're looking to min-max your model count; taking sheer numbers over quality and win games through weight of numbers, volume of attacks, action denial (blocking) and attrition. So usually the generics will be naked, or only have one or two very cheap (i.e. Crackshot) or very efficient (i.e. TLT) upgrades. The obvious examples of this type of list would be the classic TIE swarm, TLT Y-wings or A-Wing SnapCrack swarms. You can also possibly include Feedback Z-95s, Hutt Cartels and BBBBZ or BBXXZ.

The thing about these lists is that they're steady hands; when you've got enough experience playing with them you can usually adapt to most threats and even hard counter some specialised lists, but you're also usually going to find yourself losing ships in the process.

As an alternative to the swams, you've got tough-but-cheap generic pilots like the Lothal Rebel, Omicron Group Pilot, Patrol Leader, Trandoshan Slaver or Contracted Scout, where you can combine a number of upgrades into a powerful support ship.

37 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

Personally I don't think there's a huge number of generics which aren't viable; the Outer Rim Smuggler, E-Wing and pre-fix StarVipers are probably the worst off. Oh, and the Punisher (but **** that eggbox).

I'd throw the Wildspace Fringer into that list too.

37 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

Really with generics you're looking to min-max your model count; taking sheer numbers over quality and win games through weight of numbers, volume of attacks, action denial (blocking) and attrition. So usually the generics will be naked, or only have one or two very cheap (i.e. Crackshot) or very efficient (i.e. TLT) upgrades. The obvious examples of this type of list would be the classic TIE swarm, TLT Y-wings or A-Wing SnapCrack swarms. You can also possibly include Feedback Z-95s, Hutt Cartels and BBBBZ or BBXXZ.

This. Essentially, I'd say you want to have two more small ships, or one more large ship, than you'd have had with unique pilots. That way you can lose one ship (either as a blocker who doesn't get to shoot, is out of arc, or literally lost to PS kills) and still have the numerical edge.

Hence, 5 ship small ships, 3 ship large ships, or some combination of the two.

(I keep meaning to try 5 TIE fighters and a Patrol Leader at some point....)

While FFG shows more support for competitive play, the game also aims to appeal and sell to casual gamers. Us filthy casuals can find it damages our immersion in the game's theme if every pilot is a hot shot from the movies, video games or books.

We want generic units. To put it in the parlance of another franchise, our squads need their redshirts. Just like when I play a battle game set in Middle Earth, I don't want just the Fellowship, but generic rangers, or generic orcs if I'm on the Dark Side.

We get our generic pilots for the same reason we get upgrades that don't appear at top tables. It gives us options and lets us have more ways to play with our toys. The more options we have, the more likely we are to keep playing and therefore keep investing in the game.

Generics used to have 2 values: block and # of ships.

The game has evolved (or devolved) into a state where blocking isn't even useful most of the time (actionless modification) and red dice creep pretty much ensure earasure of anything of less than PS 8 before it fires. The PS race is still full throttle.

Back in the day... yah going there... the choice was 2 bodies, 2 guns, and "forcing" splitting fire for 24pts (2 ties). The choice was "is this 22-27pts of ship better than 2 ties". We've moved now to "can a single tie even contribute?" I pretty much only built 88pt imperial lists for the first few years of the game. Many years ago it was already "better", or perhaps just possible, to take a 14pt bid and leave a ship off.

So what can a generic do in today's game? Fill space points wise. But then your combo is weakened or less than your opponents. Filling space doesn't work anymore.

Pilot abilities are so cheap! They have to be nowadays, otherwise you run into the Major Rhymer problem. Its a bummer for ships with so few pilots available, but it's the reality.

2 hours ago, MarekMandalore said:

While FFG shows more support for competitive play, the game also aims to appeal and sell to casual gamers. Us filthy casuals can find it damages our immersion in the game's theme if every pilot is a hot shot from the movies, video games or books.

We want generic units. To put it in the parlance of another franchise, our squads need their redshirts. Just like when I play a battle game set in Middle Earth, I don't want just the Fellowship, but generic rangers, or generic orcs if I'm on the Dark Side.

We get our generic pilots for the same reason we get upgrades that don't appear at top tables. It gives us options and lets us have more ways to play with our toys. The more options we have, the more likely we are to keep playing and therefore keep investing in the game.

I'll add one more thing to this list: some people have a hard time keeping track of a half-dozen special abilities in Epic or mega-point play. A generic with an EPT lets you create a slightly customized list of ships that all do the same thing for ease of big-list play.

Tack on a couple of heroes/aces and suddenly it feels like Star Wars.

22 hours ago, Vargas79 said:

The Ps1 Zealous Recruit is badly underrated.

I couldn't agree more. It has an amazing dial, great action bar and 3 attack/evade dice. I flew 5 of them to go 4-2 at the CT Regionals with some incredible opponents. Just recently took 4 ZR's and Sunny to a Massachusetts SC and went 3-1, round three loss against @MajorJuggler in a fantastic game. By far my favorite ship, might keep using the list even when the Vaksai Title comes out.

2 hours ago, Hydralisk101 said:

I couldn't agree more. It has an amazing dial, great action bar and 3 attack/evade dice. I flew 5 of them to go 4-2 at the CT Regionals with some incredible opponents. Just recently took 4 ZR's and Sunny to a Massachusetts SC and went 3-1, round three loss against @MajorJuggler in a fantastic game. By far my favorite ship, might keep using the list even when the Vaksai Title comes out.

Yeah the Zealous Recruit is actually decent because you can put the Protectorate title on it giving it some action efficiency. For generics to come back they need access to cheap basic action efficiency. X-wings could be fine if there was a 1-point astromech that actually helped their defense or offense. Jess Pava works because she essentially is a generic with action efficiency.