1.) Never interrupt your opponent while they are making a mistake.

2.) If you have a plan that will assure your victory, stick with it, even if tempted by another move.

I got two games in Saturday, and I've had some time to think them over. I won both, by 300 points or more, without losses.

The first game was a bit Lame. I played two Vic IIs supported by a Qusar and a Goz plus Howl, Dengar, Soontir, Ceina... we both deployed slow, so it wasn't until round 4 that ships finally engaged. He had a squadron ball of 2 Xs 6 Zs and a HWK. The Quasar alphaed the **** out of his fighters. By the end of round 6 I had sank a corvette A, AFMK II, Pelta, and all his squads without losing anything.

The second game I was running 2 mc30s with ACMs, OEs and Sato with 3 Gr75s to push a Nora/Y swarm. I took 1st with an 11 point bid. Hyperspace Assault was the objective, he put Insidious in HS. By round 2 Tycho had slipped past his squad ball and I was able to throw 3 long range attacks at his interdictor. He G8'd both mc30s one at close range of the INT, the other directly in front of Demo at medium. They were set in a V shape, and the HS token was right at the point. He was able to pop his insidious in to double arc both ships. I had Sato on foresight, the mc30 in front of demo, and while I thought for sure he would get killed, my admonition had a double arc on the now defenseless front of the INT. I activated Admonition first, it hit the Int hard, the Int was left with one hull after taking shots, so I rammed it to finish it off. This left my admonition damaged at close range still in insidious' double arc. My opponent had made a clear statement that he planned to finish foresight/Sato with insidious before I activated admonition, which had he done, would have screwed me. But he was so tempted by the admonition shot he now had, he shifted his plan, trying to sink foresight with a single shot from Demo. It was the mistake that made the game. He failed with the demo shot, I was able to navigate foresight out of danger from insidious and insidious was unable to destroy admonition (it had projection experts too) which jumped away at speed 4. After that I used my 3 GR75s to finish both demo and insidious with the swarm of Nora/Ys...

Has anyone ever had a similar situation? Where you just watch your opponent throw away a victory?

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;

If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:

If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;
If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;

If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with wornout tools:

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;

If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: 'Hold on!'

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with kings - nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;

If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run -
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man my son!

2 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;

If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:

If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;
If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;

If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with wornout tools:

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;

If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: 'Hold on!'

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with kings - nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;

If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run -
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man my son!

"If" by Rudyard Kipling. I love this poem.

Only ever knew about it because of the reference to it in Brand New's The devil and god album.

To answer the original question, yes, several times I've been midst game and witnessed my opponent commit a grievous error in judgement. In the case of casual play, I would point this out and allow for corrections.

If it's a tourney, I'm going to take full advantage of that error.

13 hours ago, Darth Sanguis said:

1.) Never interrupt your opponent while they are making a mistake.

2.) If you have a plan that will assure your victory, stick with it, even if tempted by another move.

I got two games in Saturday, and I've had some time to think them over. I won both, by 300 points or more, without losses.

The first game was a bit Lame. I played two Vic IIs supported by a Qusar and a Goz plus Howl, Dengar, Soontir, Ceina... we both deployed slow, so it wasn't until round 4 that ships finally engaged. He had a squadron ball of 2 Xs 6 Zs and a HWK. The Quasar alphaed the **** out of his fighters. By the end of round 6 I had sank a corvette A, AFMK II, Pelta, and all his squads without losing anything.

The second game I was running 2 mc30s with ACMs, OEs and Sato with 3 Gr75s to push a Nora/Y swarm. I took 1st with an 11 point bid. Hyperspace Assault was the objective, he put Insidious in HS. By round 2 Tycho had slipped past his squad ball and I was able to throw 3 long range attacks at his interdictor. He G8'd both mc30s one at close range of the INT, the other directly in front of Demo at medium. They were set in a V shape, and the HS token was right at the point. He was able to pop his insidious in to double arc both ships. I had Sato on foresight, the mc30 in front of demo, and while I thought for sure he would get killed, my admonition had a double arc on the now defenseless front of the INT. I activated Admonition first, it hit the Int hard, the Int was left with one hull after taking shots, so I rammed it to finish it off. This left my admonition damaged at close range still in insidious' double arc. My opponent had made a clear statement that he planned to finish foresight/Sato with insidious before I activated admonition, which had he done, would have screwed me. But he was so tempted by the admonition shot he now had, he shifted his plan, trying to sink foresight with a single shot from Demo. It was the mistake that made the game. He failed with the demo shot, I was able to navigate foresight out of danger from insidious and insidious was unable to destroy admonition (it had projection experts too) which jumped away at speed 4. After that I used my 3 GR75s to finish both demo and insidious with the swarm of Nora/Ys...

Has anyone ever had a similar situation? Where you just watch your opponent throw away a victory?

May I ask what admiral and objectives you had for the Imperial fleet? I have a similar one (actually, it's pretty much the same one) and I'm not sure JJ is the best man for it. I tried Hyperspace assault with it and being 2nd player meant the enemy ship could always get out of medium range before I could take a shot.

edit: and if you can tell me how you played it, that would be nice as well.

13 hours ago, Darth Lupine said:

To answer the original question, yes, several times I've been midst game and witnessed my opponent commit a grievous error in judgement. In the case of casual play, I would point this out and allow for corrections.

If it's a tourney, I'm going to take full advantage of that error.

That's pretty much how I run it too. If I'm playing against a newer guy at our store who is still learning the ropes I'm extremely forthcoming with advice if advice is accepted (some politely wish to take their own lumps, which is admirable in its own way). In a tournament or against a player of a similar skill level, that's on them.

People can get really fixated on things that are not really that important much to their own detriment. It's definitely happened to me too, but it's good to always be on the lookout for it.

10 hours ago, Sybreed said:

May I ask what admiral and objectives you had for the Imperial fleet? I have a similar one (actually, it's pretty much the same one) and I'm not sure JJ is the best man for it. I tried Hyperspace assault with it and being 2nd player meant the enemy ship could always get out of medium range before I could take a shot.

edit: and if you can tell me how you played it, that would be nice as well.

Tortuga
Author: Darth Sanguis

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 400/400

Commander: Admiral Motti

Assault Objective: Opening Salvo
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Salvage Run

Victory II-Class Star Destroyer (85 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Disposable Capacitors ( 3 points)
- Quad Battery Turrets ( 5 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 104 total ship cost

Victory II-Class Star Destroyer (85 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Disposable Capacitors ( 3 points)
- Quad Battery Turrets ( 5 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 104 total ship cost

[ flagship ] Quasar Fire I-class Cruiser-Carrier (54 points)
- Admiral Motti ( 24 points)
- Minister Tua ( 2 points)
- Flight Controllers ( 6 points)
- Boosted Comms ( 4 points)
- Advanced Projectors ( 6 points)
= 96 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
= 25 total ship cost

1 "Howlrunner" ( 16 points)
1 Soontir Fel ( 18 points)
1 Dengar ( 20 points)
1 Ciena Ree ( 17 points)

The Imperial fleet is designed to go second, but, of course, can do well enough as first player. I had to choose from his objectives, as he took second player (surprisingly). His options were solar corona(chosen), fleet ambush, and advanced gunnery.

This is a turtle fleet. Speed one, formation flying, let them come to you. If they wanna screw around at long range. let em... 4 reds with a reroll is what they get until you're ready to finish them with a 4 red 4 blue d-cap blast.

I chose solar corona, and made a defensive deploy on the left side of the mat.

This is the end of round 2




This is the beginning of round 4


Then the end of round 5



Round 6 ended with a table.

The reason I didn't go into too much detail with this match is my opponent didn't play right from the start, his ships had the speed advantage, he didn't use them. He chose 2nd player, when his fleet could do more as first. Then bunched all of his ships up... never used his fighters right. In terms of skill, he just didn't really know how to run his own fleet. (he's an imperial main) so I didn't really put to much credit to my flawless victory lol

It was his other fleet that really had me in a solid pinch.

sweet. Why Salvage run though? You have no shuttles in your fleet.

2 minutes ago, Sybreed said:

sweet. Why Salvage run though? You have no shuttles in your fleet.

Start at speed two, round one take a nav token, con fire from there out, it should work out that the opponant will try to rush in and snag those objectives putting them at LR for round 2 and medium for 3+

It's a trap to get your prey in the death arcs of two VIC IIs

1 minute ago, Darth Sanguis said:

Start at speed two, round one take a nav token, con fire from there out, it should work out that the opponant will try to rush in and snag those objectives putting them at LR for round 2 and medium for 3+

It's a trap to get your prey in the death arcs of two VIC IIs

ah I see. Smart.

52 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

Start at speed two, round one take a nav token, con fire from there out, it should work out that the opponant will try to rush in and snag those objectives putting them at LR for round 2 and medium for 3+

It's a trap to get your prey in the death arcs of two VIC IIs

In Salvage Run you get Nav tokens to start, so Round 1 you could bank an Eng token or something. Even better!

Salvage run is by far my favorite blue objectives. With 4 ships you can grab all tokens and be up by 80 points by turn two.

And since you are given a Nav token on all ships before the game starts, you can actually use your turn one dial for something other than banking a nav token

I was honestly wondering if Fleet ambush would work with a 2 Vic 2 fleet. Even if you have an MC 80 or ISD in front of you, that's still major firepower coming its way.

11 minutes ago, Sybreed said:

I was honestly wondering if Fleet ambush would work with a 2 Vic 2 fleet. Even if you have an MC 80 or ISD in front of you, that's still major firepower coming its way.

Yes, however.

The #1 problem with Fleet Ambush in that setting, is the fact that said ISD or MC80 has the first opportunity to Fire .

If you are in a position to put major hurt on it right away - that's awesome. But its in the position to do so first .

Say, its an ISD - The Potential being that, okay, you have 2 VSD-IIs set up ready to pounce on the ISD. If you are already in range, then it fires first, and traditionally, with Gunnery Teams, so it has the potential to smack both Victories.

If it is outside range, it tries to leverage the first player activation advantage, and delays until you come into range .

Either way, it shoots, then it tries to launch itself at speed 3 to dodge Front Arcs .

An MC80 at that point is probably either Broadside-on to you, in which case, again, its still throwing a chunk of dice at you (and maybe bombers, too. can't forget those, even with the ISD above as well!), and then Scooting as fast as it can back out of arcs or ranges.

The first player being the one ambushed makes it hard to not let them get the jump on you.

2 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Yes, however.

The #1 problem with Fleet Ambush in that setting, is the fact that said ISD or MC80 has the first opportunity to Fire .

If you are in a position to put major hurt on it right away - that's awesome. But its in the position to do so first .

Say, its an ISD - The Potential being that, okay, you have 2 VSD-IIs set up ready to pounce on the ISD. If you are already in range, then it fires first, and traditionally, with Gunnery Teams, so it has the potential to smack both Victories.

If it is outside range, it tries to leverage the first player activation advantage, and delays until you come into range .

Either way, it shoots, then it tries to launch itself at speed 3 to dodge Front Arcs .

An MC80 at that point is probably either Broadside-on to you, in which case, again, its still throwing a chunk of dice at you (and maybe bombers, too. can't forget those, even with the ISD above as well!), and then Scooting as fast as it can back out of arcs or ranges.

The first player being the one ambushed makes it hard to not let them get the jump on you.

well, that's good to know. Never played the objective myself, so I don't know all the intricacies of it.

32 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Yes, however.

The #1 problem with Fleet Ambush in that setting, is the fact that said ISD or MC80 has the first opportunity to Fire .

If you are in a position to put major hurt on it right away - that's awesome. But its in the position to do so first .

Say, its an ISD - The Potential being that, okay, you have 2 VSD-IIs set up ready to pounce on the ISD. If you are already in range, then it fires first, and traditionally, with Gunnery Teams, so it has the potential to smack both Victories.

If it is outside range, it tries to leverage the first player activation advantage, and delays until you come into range .

Either way, it shoots, then it tries to launch itself at speed 3 to dodge Front Arcs .

An MC80 at that point is probably either Broadside-on to you, in which case, again, its still throwing a chunk of dice at you (and maybe bombers, too. can't forget those, even with the ISD above as well!), and then Scooting as fast as it can back out of arcs or ranges.

The first player being the one ambushed makes it hard to not let them get the jump on you.

I sooooooo 2nd this.

34 minutes ago, Sybreed said:

well, that's good to know. Never played the objective myself, so I don't know all the intricacies of it.

Most people play it once and then never include it in their objectives ever again after experiencing the beat down you can get from your own objective...

My beatdown was handed out to me in one of my first full matches ever by a fully kitted demo going to town on my ISD and then getting into my rear arc where it stayed until it was dead.

I remember deploying my ISD thinking I was going to vaporize his best ship turn one, then was reminded he gets to activate first... Never played it (as second player) again since.

I have however picked it from opponents objectives and passed the beating along

The one time I picked Fleet Ambush as a First player...

I'd taken 5 x VIC-Is and Motti to a Store Champs.

... Facing down an AF, Neb-B and a Corvette, with a Bomber Wing.

With 3 Vics already at Red Range.

The biggest issue, imo, with fleet ambush is that aside from all the excellent points already made, its one of those objectives I find you just dont play unless your opponent can make it work better for him than it works for you.

Actually, maybe thats just a summation of the points already made.

I notice you have Advanced Projectors as your Tua defensive retrofit. How does that work out on a ship that only has one easily locked redirect token?

1 minute ago, Democratus said:

I notice you have Advanced Projectors as your Tua defensive retrofit. How does that work out on a ship that only has one easily locked redirect token?

??

it's the brace that is easily locked. It has 2 redirect has it not?

Just now, Sybreed said:

??

it's the brace that is easily locked. It has 2 redirect has it not?

Tua is on his Quasar. Quasar has 1 brace and 1 redirect, IIRC.

Just now, Democratus said:

Tua is on his Quasar. Quasar has 1 brace and 1 redirect, IIRC.

derp, my bad

38 minutes ago, Democratus said:

I notice you have Advanced Projectors as your Tua defensive retrofit. How does that work out on a ship that only has one easily locked redirect token?

I never had to use it. Simple fact is I couldn't afford ECMs (by one point) and I figured if it's taking Long range fire (which with the way it is being flown SHOULD only ever take long range fire) those will at least let me move away 2-3 extra damage before suffering on the hull. Though to be honest, blast doors is being considered.

5 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

I never had to use it. Simple fact is I couldn't afford ECMs (by one point) and I figured if it's taking Long range fire (which with the way it is being flown SHOULD only ever take long range fire) those will at least let me move away 2-3 extra damage before suffering on the hull. Though to be honest, blast doors is being considered.

I'd definitely opt for RBD over AP on the Quasar.