So I've worked out what I believe to be a nice set of rules for Jedi in the Clone Wars era, but I'm still working on the best way to add Clone commanders and bounty hunter/mercenaries.

Something impotant to consider is that the Clone wars arnt your usual Force and Destiny game- it's actually closer to Age of Rebellion, with cool jedi powers. With that said, though jedi may track morality, it's Duty that is the primary advancment tool.

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Clone Wars Character Creation

250 XP, 500c plus Contribution Rank 1,2,3 items.

Everyone starts at 50 morality, 20 duty, but gains XP/Credits from dropping Duty.

“Jedi” must buy at least 1 rank of (parry or reflect), 1 rank of Lore, and 1 rank of Discipline

The “Jedi Order” mentor grants the basic Sence, Move, Enhance and Influence powers for free, but no other power discounts. You also get a Jedi Order Ilium saber. (see below) FR 2 may call themselves Padawons, FR 3 may call themselves Knights.

A Clone is a human. Clones cannot benefit from the Jedi Order mentor effect, but do not need to pay for military grade weapons or modifications. (subject to sanity-check by DM)

Those who are not Jedi or clones get an extra 10,000c, and 5 free ranks of Sound Investments for as long as they work with the Republic.

Jedi Order Ilium Lightsaber (if chosen as your starting gear) is created using the rules in the Sentinal book, with the assistance of a caretaker droid with 4 mechanics, and appropriate specialist tools that grant +1 success and +1 advantage. You may also “unlock” two modifications of your crystal per force rating, without rolling.

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Seems reasonable at first glance

My thought on this (based on discussions I had with friends) is to just use the rules for Knight Level characters, and that Jedi PCs are considered Padawans and get a free bump to their Force Rating, starting out at Force Rating 2. A 150XP over starting XP can go a long way if the player doesn't have to fret that much about getting to Force Rating 2, and given the PCs have been trained since childhood being able to start with a better Force Rating makes sense.

For the non-Jedi PCs, having 9000 credits to play with gives them plenty to buy laminate armor (i.e. clone trooper armor) with enhanced optics suite and helmet comlink attachments, a blaster rifle with an augmented spin barrel attachment, and basic gear such as a comlink, extra reloads, a few stimpacks, and a utility belt with plenty left over for additional gear as desired.

I'm not crazy on the idea of Jedi PCs under the OP's suggestion guidelines getting what amounts to 40 bonus XP on top of what they begin play with in the form of four rather useful Force powers for free. There's also the matter that the Jedi PCs generally won't need much in the way of extra equipment since they're already starting play with their most important weapon (a lightsaber) for free, so they could easily use that 20 Duty for another +10XP. My suggestion regarding Mentors is that you stick with the rules in the corebook, and that the PCs just get a 5XP discount on the powers they purchase.

I'd also suggest that you use the Duty rules as outlined in the AoR rulebook, with a character's starting Duty being based upon the group size. I also wouldn't let them start out with any Contribution Ranks, as those reflect that the PCs have made substantial contributions to the Republic war effort. Given that the items that can be selected with Contribution Rank increases are determined using 3 plus Rank to set the maximum Rarity value, being able to start with an item that's Rarity 7 or less without concern for cost or if it's restricted is quite a boon, especially for a starting group.

Honestly, I think people overthink the whole issue. It's not like characters made with RAW are unplayable or anything, it's just that everybody puts what they see on screen on a pedestal.

Sure, historically, a Jedi from the Clone Wars would have more training than your average PC. Does that actually matter, though? Is it really necessary?

1 hour ago, Blackbird888 said:

Does that actually matter, though? Is it really necessary?

If you want your play experience to replicate what's seen on screen in the show, yes.

3 hours ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

I'm not crazy on the idea of Jedi PCs under the OP's suggestion guidelines getting what amounts to 40 bonus XP on top of what they begin play with in the form of four rather useful Force powers for free.

20 bonus XP over a regular mentor, in exchange for not stepping on other force traditions toes by removing the cost reduction for Seek, Heal, Battlemind, Protect, Bind, Misdirect, Forsee, Suppress, Imbue, Ebb/flow, Manipulate, Wardes Foresight and Farsight.

The Drawback to the Jedi Order mentorship is, If it's not in their archives, it DOESNT EXIST to them. (though I might add Ebb/flow to the jedi list) There really isnt much variation in the Order's force powers- Certiantly not as much Seek, Heal and Protect in low level jedi that you usually see in a FaD campaign, and when you do see it in the Clone Wars, it's always a notable NPC who cannot teach what they know.

6 hours ago, Stan Fresh said:

If you want your play experience to replicate what's seen on screen in the show, yes.

Not really, no, depending on your certain point of view.

If you start at TPM, it's doable at RAW Knight Level with relatively minor accommodation.

The thing is, to do it at that level you have to assume three key things:

1) XP is earned and spent pretty regularly (roughly every act) to allow a character to get things as they go instead of needing it all from day one.

2) You interpret rolls and require checks in a way to make the action work, working in flashy effects as advantage and triumph instead of a dozen smaller checks.

3) You set difficulty to match the players, so they can succeed.

Do those, and it'll work. The real problem though is doing all those things requires the GM and players to see the players as being the same as those epic film heroes. That's not always an easy thing to do....

Yea, don't see the need for anything special beyond whatever bonus starting xp and creds you need to give to put the PCs at a level of capabilities you envision.

Knight Level should do it, but if you want to have Plo Kloon and Ashoka running around then yea, you'll need to give them more.

49 minutes ago, Ghostofman said:

If you start at TPM

You mean starting ten years earlier? I don't.think "play something else first" is the best answer to making a Clone Wars campaign work.

5 hours ago, Rakaydos said:

20 bonus XP over a regular mentor, in exchange for not stepping on other force traditions toes by removing the cost reduction for Seek, Heal, Battlemind, Protect, Bind, Misdirect, Forsee, Suppress, Imbue, Ebb/flow, Manipulate, Wardes Foresight and Farsight.

The Drawback to the Jedi Order mentorship is, If it's not in their archives, it DOESNT EXIST to them. (though I might add Ebb/flow to the jedi list) There really isnt much variation in the Order's force powers- Certiantly not as much Seek, Heal and Protect in low level jedi that you usually see in a FaD campaign, and when you do see it in the Clone Wars, it's always a notable NPC who cannot teach what they know.

That's just it, is the default mentor is generally assumed to have been trained in the Jedi tradition. To say nothing of the Jedi generally are regarded as being the experts on matters pertaining to the Force. While we only see the Jedi of the film use a small selection of powers, as you delve into the general lore you see that there are members that make use of a variety of other powers

Plus, the so-called "drawback" you listed really isn't much of a drawback, especially not in comparison to the Force traditions established in Disciples in Harmony, which either change the way a number of Force powers operate for characters within that tradition (Gand Findsman) or generates Conflict in situations that other PCs wouldn't (Baran Do Sages and Dagoyan Masters). You're pretty much handing out the four basic Force powers for nothing, with the only alleged "drawback" (and I use that term very loosely) being that PCs won't get the discount on powers they may well not have much interest in buying in the first place.

I've been trying out Knight Level with Requirements (FR2+ AND (parry or reflect) meaning that unless you're a Nimian Disciple or Protector, you're multiclassed; 20 points of mandatory basic powers (Move, sence, enhance, influence with mentor); and basic skill requuiremts of 1 discipline and 1 lore) and it works out for low padawon play, having "Wasted" enough points meeting requirements to run through newbie adventures like Onslaut at Arda.

For this, I'm aiming at high padawon/low knight, able to run through high level AoR adventures. An extra 100 XP and making the 20 XP of force powers free makes the low knight plausable, and hopefully doesnt make the high padawon too much more competent than their master.

1 minute ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

That's just it, is the default mentor is generally assumed to have been trained in the Jedi tradition. To say nothing of the Jedi generally are regarded as being the experts on matters pertaining to the Force. While we only see the Jedi of the film use a small selection of powers, as you delve into the general lore you see that there are members that make use of a variety of other powers

Plus, the so-called "drawback" you listed really isn't much of a drawback, especially not in comparison to the Force traditions established in Disciples in Harmony, which either change the way a number of Force powers operate for characters within that tradition (Gand Findsman) or generates Conflict in situations that other PCs wouldn't (Baran Do Sages and Dagoyan Masters). You're pretty much handing out the four basic Force powers for nothing, with the only alleged "drawback" (and I use that term very loosely) being that PCs won't get the discount on powers they may well not have much interest in buying in the first place.

It does slant players toward playing jedi, yes. This is by design- The clone wars were all about the jedi.

I'm thinking about making the drawback more severe, but not in a way that affects playing a clone war era jedi. If you play to the steriotype, you get a good deal on your abilities..

If you really want to slant the players towards being Jedi, simply advise them that the focus of the campaign is that the characters are members of the Grand Army of the Republic, which means they're either Clone Troopers or active members of the Jedi Order, with the caveat that Jedi training means you're going to need to have at least two or three of a specific list of powers to reflect the standardized training that all Jedi Padawans have received.

It's not unheard for GMs to advise their players, "okay folks, this is the sort of campaign I want to run, so I'd like you to build your characters appropriately and within these guidelines." For instance, a GM informing his group that he's looking to run a game of Mutants and Masterminds as a light-hearted, four-color Silver Age romp would be will within his rights to turn down a character in the vein of Deadpool or the Punisher or something that would make Rob Liefeld and Zach Snyder squee in collective joy as simply not being a fit for that campaign, and for the player to try again.

Unless your players are argumentative jerks who will build characters contrary to what would fit the campaign you have in mind just to spite you, simply asking them "hey guys, I'm asking that when you make Jedi characters for this campaign, make sure they hit these general requirements" without having to twist the rules or directly shoehorn what Force powers are available to the PCs in order to enforce that campaign structure.

As I mentioned elsewhere, I dont feel the standard mentor reflects how rare Healing and Seek are in the jedi order, compared to how useful they are in this RPG. This change is taking away the discount for taking those powers. (If Mace Windu wasnt seen doing the mind trick, I'd take Influence off the list too, and have Obiwon and anakin spend their own points for the power.)

Regardless, this thread is about a special alternate start. Simply saying "Let the the GM handle it" is not the point. The point is to codify a "good clone wars character", even if it's a power creep over a good non clone wars character.

I am open to a stronger drawback on the Jedi Order, though. Any suggestions?

23 minutes ago, Rakaydos said:

As I mentioned elsewhere, I dont feel the standard mentor reflects how rare Healing and Seek are in the jedi order, compared to how useful they are in this RPG. This change is taking away the discount for taking those powers. (If Mace Windu wasnt seen doing the mind trick, I'd take Influence off the list too, and have Obiwon and anakin spend their own points for the power.)

Regardless, this thread is about a special alternate start. Simply saying "Let the the GM handle it" is not the point. The point is to codify a "good clone wars character", even if it's a power creep over a good non clone wars character.

I am open to a stronger drawback on the Jedi Order, though. Any suggestions?

Perhaps double the amount of strain and conflict from using Dark Side pips? Jedi focus so hard on sticking to the light that the use of Dark Side pips should be a bit more punishing. Not to mention Jedi tend to go from Light Side to raving evil pretty easily (Quinlan Vos, Anakin Skywalker, Pong Krell, Barriss Offee, ect.). Granted, that's not really an XP-related drawback.

20 minutes ago, Underachiever599 said:

Perhaps double the amount of strain and conflict from using Dark Side pips? Jedi focus so hard on sticking to the light that the use of Dark Side pips should be a bit more punishing. Not to mention Jedi tend to go from Light Side to raving evil pretty easily (Quinlan Vos, Anakin Skywalker, Pong Krell, Barriss Offee, ect.). Granted, that's not really an XP-related drawback.

I don't think they did. There is not much lightside about using clone soldiers to fight to force others to do things your way.

17 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

I don't think they did. There is not much lightside about using clone soldiers to fight to force others to do things your way.

So your stance is that the Jedi had basically all fallen to the Dark Side during the Clone Wars, instead of just having been influenced by it?

All? no. But a large percentage did. I think few remained paragons. Which I think was Palpatines plan all along. And I dont think their perspective is so easy. Standing in their shoes they did not really have any good options.

Kind of a which terrible thing are you going to do?

18 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

All? no. But a large percentage did. I think few remained paragons. Which I think was Palpatines plan all along. And I dont think their perspective is so easy. Standing in their shoes they did not really have any good options.

Kind of a which terrible thing are you going to do?

"What? He was going to blow up the ship."

1 hour ago, Rakaydos said:

"What? He was going to blow up the ship."

One of my favorite scenes in The Clone Wars.

And Daeglan, I see what you mean. But here we'll have to have a difference of opinion. I like to believe that the Jedi were blinded by the Dark Side, but hadn't exactly fallen to it. Tainted would be a better phrase, in my personal view. They were acting out of fear, sure, but they made as much of an effort as they could to stay centered during the conflict. And really, the Jedi's part in the Clone Wars was less about "forcing others to do things their way" and more an attempt to protect the citizens of the Galaxy while the Senate tried to resolve the conflict with the CIS. I mean, look at the actions of the Separatists, and the actions of the Jedi during the Clone Wars. In so many instances, the CIS was invading planets, enslaving races, and committing genocide, while the GAR was trying to liberate worlds from the Separatist oppression. Sure, they were still fighting a war, but it was a fight to save others. The Jedi were not conquerors during the war. Well, not typically, anyway. So personally, I view the Jedi as being on the Light Side during the Clone Wars, but due to the circumstances of fighting a war, it was extremely easy for them to fall to the Dark Side, which is why we saw so many turned during that time, in both Legends and Canon. After all, it's widely easy for liberators to become the next conquerors, for warriors to forget that they're fighting for peace, and instead make it their goal to destroy the other side.

Like I said not fallen. But seriously corrupted.

That's one reason I want to sidestep the morality issue, and run clone wars as an AoR game with Jedi instead of a F&D one. Possibly even dropping morality tracking altogether.

My biggest problem is to find a powerlevel where you can have a believable Knight (if only barely), a believable Padawon (even if it's asoka-level badass), and a believable clone commander (Cody/Rex) or Mercenary.

Ideally it should also work when flipped for Maul, Savage, Super Tactical Droids and Deathwatch.

6 hours ago, Stan Fresh said:

You mean starting ten years earlier? I don't.think "play something else first" is the best answer to making a Clone Wars campaign work.

Lol, no. I meant as far as what you see on screen. Using RAW Knight Level you can do pretty much everything you see in TPM. And that's certainly "Jedi" stuff.

But that's kinda the point.

You see years of unspoken action and tons of XP...

I don't, because there doesn't need to be if the GM/players sufficiently leverage the system and are willing to accept that the players and someone like Obi-wan are supposed to be of roughly equivalent power.

But that's the rub, that's what you'll always have trouble agreeing on. If a PC and Obi wan, both at the same leg of their respective campaigns met and got in a fight, would the player be able to win?

2 hours ago, Ghostofman said:

If a PC and Obi wan, both at the same leg of their respective campaigns met and got in a fight, would the player be able to win?

Of course.

I'd steer clear of "mandatory" powers and skills ranks. A lot of what you see on screen can be handled by whims of the narrative dice. You don't need the Move power to telekinetically hurl a battle droid off a cliff—just a few Advantage to off a minion in a group. And an "undisciplined" Jedi Padawan is just good storytelling!

Also I like your idea of getting rid of Morality for your Jedi. The whole point of the Clone Wars is that it was the downfall of the entire Jedi Order. The Order itself is already falling. So that's your backdrop. I don't think there are any paragons in the Order at this point; they are too consumed with their self-assigned "Duty" to the Republic and their new role as military generals and commanders to be attuned to the Force as is their ideal.

(That isn't to say that you can't fall to the dark side, or be a paragon of the light, but such a transformation would likely necessitate leaving the Republic and, sadly, the Jedi Order—cf. Pong Krell, Bariss Ofee, and Ahsoka Tano)