As was said above, Rules Reference pages 2-3, under Attachment Cards.

10 hours ago, Gaffa said:

Once your opponent takes control of your character which has any attachments with the limitation "attach only to a character you control," you are no longer controlling them, so those attachments are discarded.

Can't say I agree with this interpretation. It hinges on whether or not the word "attach" is a verb indicating playing an attachment on a character, or a constant state of attachment to a particular game element. I see nothing in the rules under the word "attach", only "attachment". I personally would interpret it as the former, that the restriction "Attach only to ...." is a PLAY restriction, defined on page 12 of the rules. If the card did say "Can only be attached to...", I would likely go with the latter interpretation.

Long story short, I believe this does need clarifying, but I am certainly leaning towards Way of the Dragon and Grasp of Earth NOT dropping off the character if the character changes control.

4 minutes ago, Casanunda said:

Long story short, I believe this does need clarifying, but I am certainly leaning towards Way of the Dragon and Grasp of Earth NOT dropping off the character if the character changes control.

It's the same way attachments work in all their other LCGs. I'll be very surprised if they rule it to be different just for this game.

16 minutes ago, Gaffa said:

It's the same way attachments work in all their other LCGs. I'll be very surprised if they rule it to be different just for this game.

I play all the LCGs, could you give me a specific example?

What? In other LCGs, the restrictions only apply when attaching the card, not after it is attached.

Lord of the Rings, for example, a cards says "Attach to a Gondor Ally". If the Ally loses his Gondor trait, the attachment stays on it - it doesn't gets discarded, returned to hand, whatever. "Attach only to a character you control" works the same way.

Same thing with L5R. "Attach to a Shugenja you control" doesn't mean that you discard the attachment if the character loses its Shugenja trait. Likewise, an "Attach only to a character you control" card will not be discarded if the character changes from one controller to another.

If the attachments "doesn't change control if the attached character changes control", this means that:

1) You cannot attach any "attach to a character you control" items on it (because you don't control it);
2) Your opponent cannot use the action on it (because you can only use actions on cards under your control and the item is still under your control, not his/hers);
3) Since the attachment doesn't change control, you can use its actions, but cannot use the character attached anymore (actions or commiting to conflits) until its control changes back to you.

The "If a situation arises in which an attachment is not legally attached, discard the attachment." bit probably refer to situations like the character attached being discarded, or gaining an ability like "Cannot have any attachments".

1 hour ago, Gaffa said:

As was said above, Rules Reference pages 2-3, under Attachment Cards.

I see two sectioms Game Overview and Using this book. Also a picture of a tattooed wanderer.

Obviously I am missing something. Did I get a different Rules Reference?

7 minutes ago, Devin-the-Poet said:

I see two sectioms Game Overview and Using this book. Also a picture of a tattooed wanderer.

Obviously I am missing something. Did I get a different Rules Reference?

That's the Learn to Play book. The Rules reference is the other, posted on L5R "Support" portion of official page.

15 minutes ago, Arkano said:

What? In other LCGs, the restrictions only apply when attaching the card, not after it is attached.

Lord of the Rings, for example, a cards says "Attach to a Gondor Ally". If the Ally loses his Gondor trait, the attachment stays on it - it doesn't gets discarded, returned to hand, whatever. "Attach only to a character you control" works the same way.

This was my understanding as well. I thought perhaps I'd missed a recent AGoT ruling, since I haven't been keeping up with that game.

3 minutes ago, Arkano said:

That's the Learn to Play book. The Rules reference is the other, posted on L5R "Support" portion of official page.

Thank you. While it looks like I had downloaded both one had all but disappeared.

Initiating Abilities/ Playing Cards
Whenever a player wishes to play a card or initiate a triggered
ability, that player first declares his or her intent (and shows
the card to be used, if necessary). There are two preliminary
confirmations that must be made before the process may
begin. These are:
1. Check play restrictions and verify the existence of eligible
targets: can the card be played, or the ability initiated, at
this time? If the play restrictions are not met, or there are no
eligible targets for the ability, the process cannot proceed.
......

I see "Attach to a character you control" as a play restriction, and would have the above rule applied.

I can see no reference to a continuous check, in the L5R Rules Reference, nor the AGoT one.

Has there been an official ruling that can be linked to?

4 hours ago, Bayushi Shunsuke said:

Initiating Abilities/ Playing Cards
Whenever a player wishes to play a card or initiate a triggered
ability, that player first declares his or her intent (and shows
the card to be used, if necessary). There are two preliminary
confirmations that must be made before the process may
begin. These are:
1. Check play restrictions and verify the existence of eligible
targets: can the card be played, or the ability initiated, at
this time? If the play restrictions are not met, or there are no
eligible targets for the ability, the process cannot proceed.
......

I see "Attach to a character you control" as a play restriction, and would have the above rule applied.

I can see no reference to a continuous check, in the L5R Rules Reference, nor the AGoT one.

Has there been an official ruling that can be linked to?

I interpret the rules reference as you check for play restrictions when 'playing' a card; and separately check for ability requirements when using an ability. The 'Play and Put into Play' section supports this, as a card that is 'put into play' bypasses play restrictions, which to me means that you check for play restrictions when playing, and there's not a constant check to see if cards meet their play restrictions.

My only concern is that I am making an assumption (albeit a very safe assumption) that "Attach to a card you control" is a play restriction.

"Play restriction" appears multiple times throughout the Rules Reference, but no examples are given.

Basin English says that "Attach to a card you control" is a restriction, but I've known too many games to ignore English.

9 hours ago, Arkano said:

What? In other LCGs, the restrictions only apply when attaching the card, not after it is attached.

Lord of the Rings, for example, a cards says "Attach to a Gondor Ally". If the Ally loses his Gondor trait, the attachment stays on it - it doesn't gets discarded, returned to hand, whatever. "Attach only to a character you control" works the same way.

Same thing with L5R. "Attach to a Shugenja you control" doesn't mean that you discard the attachment if the character loses its Shugenja trait. Likewise, an "Attach only to a character you control" card will not be discarded if the character changes from one controller to another.

If the attachments "doesn't change control if the attached character changes control", this means that:

1) You cannot attach any "attach to a character you control" items on it (because you don't control it);
2) Your opponent cannot use the action on it (because you can only use actions on cards under your control and the item is still under your control, not his/hers);
3) Since the attachment doesn't change control, you can use its actions, but cannot use the character attached anymore (actions or commiting to conflits) until its control changes back to you.

The "If a situation arises in which an attachment is not legally attached, discard the attachment." bit probably refer to situations like the character attached being discarded, or gaining an ability like "Cannot have any attachments".

In AGoT (both versions) and Conquest, attachment legality is a continuous check. The character leaving play is already addressed by the previous bullet point ("If the card to which an attachment is attached leaves play, simultaneously discard the attachment."). This bullet point is about "Attach to a Shugenja" or "Attach to a character you control", in addition to the character gaining "No attachments" (or a variation thereof); the attachment will be discarded in those situations.

1 hour ago, Khudzlin said:

In AGoT (both versions) and Conquest, attachment legality is a continuous check.

Is that a ruling or in a FAQ, because it seems that the Rules References are essentially a cut'n'paste between AGoT and L5R.

For Conquest, it was the answer to a rule question on CargameDB (the example that prompted the question is pretty much the same as Grasp the Earth - restriction by a trait on the character). Note that, while the RR entry for attachments is essentially copy-pasted from AGoT2 to L5R, in AGoT2, the wording of attachment restrictions written on attachments is "X only", rather than "Attach to X" (so no one really questioned that the restrictions are checked continuously in AGoT2). That wording was used in AGoT1, whose FAQ said that attachment restrictions were continuously checked.

"X only" is vastly more clear, and I wouldn't argue against it. Similarly "Attach only to a card you control"

I'm just surprised that "I just confirmed this with the design team as subtle wording differences make is plausible that the check is only at time of attachment." didn't justify a FAQ entry at any point.
Especially considering the cross-over in design team member/s.

Tangential question: Was cardgameDB an official source of rulings? Was it set up before, or in conjunction, with the FFG forums?

FFG bought CardgameDB some time ago (it was run by fans before that). The answer provided in the linked thread was sent in reply to a rules question sent through the official link on this very forum.

I think some official clarification would be nice as I could go either way based on the rules reference. We also need to be clear on what we are asking - do all card types have a continuous check on their play restrictions, or are attachments special? I'm sure there are/will be play restrictions on characters, and would seem out of place if they had to be discarded if they no longer met the restriction to come into play.

23 minutes ago, LuceLineGames said:

I think some official clarification would be nice as I could go either way based on the rules reference. We also need to be clear on what we are asking - do all card types have a continuous check on their play restrictions, or are attachments special? I'm sure there are/will be play restrictions on characters, and would seem out of place if they had to be discarded if they no longer met the restriction to come into play.

There's no need for the clarification. If people look under Attachments page 3 of the rules reference, you will find this: "If a situation arises in which an attachment is not legally attached, discard that attachment."

2 minutes ago, Kubernes said:

There's no need for the clarification. If people look under Attachments page 3 of the rules reference, you will find this: "If a situation arises in which an attachment is not legally attached, discard that attachment."

I'm not so sure that answers the question, since 'legally attached' may or may not cover this case.

First, what I believe the quoted rule means. Let's say a character has 2 restricted attachments already (you're only allowed 2 restricted attachments per character.) He also has a few other normal attachments. Some clever phoenix spell makes another of his attachments restricted. If I'm right, that means that attachment must be discarded, since a character may only have 2 restricted attachments at any time.

Now, in the case where you attach something to a character you own, and someone else later takes control of the character, the attachment might still be legal. Its condition only applies when it is attached, and doesn't appear to be continuously checked. You still own and control the attachment, not the person who took control of the character. But it does look to me to still be an open question whether or not the attachment must be discarded. I'd actually lean towards saying no, it's fine, but I think clarification would be helpful.

As I understand it, the question is "are 'attach to X' restrictions checked continuously or only when the attachment enters play?" To which, based on my experience in previous competitive LCGs (LotR and Arkham function differently), I answer that they're checked continuously. But since I'm an official from FFG, I get that people want to ask that question.

On the other hand, I'm not sure what @LuceLineGames means by 'play restrictions on characters'. I've seen characters in other games with conditional abilities that make them leave play under certain circumstances, but the only rules that can prevent a character from entering play are the one about unique cards and the one about limited cards.

10 minutes ago, Kubernes said:

There's no need for the clarification. If people look under Attachments page 3 of the rules reference, you will find this: "If a situation arises in which an attachment is not legally attached, discard that attachment."

Ok, I see your point, there may be 'continuous restrictions' (new term I made up to make sense of this) and we always need to be checking for these continuous restrictions. Though based on the wording of some of the play restrictions, they appear to me to be one time restrictions you meet when you play the card and may not need to be met going forward, again based on the wording.

For example, if a card read "discard this attachment if you are less honorable than your opponent" I would interpreter that as continuous. If a card read "play this attachment if you are more honorable than your opponent" I could reasonably interpreter that as one-time play restriction.

So the clarification needs to be on whether the intent of some play restrictions are continuous or one-time only, because both may exist.

I received a response from a design team member. Note, by no means am I claiming this to be official, I am just passing along an inquiry I made.

In response to 'Clear the Mind' play restriction - "This is only a restriction on playing the card. It just needs to qualify to be played. Once that happens the window is closed and it will stick around."

Note that Cloud the Mind's restriction is worded as "Play only if you control a Shugenja character.", rather than "Attach to a Shugenja character you control." like Grasp of Earth.

1 minute ago, Khudzlin said:

Note that Cloud the Mind's restriction is worded as "Play only if you control a Shugenja character.", rather than "Attach to a Shugenja character you control." like Grasp of Earth.

I think the lesson to be learned is that you check for play restrictions when you play them. I wouldn't read anymore into it than that, and think Grasp of Earth still fits with this reasoning. If the character with Grasp of Earth attached changes control, you wouldn't re-check the play restriction.